FRED Entertainment

February 20, 2007

Party Favors: An Interview with Cathouse‘s Dennis Hof

Filed under: Columns,Interviews,Joe Corey's Party Favors — UncaScroogeMcD @ 1:27 am
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dennishof.jpgCARSON CITY, NEVADA — Dennis Hof is America’s Pimpmaster General. In the course of five years he’s captivated America by inviting us to get a peek inside his Bunny Ranch brothel thanks to HBO’s Cathouse, directed by Patti Kaplan, America’s most influential filmmaker. In order to promote the fresh batch of episodes now airing, The Party Favors was given a chance to phone up Dennis Hof, Brooke Taylor and Bunny Love’s luxurious hotel suite in Manhattan.

Dennis gave me his history of the show. “It started out in 2002 as an hour documentary under the America Undercvover umbrella . It was their highest rated non-fiction show. They said ‘Oh my god, let’s do it again.’ So in 2003, the same thing. Then in 2005 we came out with the 11 week series that blew the door off all the series numbers. Last night I was with the guys from The Sopranos that do the radio show “The Wise Guys.” They said, ‘Your show equals or beats us OnDemand every week.’ Now what we’re doing is what (HBO) is calling the second season, I’m calling it the fourth. I don’t know who’s right. All I know is they’ve been shooting it for five years.

“You have a documentary, but you also have a soap opera. You got me splitting up with Sunset (Thomas), Me hooking up with the twins. And now me being with Brooke. You have Air Force Amy leaving in a huff. Now she’s coming back. You have all this craziness going on in there and it’s a business that’s operating. And it’s a bit of a porn movie. It’s everything.”

Dennis knows exactly what he’s doing in allowing the cameras to probe his life and business.

“My goal in this is twofold. Number one is promotion for my business. I am the P.T. Barnum of Booty. This what I do to promote my business. And number two: Legalization is the right thing to do. It eliminates all the exploitation. The right wingers like Bill O’Reilly and Sean Hannity will convince you that all working girls are underaged, ethnic, short shorts, crackpipe with a black pimp down the street. They teach you that all prostitutes have diseases and are drug addicts. Why else would they work?”

Prior to Cathouse, HBO had aired Hookers at the Point, a series of documentaries by Brent Owens about street walkers. It validated the opinions of the right wingers about “the game” as it was calling in Pimps Up, Ho’s Down.

“Here we come along,” Dennis said. “Oh wait a minute; look at these girls. They’re educated. They’re having fun. I told Sean Hannity on camera that these girls aren’t working for you at Fox News for 30 years to get a gold watch. They’re going to retire in five years with a million dollar stock portfolio and never work another day. The show changes the stigma. We invited America into our house. And they love our house.

“When I do a conservative radio show, 8 out of 10 people will call in and say “Dennis has got it right.” We’ve got to control this. I look at myself as a guy who is single handedly cleansing this vice. Look at the dirty gangsters during prohibition. Now look at Seagrams and Budweisers. Thirty years ago when I moved to Nevada, it was the dirty little secret of America. The gaming was a dirty secret. Now it’s everywhere. The biggest gaming in the world is the California lotto.

dennishof-05.jpg“My vision, my dream is to close up half the Starbucks in America and make mini-Bunny Ranch Expresses out of them. Stop by for a little tension release. Starbucks has everybody amped up on caffeine. I want to bring ’em down a notch. A guy can come out of his office, go to the Bunny Ranch Express and fifteen minutes he’s back in his office and it’s not so bad of a day for him.”

Dennis has seen a lot of changes in the industry in the years since he bought the Bunny Ranch. In the first episode of the new season, Brooke Taylor calls her mother after her first party with a paying client. Did the women called back to home to share the good news when he first started?

Dennis said, “No. Absolutely not. Fifteen years ago when I got there, these girls wouldn’t tell anybody they were working girls. All that has changed. It’s cool to be a Bunny Ranch Girl. (Brooke) called her mom. I’ve gotten to know her mom. Her mom went on the Dr. Keith Ablow show with her and talked about how when they were at Toys ‘R Us when (Brooke) told her she was going to be a hooker.

“It’s a different world now. I was a very edgy guy 15 years ago. I was a wild cowboy from Carson City Nevada. Now with the internet, (you hear about) all this craziness with dogs, goats and 12 year olds. And you have the predator series on (Dateline) NBC. You’ve got Bill Clinton trying to prove to the world that a blow job isn’t sex. I’m a pretty straight guy, now. I’m a Boy Scout, now. With the sanitizing of this business, has come better girls and better customers. Girls are proud to be here. Guys are proud to say they are customers. It’s gotten bigger and better.

While some subjects of reality shows control what makes it to the air (Gene Simmons & Hugh Hefner), Dennis isn’t overriding Patti Kaplan’s directorial decisions.

“I don’t see everything that’s on there until the finished product,” Dennis declared. “I don’t look at the dailies. I don’t care to. Whatever it is, it is. I don’t give HBO any parameters except to have fun. If something goes on that’s crazy or negative, then it goes on. I don’t try to control the content in any way shape or form. I don’t think it’s the fair thing to do for my public. You don’t want to make a fluff piece where everything is fine. Did I feel good about Air Force Amy freaking out that time and loading up all her shit? No. I didn’t like it at all. But that’s what happened. She got herself worked up. She’d been drinking. She’s an alcoholic and was back drinking. But now she’s back. The sex business is positive. There’s a lot of high energy. I don’t like negative stuff. But I don’t control it.”

Dennis enjoyed seeing the first episode of this season since it does feature his new main lady, Brooke getting her start.

Dennis gushed, “That was her first party at the Ranch that we videoed. That was amazing because she looked like a pro pornstar to me. I had to take her to the bedroom and fuck her after watching that.”

Of course the ultimate highlight of the first episode was the introduction of Tiffany, a new Bunny Ranch employee who had a strange attitude toward working as a hooker.

“The first show was kinda weird with Tiffany saying, I’m not going to line up. I’m not going to suck a cock. I can’t wait to find out what this dumb bitch does in the second show,” Dennis said.

dennishof-021.jpgBunny Love at one point had to finish up one of Tiffany’s customers since she refused to give a half and half. Bunny was taken back by the newbie’s career attitude. “It was an interesting personal choice,” Bunny said. “Some girls decide not to do anal. Some girls don’t like to do blow jobs.”

Dennis chimed in, “Can you believe that?”

Brooke had an even closer encounter with Tiffany when they shared a threesome party. Tiffany however decided that while the customer paid for the attention of two women – only Brooke was going to play. Tiffany reluctantly dropped her top and barely touched the guy on the arms.

“Tiffany is a trip,” Brooke said. “I asked Dennis, did she come in just for HBO? I thought she was completely obnoxious.” Brooke didn’t enjoy sharing a client with Tiffany in the party. “She didn’t do anything. From what the producer told me, she acted like the (client) wanted her more. He did not care about her.”

Brooke is proof of how Patti Kaplan is the most influential director in America. A few years ago, she was merely a fan of the show. She had a nice job in a nice town in middle America. She decided to step through screen and be a part of the action.

“How I found out about the Bunny Ranch was from watching Cathouse,” Brooke said. “I met Carla from the last series, when she came back to the Ranch. It was like meeting a celebrity. I’m like, do you know how many times I’ve masturbated to you? I could quote all her lines. I was a fan of the show so it was really exciting to be a part of it. To hopefully be an inspiration to other girls like they were to me.”

While many women get into the business, few have their early days documented. How did Brooke feel knowing that millions of Americans would be following her progress via HBO? “I’m type of person that if I’m going to do something, I’m going to do it full force. And that’s how I took it doing the Cathouse series. That’s why I told my family that I might as well be honest and go full force with it. Balls out, so to speak.”

The episodes were shot nearly a year ago. What does Brooke think when she sees herself arrive at the airport ready to embrace her new career? “I was completely green,” Brooke confessed. “I watched the first episode and I see how wide-eyed and innocent I was. Doing the sex scene, I was really nervous beforehand. But once I went in there, you don’t see the cameras. I had had sex before numerous times, so it took over and I just had fun with it.”

dennishof-03.jpgAlong with embracing the career, the series documents her becoming Dennis’ new girlfriend. She had never been in an open relationship, but as they approach their first anniversary, she seems very comfortable with the dynamic. “Yeah. I view people’s sexuality as an individual not as a couple. I completely understand men’s urges and desires. If they didn’t have those urges and desires, I wouldn’t be in business. Having been in this business, it helps me to have a relationship like I have with Dennis. It’s nice. I totally appreciate when I can find a hot girl and bring her home with us to share. Sharing is caring.”

A major test in the relationship occurs when Sunset Thomas returns to the Ranch to see Dennis. During the first two specials, Sunset was Dennis’ woman. Was Brooke nervous at the ex-girlfriend haunting the ranch?

“I was OK with it,” Brooke said. “I figured if Dennis had wanted to be back with Sunset, he’d be back with Sunset. HBO kinda wanted controversy, but I hope I didn’t give it to them. Sunset was very nice to me when she was there. It was awkward cause I didn’t know how she would be and she didn’t know how I would be. I think it went OK. My nerves about it came from other people. We knew she was coming in so people kept saying how do you feel about Sunset coming here? Sunset! Sunset! Sunset! Stop relax, it’s all OK. And at the end of the day, it all went fine.

“I think if it happened today, I’d have no problem. I wouldn’t have any nerves. I’m very secure with Dennis now. It was the beginning of our relationship. We were still getting to know each other. It kinda threw an imbalance in there. But I just stayed with what I knew. I knew that I was with him. I was at the Ranch. She wasn’t there. She was coming in to visit. I tried to remain as calm as possible. I think the people around me were more afraid of my reaction to her than I was.”

She has grown a lot in the year at the Ranch especially when it come to exploring her bisexuality. “My first experience with a woman was at the Bunny Ranch. Over this year, I’ve really grown to enjoy them. I’m interested in seeing how my interactions with women are on the show. I know what it is now, but I want to see the differences.”

One of the women Brooke was able to please was Isabella Soprano, America’s Sweetwhore. “I’m in love with her. She was my favorite from the first show. You’ll see me and Isabella doing some things together. We have a little fun together.”

Isabella has made a splash starring fetish films and is no longer working at the Ranch. “She came down for the show and worked a bit. She made herself some money and is raising organic vegetables now,” Dennis said. “They work and do real well. Then they’ll hook up with a guy and the first thing he wants is for her to quit working. As soon as they split up with the guy, they’re back. That’s what I envision for Isabella.”

Another fan favorite to the Ranch is Bridget the Midget. Dennis has good news for her fans. “She had a baby and is coming back to work in the next week or so.”

Unlike the first special where the room negotiations were secretly filmed, the clients in the series know about HBO’s cameras ahead of time. Only one room in the house is wired up with the hidden cameras. HBO’s folks do an amazing Candid Camera job to keep out of the way of the real performers in the room. “We don’t know where they’re located in the room,” Brooke said. “They don’t tell us where they’re at. I kept looking for them and I couldn’t find them. I’m glad they didn’t tell me where they were because it helps me to forget they are there.”

Dennis is in the process of writing a book about his business for Harper Collins. “There’s No Business like Ho Business was the title Judith Regan liked,” Dennis said. He’s now considering Pimp’n Ain’t Easy. I suggested Pimpin’ Made Easy since people want to buy a book that simplifies the process.

People always like to ask Dennis about the Potter Twins. They were his rebound girlfriends after Sunset Thomas. Dennis has warning for those that dream of such a situation. “The two of them were a handful together. You separated them and they were very normal. You couldn’t go to dinner and sit between them. It was like playing ping pong. One would say one word of a sentence with a subject and the other one would pick up a skit from Second City. And they’d go back and forth. It’d make you nuts. They’re so bright they’re silly. So that didn’t work.”

So what is next on Dennis’ carnal “to do” list? “Triplets,” Dennis said. “I’m like the Fonz. I’m looking for the Hooper triplets. You never saw them on the show. But I’m looking for the Hooper triplets.”

dennishof-04.jpgRecently the show was visited by FoxNew’s Sean Hannity for his Hannity’s America series. Dennis enjoyed tripping up the self-righteous Hannity by being a perfect host. “He’s just a fish out of water there. But he loves the place. He’s a man,” Dennis said. “He’s got Brooke and Bunny in bed. They’re wearing scantily clad nighties. He took it in the homes of America at 6:30 on a Sunday night. He stands over the bed and asks the girls “Do you believe in God.” He’s waiting for one of those answers that they back into it like “maybe” and then he’s going to rip into them. Simultaneously these girls said “No!” It was like game over. He had this deer in the headlights look that was just fucking priceless. He had no idea where to go with that. He just looked at them.”

Fans of Grizzly Adams were delighted to see Dan Haggerty conducting a wedding at the brothel. It turns out that this is not a one time thing as another Ranch nuptials is in the works. “We’re trying to confirm a date with Dan,” Dennis said. “I got him ordained. Dan is the official pastor of the Bunny Ranch.” Shame they can’t get Bozo the bear to escort the bride down the aisle for an extra fee.

With the success of the show, there’s been a lot more visitors to the Ranch. Unlike a TGIFridays that’s all about getting the customers in and out, Dennis doesn’t enforce a buy or split attitude. There’s no time limit to sitting at the bar and meeting the various women that have appeared on the show. “Some guys do come and hang out and don’t find anything that they’re interested in. Maybe they want to meet every single girl in the whole Bunny Ranch before they make their decision,” Dennis said. “The guys are very scared coming in there. You watch the show. You go online. You fly out there. The next thing you know, you’re faced with a decision of 30 or 40 gorgeous girls. The toughest NFL guy crumbles in front of the girls. ‘I gotta get a drink’ really means they need a minute to regain their composure.”

The question always comes up that on Cathouse, guys get charged $5,000 for a fun time. And on Brent Owens’ Hookers at the Point films, we see guys have sex with skanky street walkers for $50. I ask Dennis if HBO will ever give us a show that allows a guy to have sex without losing the kid’s college fund or bringing home an STD for the wife? Where are the clean hookers for the middle class budget?

“The reality is this, you’re going to see a thousand guys spend $200 to $600 at the Bunny Ranch before one guy drops twenty five grand,” Dennis said. “It’s better television showing the big parties. That’s what HBO does to us. It’s almost like you’re fishing for whales. We had a guy a couple weeks ago drop $200,000. We had a guy who came in when the first series aired that spent a $1.7 million. He never left the place. It’s a free market. The girls are negotiable. They’re there to make money. Do they want guys to steal any booty from them? No. The guy needs to pay a fair amount. You come to the Ranch, come in there clean, have a good time, make the girls laugh, buy a couple drinks and your money will go a long way in the room.

“Even if you don’t want to have sex, partying with these girls is amazing. They’re beautiful. They’re young. They’re vibrant. They’re hot. They’re skilled. And they’re nasty. That’s wonderful. Sitting around the ranch having cocktails with 30 girls running around in g-strings – priceless.”

It was then that Dennis let me in on a secret. “The guys who spend the big big money, it’s not about sex. Bunny has a guy who spends $30,000 a time, tell him what the party consists of.” Bunny continued, “It consists of just hanging out, watching cartoons, going out for dinner and room service. He never watched cartoons before in his life until he met me.” There is a man willing to pay $30,000 to watch Adult Swim with Bunny. Dana Snyder is the voice of seduction?

Cathouse The Series is currently airing on HBO. I’m not sure of the time, but it’s on around the clock if you have HBO OnDemand. If you’re interested in visiting the Bunny Ranch, it’s located in Carson City – not Las Vegas. Carson City is about twenty minutes between Tahoe and Reno. Tell Dennis you’re a friend of the “Party Favors” and you’ll get an extra olive in your drink.

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February 19, 2007

Interview: Kerri Kenney-Silver

Filed under: Interviews — UncaScroogeMcD @ 3:16 am

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-by Ken Plume

kerri-kenney-01.jpgThe big screen adventures of Reno’s “finest” opens this Friday, as Comedy Central’s Reno 911! makes its way from the small screen to the big in Reno 911!: Miami.

At the core of Reno‘s amazing troupe of actors is a trio whose performing history goes back to the legendary MTV via NYU sketch group The State – Thomas Lennon, Ben Garant, and Kerri Kenney-Silver.

After The State came to a close, Lennon, Garant & Kenney-Silver wrote & starred in the Euro-variety spoof Viva Variety. Their greatest TV success, though, would come with their portrayal as deputies Dangle, Junior, and Wiegel on Reno 911!, which is currently filming its fifth season (in addition to the release of that aforementioned feature). The first 3 seasons of Reno are currently available on DVD, and a single-disc “best-of” collection – Reno 911!: Most Wanted – has just been released.

I recently got a chance to go in-depth with Kerri Kenney-Silver about Reno, The State, Viva Variety, and much more…

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kerri-kenney-03.jpgKEN PLUME: It’s a pleasure to be speaking with you.

KERRI KENNEY-SILVER: It’s a pleasure to be speaking with you. I just clicked on, last night, the interview you did with Tom and Ben for Balls of Fury. It was really funny.

PLUME: Did that work?

KENNEY-SILVER: It was great. It was really great.

PLUME: It’s kind of being put in the hot seat, to talk to both of them…

KENNEY-SILVER: Oh, please.

PLUME: Particularly when I’ve heard such horror stories about what they can be like.

KENNEY-SILVER: Oh, please…

PLUME: True enfant terribles.

KENNEY-SILVER: (laughing)

PLUME: Which I guess, considering how old they’ve gotten, “enfant” really doesn’t apply anymore…

KENNEY-SILVER: It’s so true. We’re so old.

PLUME: No, no, nonsense. They are.

KENNEY-SILVER: We’re like the borscht belt now.

PLUME: You sound like you’re out there touring as The State…

KENNEY-SILVER: Yeah, exactly.

PLUME: In Vegas.

KENNEY-SILVER: Right.

PLUME: When you open the new theater at The Mirage, “The State Theater…

KENNEY-SILVER: Right, exactly…

PLUME: Maybe that’s when you need to call it quits.

KENNEY-SILVER: No, that’s when we really get going I think.

PLUME: And, on Sundays, you do Viva Variety.

KENNEY-SILVER: Yep, for a brunch show.

PLUME: Yes, for the kids. Just to change things up a bit.

KENNEY-SILVER: Right.

PLUME: And to give time for everyone else to go off and shoot some special for VH1.

KENNEY-SILVER: Yeah. We need some more Where Were They When.

PLUME: Why not go back to the 20s? I remember prohibition in the 30s…

KENNEY-SILVER: Of course. Those are the golden yeas.

PLUME: It’s only a matter of time before they go back.

KENNEY-SILVER: I remember you from then. That was a fun time.

PLUME: The whole flapper movement in the 20s.

KENNEY-SILVER: Oh, you looked great in those skirts.

PLUME: Well, I tried. I didn’t have the legs for it, though.

KENNEY-SILVER: What a figure…

PLUME: Did you real the interview we had done with Carlos (Alazraqui)?

KENNEY-SILVER: I did not. I just heard about it. It’s on your interview with Tom and Ben.

PLUME: In which he claimed credit for everything in the world…

KENNEY-SILVER: Of course he did.

PLUME: And he never corpses…

KENNEY-SILVER: Right, no.

PLUME: In fact he admonishes others when they break down in a scene.

KENNEY-SILVER: Oh Jesus. Did Tom and Ben tell you about the jar that we used to have? That you’d have to put money in every time you laughed?

PLUME: There’s a corpse jar?

KENNEY-SILVER: Yes. You had to put, our first season, five dollars in a jar if you cracked up and it ruined a take. You could crack up in a take, but if it ruined the take, you had to put five dollars in the jar. By the end of the season, Carlos had essentially bought us lunch. The whole crew.

PLUME: Did he even have a fee left by the end?

KENNEY-SILVER: No, exactly. He owed us money for being on the show by the end.

PLUME: So was he one of the chief proponents for getting rid of that for future seasons?

KENNEY-SILVER: We just, you know, it just got so silly because we all… you can’t help but laugh sometimes, and when Tom and Ben and I started laughing in the middle of the take it was like, “You know what? Never mind. Let’s forget about the jar.”

PLUME: So, really, the only ones who lost out were the crew.

KENNEY-SILVER: Exactly. No more free lunches. Now they have to pay for their lunch.

PLUME: You issue little lunch cards, like school, right?

KENNEY-SILVER: Yeah. It’s 20 dollars for a rubber veggie burger.

PLUME: It shows how much you care about them.

KENNEY-SILVER: It’s so true. And they deserve it.

PLUME: Sometimes, they even deserve less.

KENNEY-SILVER: That’s true. 25 dollars.

PLUME: Well that’ll be Season Five. They don’t know that yet, do they?

KENNEY-SILVER: Season Five is they cook us lunch.

PLUME: It’d be great if you actually set up little burners for them.

KENNEY-SILVER: Yeah, they each get to cook… and we judge them, and they get paid based on how good their lunch is.

PLUME: So, in other words, from now on it’s gonna turn into a county fair.

KENNEY-SILVER: Mm-hmm. Yeah. There’ll be someone making cream pies…

PLUME: There’ll be chili day.

KENNEY-SILVER: Yeah. I’m looking forward to the corn dog booth.

PLUME: And whoever’s in last place gets fired.

KENNEY-SILVER: Exactly. Well, that happens anyway.

PLUME: But hey, it’s worth it for the funnel cakes.

KENNEY-SILVER: Exactly.

PLUME: Is this what you thought the interview would be like?

KENNEY-SILVER: Completely… Well, as I said, I saw your other interviews, so yes. I was completely prepared.

PLUME: If we were to go back a bit, you certainly do come from an entertainment dynasty, as it were…

KENNEY-SILVER: That’s an interesting word for it, certainly.

PLUME: Did you perceive that while you were growing up, that your father did something that was not run of the mill?

KENNEY-SILVER: Yeah. Certainly when you go to school for career day and you tell other kids at school, whose parents are doctors, that your father is a cartoon bird, it is definitely different. But I always wanted to do what he did. I always emulated him and I would go with him to auditions and watch him do his cartoons and things. Yeah, always emulated him. My father – I don’t know if you know this – he was also the host of Bowling for Dollars.

PLUME: That, I did not know.

KENNEY-SILVER: Yeah. And he also did soap operas and things. I knew that I wanted to perform like him, always.

PLUME: At what point did you actually perceive that that was something that was unique?

KENNEY-SILVER: I don’t think it ever felt unique growing up. I think it just felt like that’s what my dad does. But I think when I started to realize that other kids’ parents didn’t make cartoon bird voices for a living, maybe that was a little bit different.

PLUME: Did you ever encounter any jealousy from the other kids?

KENNEY-SILVER: You know, I went to a party one time in New York, when Tom and Ben and I were at NYU, and someone said to me, just making small talk, “So, what do your parents do?” And I said, “Well, my father is the voice of the Cocoa Puffs bird and Lion-O from Thundercats.” And they said, “No he’s not.” “Yes he is.” And they said, “I just met someone last week who claimed that their father was the voice of the Cocoa Puffs bird and the voice of Count Chocula and the voice of Lion-O from the Thundercats.” And I’m thinking, if you’re gonna make up a lie, wouldn’t you come up with something a little bit better than my dad’s the Cocoa Puffs bird? So someone was out there basically coveting my life.

PLUME: Or it was part of that period when you were just drifting in and out of different realities…

KENNEY-SILVER: When I was on crack, yeah, it could be that too. When I was drifting in and out of reality from my schizophrenia.

PLUME: Trying to trade the information about your father’s career for rocks.

KENNEY-SILVER: That still happens. I have a kid now; I gotta do what I gotta do.

PLUME: Well now the DVDs are out, the cache of being the son of Lion-O is back.

KENNEY-SILVER: It’s back. Are they on DVD?

PLUME: Yes.

KENNEY-SILVER: Oh really? I didn’t know that! Oh, I love it. That’s so great. I’m amazed at how many fans that… when we did Comic-Con, you were there…

PLUME: Yes…

KENNEY-SILVER: I’d never seen anything like that. I had no idea what a big deal that was, the cartoon world, the animation… I don’t know what you call it… That whole world. I had no idea how big a deal that was.

PLUME: You’ve done a good deal of voice work yourself. Do you find that sometimes there is a bit of a bubble that exists, just doing your work as a career, and not fully experiencing exactly what the impact is of, say, being a recurring character on Kim Possible?

KENNEY-SILVER: Like my dad, no one every knows who he is. People don’t come up to him and say, “Oh, you’re the voice on Imus in the Morning.” No one knows what he looks like. So yes, it’s certainly different. We get people coming up to us and saying, “Hey, you’re Trudy Wiegel!” “Hey Dangle!”

PLUME: It’s probably not the best way you want to be remembered.

KENNEY-SILVER: No, but it actually is pretty good, because in person, I can only do better. What I constantly hear from people is, “Wow, you’re not as retarded and ugly as you are on TV.” Which is, you know – that’s what you want to hear.

PLUME: It’s good to have your own kid growing up, and someone approach you and tell his mother that, “You’re not nearly as retarded or ugly as I thought you were going to be.”

KENNEY-SILVER: Oh, my poor son. He is now 14 months old, and when I was pregnant with him was when we shot the last seasons, three and four. And I was big and pregnant, obviously, for season four, and I did some things, like ribbon dances in purple unitard with my big pregnant belly, and wearing half-shirts and short shorts with my big belly and pregnant butt hanging out. And I just think, “Poor young man. This is the start that I’m giving him.”

PLUME: So, instead of a college fund, it should be a therapy fund.

KENNEY-SILVER: Oh yeah. We’ve already started that.

PLUME: You know, the first time he comes home and goes, “Mom, you’ll never guess what I downloaded.”

KENNEY-SILVER: Right. Yeah, “You in a unitard.” It couldn’t be much worse. I think he would probably be more proud if he found a porno with his mom then what he’s actually gonna find.

PLUME: What would you choose if you were to pick out one moment from The State or Viva Variety or Reno that you absolutely don’t want him to see until you can actually put it in context and try to alleviate the pain for him?

KENNEY-SILVER: Oh, that’s completely easy. Me butt naked, nine months pregnant, on Reno 911 this last season. Tom, Ben, Cedric, and Carlos come busting in and do a panty raid in the women’s locker room hoping to find Clemmy in her panties and bra, and what they find is me nine months pregnant, naked, with a shower cap on dancing with a towel. If my son ever sees that, he’s either gonna love me more or we’ll never hear from him again.

PLUME: What is the context that you would deliver on that?

KENNEY-SILVER: You mean to tell him?

PLUME: Yes. When he comes to you, sort of shivering…

KENNEY-SILVER: “You need to sit down. I think you need to sit down.” And then from there, I would just say, “You know what? You remember that nice house you grew up in and those great fancy shoes you always wore? Well, that’s how we paid for them.”

PLUME: Do you think they’ll ever erase the picture from his mind?

KENNEY-SILVER: No. Dear God no. To quote Ben in the actual piece, “There are some things you can’t un-see.”

PLUME: Of course, it’s even more awkward if he has a friend show it to him…

KENNEY-SILVER: It’s going to be ugly. I think we need to sit him down and show it to him before he can get the ugly truth in school.

PLUME: Sort of like when you temper an egg when cooking…

KENNEY-SILVER: Exactly.

PLUME: That’s gonna be a moment. But at least you know it’s coming.

KENNEY-SILVER: It’s gonna be a moment that’s going to continue and reverberate probably into his brain for the rest of his life.

PLUME: Or he can be immensely proud.

KENNEY-SILVER: Or he’ll be immensely proud.

PLUME: And follow you in that course.

KENNEY-SILVER: Well, let’s hope not.

PLUME: How encouraging were your parents with what you wanted to do, once you decided on that similar path in the entertainment industry?

KENNEY-SILVER: Extremely. My father said “Look, I am a very wealthy voice of a cartoon bird who never went to college. What can I say, ‘Don’t go into comedy?'” So they were very encouraging. They thought it was terrific. Will I be encouraging for my son when he wants to go into entertainment? No way. I pray that he wants to be a plumber and be happy and settle down with kids in a trailer in Van Nuys. I just see it… I watch it in other people, and it’s horrifying to me.

PLUME: Do you sometimes fear even unintentionally being that sort of stage motherish type?

KENNEY-SILVER: Of course. The instant you become a parent, you can’t help but go, “Look at him. He’s picking his nose. Everyone, gather around.”

PLUME: “Get the camera.”

KENNEY-SILVER: “Isn’t that the most amazing thing you’ve ever seen?” With your first child it just is that way. I think it is certainly for us. So yeah, there’s certainly that aspect, but then we went and got his picture taken recently at one of those silly little picture places, and the woman said afterward, “You know, these are quite good. We could enter him in the worldwide contest.” And I’m thinking, “What? No. I’m not interested in you giving my son a score.”

PLUME: I love the fact that they’re actually on the lookout.

KENNEY-SILVER: Oh, they’re on the lookout.

PLUME: You wonder what the commission is for them.

KENNEY-SILVER: Yes, exactly. “We found him! The perfect baby!” It’s the Dalai Lama of faces.

PLUME: Imagine if there was actually some kind of cult recruiting that went on in these baby centers…

KENNEY-SILVER: If they came to me and said, “We think your son’s the Dalai Lama,” that’s another story. They can have him, because I think that’s terrific. I’d be very proud. But to be the face of the picture place of kids? No, I’m not interested.

PLUME: It’s good to know that they automatically grade. You gotta wonder about the person waiting behind you.

KENNEY-SILVER: That’s what I’m thinking, with the ugly kid with the zits.

PLUME: Yeah, who’s going, “What about mine?”

KENNEY-SILVER: Yeah…

PLUME: That’s a way to lose business.

KENNEY-SILVER: Didn’t make the grade.

PLUME: Time to go to Olan Mills.

KENNEY-SILVER: Exactly. They’ll take anyone there.

PLUME: “Yeah, I have the photos…”

KENNEY-SILVER: Sitting on one of those fake logs.

February 9, 2007

Interview: Tanya Donelly

Filed under: Columns,Interviews,Trailer Park — admin @ 2:20 am

By Christopher Stipp

Archives? Right Here…

In the end the letter would sit there until I finished this piece. More on that in just a moment.

When I stumbled upon Belly, most known to many as the group who made “Feed The Tree” a part of so many mix tapes in the early 90’s, I was emerging from my chrysalis of musical ignorance. My diet, until then, consisted of a milquetoast cadre of hip-hop, rap, R&B and every bland, vanilla, soul-crushing Top 40 hit you could ostensibly name. It was my senior year in high school and I was, understandably so, teased and publicly harangued for my taste in music. When other students pined for tickets to see U2 during their Zooropa tour I was steeped in the rhythm and soul of the musical choreography put on by Janet Jackson when she came through town in support of her JANET album.

It wasn’t until after I graduated high school, nearly 18 years of age, in the spring of 1993 when a friend took me to see 10,000 Maniacs at a huge outdoor amphitheater in Illinois. You want a definition of “watershed”? That was it. The musicianship, lyrical richness, passion, energy, all these things collided in my body and I knew I had a conversion of some profound kind.

It wasn’t until a few weeks had passed when I leaned of the Maniacs’ demise. Just as I thought it would be a good idea to dip a toe into this brave new world it was all I could do to try and keep myself from slipping back into old BPM habits. You have to understand that it is not a joke when I say that I still hadn’t yet purchased a Rock album, not even after the Maniacs show, once in my life. Ever.

But, it was Tanya Donelly who wrested my wallet free from my stingy pocket and it couldn’t have happened in the most odd way.

It was strange but as I was channel surfing one afternoon Tanya gave an interview to a local reporter in Chicago about an upcoming show she was getting ready to do with her band Belly. During the story they played a clip from the “Feed The Tree” video. While I took enough notice that I’ve never forgotten about it, and this is the important part of the story, it didn’t do a whole lot for me. Nothing, in fact. What happened, though, during the following weeks is notable in that the news segment stayed with me. The clip replayed over and over again in my head. I was humming “Feed The Tree” to myself every now and then when it played on the radio. The tune had such internal resonance for me that Belly’s STAR would be the very first Rock album I would ever purchase in the USED section of a small record store and, to this day, represents where my musical renaissance began.

I started purchasing mass quantities of CDs, eschewing the latest urban additions as if they were the ugly girlfriend I was happy to have cheated on, and I can tell you there has never been a time in my life, from the Summer of 1993 to the Summer of 1995 where I assimilated so many different variations on an alternative theme. From Juliana Hatfield, The Blake Babies, The Mighty Mighty Bosstones, Stone Temple Pilots, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Alice in Chains, to KMFDM, Curve, Elastica, Rage Against The Machine, I was just insatiable. Although, I never forgot about Belly and, in fact, I was voracious in my consumption. From $30 imports from Japan, a special order vinyl that had just one notable song on it that I just had to have and pestered some poor record store owner as to whether it arrived, rough sounding bootlegs of Belly shows, to say nothing of the singles, magazines, tickets, of buying everything at their merchandise table when they finally came back to Chicago, I was enamored to the point of fiscal bankruptcy when it came to Belly. The music just did something to me that I still can’t explain very well without sounding like a complete geek. It was the mixture of lyrics and melody that defied you to listen to a world that wasn’t controlled by Cock Rock Neanderthals who only wanted to sing about the superfluous nature of their “dark” and “misunderstood” lives. Tanya had a grip on these things and, instead, used her music to work out more thought-provoking issues.

I remember standing in line, a line of one actually, during a bitterly cold October afternoon in 1995 as I kept my place in line for a show that would be one of Belly’s last. Determined to be the first person through that door to see the General Admission show, only to recede to the back bar area after the first song, it was at show I learned I had a condition that I didn’t know about: claustrophobia. However, I still remember the three times I did see the band to be on par with the arena rockers I would later measure everyone else against; being in a small club didn’t matter, it was more intimate and I remember Tanya always leaving the stage with a smile, not a sneer and splintered musical equipment, in her wake.

The band’s demise shortly after the tour that year and Tanya’s eventual solo career has been one, for me anyway, of evolution. I think I would’ve grown embarrassed as I reflect on the amount of my spending, my stumping, my need to collect everything, my unadulterated support for a band that just played musical notes and chords if it wasn’t for the book I wrote that was inspired by those two years of self-exploration and unwavering devotion. Tanya evolved as well. She got married to the bassist of Juliana Hatfield’s band, Dean Fisher, had two children, Grace Bee Fisher and little Harriet Pearl Fisher, and still turns out some of the most evocative and melodic that no one I know seems to be listening to.

Her latest, THIS HUNGRY LIFE, is a live album that puts to shame any live album you have in your collection for the simple fact that this is sold as a live album, yes, but it sounds unbelievably sharp. I would dare any casual listener to try and take a taste test of this album and, save for the clapping at the end of songs, try and pick out the imperfections. It’s that precise and it was good enough to get me riled up enough after sensing, again, no one cared about me talking about it in public, and I decided to see what I could do in devoting an entire column to Tanya and this work.

It’s not often I get to talk to someone who has been the basis for so much of my own creative endeavors, who really is at the core, the nexus, of who I hold up as the litmus test for any artist who wants to preen, whine, play dress-up, break a guitar or two or do anything less than make great music and enjoy the station they’ve been given in life. In fact, I count this interview as the completion of a circle she started drawing for me in the ephemera almost 14 years ago; damn near ½ of my entire life on this planet.

She was an absolute joy and delight to talk to, my hand was getting numb from inserting so many “(Laughs)” into the piece, as I played the part of journalist and geeky fanboy all at the same time; she managed to top Lost’s Josh Holloway as the person who exuded the greatest sense of joy while talking to me, a complete stranger. We talk about her music, her passions, her kids, her inspirations and I even manage to take a jab at her procrastination that, unless it was just great timing, yielded the motherload of every Belly nerd out there.

It was at the end of the conversation, though, that Tanya inquired about the book I wrote and it’s involvement of her music in it. She insisted that she send payment for a copy of her own even after my heart sank as I tried to stop that nonsense (I would’ve sent every other copy I had for free), feeling not only like I was the kid in the Mean Joe Green Coke commercial who is overcome with gratitude for that sweaty jersey, but when that envelope came to my house it sat on my desk unopened until this week, only after the construction of this piece had been completed. It was only after the work was done did I ever feel entitled to enjoy the spoils of my labor and thankfully with Tanya’s consistent output of music she is still amazing me in a way that makes me feel 18 again when I wait for that special New Music Tuesday to roll around in anticipation of a new album and I can see what else is on her mind this time.

Here’s to hoping she never stops trying to part me with my money.

CHRISTOPHER STIPP: Hi, is Tanya there?

TANYA DONELLY: Yup, that’s me.

CS: This is Chris.

DONELLY: Hi, how are you?

CS: I’m fine. How are you doing?

DONELLY: Doing very well, thanks”¦I’ve got a new baby.

CS: Yes, congratulations on that.

DONELLY: Thank you so much. There’s a lot of juggling going on in that department.

CS: I just put my one-year old down for her morning nap.

(Laughs)

DONELLY: That’s what mine is doing right now.

CS: And I don’t think she was really ready yet, either. I just knew this interview was coming up and said to her, “You’re going down within the next twenty minutes.”

DONELLY: That’s what I did too. Hopefully that’ll work out.

CS: It’s an odd thing, trying to coordinate their schedules around my schedule. Life doesn’t feel like it’s about me anymore but I’m fine with that. But let’s get into it with the fact that this album, THIS HUNGRY LIFE, has been out for a few months. I bought it the day it came out and have been loving listening to it ever since.

DONELLY: Thank you very much.

CS: And it’s weird insofar that when I heard this was going to be a live album I was expecting something less than what this record actually is. The clarity, sharpness and precision on THIS HUNGRY LIFE trumps any live recording in my collection.

DONELLY: Well, we did the multiple takes of things. It was more that we wanted people to be there while we were recording so they suffered through us starting over sometimes, multiple takes and lots of tuning because that’s what I really wanted to do rather than just taping a show. I really wanted it to be people in the studio with me, sort of speak. It was fun.

CS: Now, was it the ten core songs that eventually made it onto the album or were there other”¦

DONELLY: No, we also did a set”¦We also recorded a set of”¦Because we went straight to Bellows Falls from touring the record before that so there’s actually live recordings of WHISKEY TANGO that we did on tour which I will probably put up on the site.

CS: You know, since you went there, I did my homework preparing this interview and I know I’ve read that in a few places. “When I get to it”¦” “When I get to it”¦” What is up with”¦.

(Laughs)

DONELLY: I just have to give my web mistress just a ton of stuff and let her struggle with it. I’ll find some of the archived material and hand it over and”¦she can deal with it.

CS: And, because I am an uber nerd, and I’ve been a fan for a long time, I’ve known that you’ve said you were looking to put out a children’s album. Where is that? I have a child that’s nearly four and I flatly REFUSE to allow the Wiggles anywhere near my stereo.

DONELLY: I know!

(Sighs)

It’s just been”¦It’s the kind of thing where we put it together, a bunch of us, and then we were really excited about it at the time and then it just got passed over and passed over and passed over and everybody started losing their enthusiasm, which happens”¦The main thing people are saying is that it is all over the place. Too much different”¦I mean that’s what we liked about it.

CS: Right.

DONELLY: It’s very varied but it’s what labels don’t like. I guess”¦I don’t know”¦Children’s music, so we’re told, except for a few very lucky instances, children’s music doesn’t really sell well. Stuff like The Wiggles will because it’s completely catered”¦and this is not at all. This is like regular rock music with just lyrics that are appropriate. So, people are just having a hard time figuring out just how to market it. At this point, the woman who started the whole project, Chris Tappin, she’s probably going to put it up on CD Baby and we’re waiting to hear”¦she’s going to let me know if that happens and then I’m going to let people know.

CS: Good. Good to hear. I am just not down with a lot of children’s music that’s out there.

DONELLY: I know”¦

Well, neither is my daughter. She just listened to what we listened to”¦she never really listened to the kids music, per se. In fact, the other day, just to give you a little window into her perspective on the world, I said as we were looking at something to listen to, I said, “Do you want to listen to The Beatles?” And she said, “Mom, that’s a little baby-ish for me.”

CS: Geez”¦What is she really into then nowadays?

DONELLY: She likes Blondie a lot. She likes Smoosh. You know who they are?

CS: No.

DONELLY: Is your oldest a girl?

CS: Yup.

DONELLY: You should check them out. It’s S-M-O-O-S-H. They’re an indie band of two sisters”¦and I don’t even want to say they’re four kids because they have a huge adult following. I wouldn’t even say it’s kid’s music, it’s just music that just happens to be made by kids. And they’re great.

[Chris’ note: I hope this doesn’t get me on NBC’s To Catch A Predator but I checked them out and this is a really great band of girls who know how to rock the mic.]

CS: Was that important to you as a parent when you became one, coming from a fairly rich musical pedigree, to give your kids a full exposure to different kinds of music?

DONELLY: I was less focused on what I wanted her to listen to than what I did NOT want her to listen to. Our attitude from the beginning was if it’s driving us crazy, it’s not good for the family. (Laughs)

So, we sort of played her the stuff we liked and she likes that. She likes that stuff”¦She’s a big Vic Chesnutt fan. She loved him”¦When she was little she called him “Vic Ketchup.” And Big Star, she really likes, and she also has her”¦she and her friends listen to things like “High School Musical.” She has to have SOMETHING that doesn’t belong to”¦has nothing to do with us.

CS: Of course.

DONELLY: Hanna Montana.

CS: Not Hanna Montana. The child of Tanya Donelly and Dean Fisher “¦Hanna Montana.

DONELLY: I just don’t say anything. You know, I listened to Shaun Cassidy when I was her age so”¦That’s the kind of stuff that you laugh at affectionately. It’s not harmful; there’s no harm in it. It doesn’t really bug me as long as she still”¦she’s good at compartmentalizing. (Laughs)

CS: And that wasn’t difficult? Exposing her to that kind of music as a kid? I only ask because I’m thinking of mounting some kind of campaign to get my kid to listen to Wilco, Neko Case”¦

DONELLY: No! It’s amazing how they get it. Like Gracie loves the fact that David Bowie is always dressed up. He’s cool, he’s a different person all the time, he dresses up, he has all these songs and characters. They get into that you know what I mean? They way that she listens to stuff”¦I find things in it that I had forgotten about when I was a kid. There’s so much that they can re-introduce YOU to when you’re introducing music to them.

CS: One of the things, and it makes me feel old to say it, of being a fan now for fifteen years, the lyrical content of your music, while it has always been rich and melodic, there has always been a dark undercurrent of things you’ve said have been auto-biographical, things you’re dealing with, I’m speaking here presently of a great example off of THIS HUNGRY LIFE, “Kundalini Slide”. That’s a dark song but unbelievably deceptive with how delicate it sounds. Is motherhood helping to make sense of the world, life, in general?

DONELLY: I think motherhood makes me focus on hope more than I did but it doesn’t but”¦it’s not a cure-all for what ails me or anyone in this world. I don’t know, that’s a tough one because sometimes I feel like it really changes the way I write and, other times, when I actually sit down and listen to stuff I’m like, “Nah, not really.” (Laughs) “Not so much.” But, I think that stuff stays in my music more than it used to now that I am functioning for people other than myself.

And it still comes out. On a song like “Kundalini Slide” those concerns, I think, are more global than just my own little”¦shit. And I do tend to think more outside of myself, obviously, that’s what happens, as you know, so that manifests itself rather differently now, it’s more concerned for everyone else. “How can I fix things for my children?” It’s making sure that I function well for my children and do what I can to make this a better place.

CS: And how is the writing process for you now? Do you have the same kind of groove, methodology, you’ve always had?

DONELLY: No, it’s completely different because it’s so much more structured. Especially with two kids there’s no such thing as “˜drop everything and write’ anymore. I have no books in my diaper bag.

(Laughs)

I do what I can! You just don’t have the luxury anymore of saying, “I think I’ll write today.” It’s more like little scraps of paper everywhere and when I have time in the evening, if I’m not exhausted, I’ll put it together.

CS: I believe you’re deserving of a lot of credit. Not so much for just creating the music you did that put you in the public sphere years ago but because you’ve been so prolific since then with your recordings you’ve released with the amount of responsibility you’ve had in the last few years. Has that been a conscious decision, to stay on top of your art?

DONELLY: Yeah. We are very fortunate in that we’re still are managing to get by without day jobs. And I think that being the case it gives us the opportunity to still make this work. As a result, I can still release more than I might if I had to be working all the time.

It sounds like you have a day that’s similar to mine”¦

CS: Yeah, you’re right. I absolutely find that I am able to write better after everyone has gone to sleep. I do my column late at night or trade in eating a lunch to get in some good, solid writing. Just with trying to start my second book it has been very difficult because I just don’t have that kind of quality time anymore.

DONELLY: Yeah, I know, I know. You just have to mourn that and go, “Alright, how do I get it done now?”

And, speaking of that, I heard about your book but I haven’t had the chance to hunt it down”¦

CS: Oh”¦You know, I’ll make this a brief story: It was written about six years ago, it had Belly as a sub-plot but only in the sense that I had the germ to write it when I learned of Belly’s demise. I almost am loathe to admit that my iPod is jammed full of Belly bootlegs, B-Sides, Singles, albums, tribute albums from other fans circa 1995, everything and anything; the band meant a lot, artistically, to me as a listener of music.

DONELLY: Oh, that’s cool.

CS: Yeah, but that’s also strays into Uber Nerd territory. The story itself, the core of which deals with the demise of things you never know about until it’s too late to do anything about, was just too tempting not to weave the band into the narrative.

DONELLY: Wow, that’s amazing.

CS: I self-published it, got a well-known artist to draw the cover for me and when it was all said and done I sent a copy your way, just as a cosmic way to say “Thanks” for the muse-like inspiration.

DONELLY: You know, things used to be so”¦I’ll say that there isn’t hardly any filter between my mail and me.

What is it called?

CS: “Thank You, Goodnight.” At the end of the day it’s a story of people when it’s post-coming of age and they’re in that nebulous area of when it’s pre-adulthood. It was kismet when I wrote it because I did this all right before my first daughter was born.

DONELLY: That is so great.

CS: It’s amusing…We actually talked, twice before this, during Belly’s last tour in 1995. You did a show at the University of Illinois and then a show in Chicago a few days later in late October. The first time, at UOI, you were enjoying a book and I intruded lightly. And then, in Chicago, I was standing in line, the first, from about noon until show time. That’s borderline lame and sad at the same time. It’s damn near embarrassing for me to even think about.

DONELLY: No, believe me. I have had plenty of those.

(Laughs)

I just spent the weekend with Gail [Greenwood, Belly’s former bassist] and we had a big, mushy, sentimental time so it’s completely ripe for this conversation.

CS: How is she doing?

DONELLY: She’s awesome. She’s great. She’s still making music with her mate but mostly she’s doing graphic design right now. They have a graphic design company that’s extremely successful. She’s just busy, busy, busy.

CS: Since we’re kind of on the topic, I know you’ve said that there were so many other songs Belly has done that no one has heard and it’s come back to the line, “When I get the time”¦”

DONELLY: Well, the main thing that I want to release are the demos. For STAR, which are actually Breeder’s demos, which, unfortunately, when I went back to try to mix it down the integrity of the tape is a little bit compromised”¦because they’re so freakin’ old”¦but I think Ivo Watts-Russell, who used to run 4AD, I think he has a CD of it. I’m going to see if I can wrestle that away from him and just put it up as-is.

CS: I’d like to know…When I was looking back at the period when Belly was nominated for a Grammy, when you were probably at that critical and media saturation point where it was nonstop attention, and now you’re at the point where you can comfortably do whatever you want is there some acceptance of that time for what it was?

DONELLY: Oh yeah. I do and for a long time I wrestled”¦there were a few years there where I was like, “Why am I so OK with this?” With the fact that I’m not famous anymore because I do have a tendency to push things down until they”¦start to form cysts.

(Laughs)

And so I thought, “Oh, here I go”¦” where I go around with my hippy-dippy face on and just say, “Oh, it’s OK. The universe has given me so much and I’m fine”¦” And I was trying to just, “Let’s get this out. Let’s weep. Let’s grieve.” And I did. Briefly.

But, I am fine.

And it took me years to kind of figure out, “Oh, I’m just fine and let’s accept the fact.” It’s not like I couldn’t handle fame anyway. I mean, that was so cool that I got to do that and we had such a blast and now I get to do other stuff that I wouldn’t be able to do if I was still doing that. I’m a full-time mother to my children and I still get to make music”¦I have time to write and time to do other things that I want to do and do projects with other people. And, you know, I really do feel like I’m fine and especially with raising kids I would rather do that under the radar, so to speak. I think everything has worked out.

The only thing is”¦is sometimes I wish I could get this music to more people. That’s the only thing but it’s never a lifestyle issue for a second.

CS: I think that’s one of the nicest things of being in the place I’m in today, after following the band as long as I have, for as much as I care about the music and what it means to me, is that I can honestly state that I don’t know of an artist who has matured and evolved as well as you have.

DONELLY: Well, thank you. My gosh”¦

CS: When you get down to it, you can be as experimental as you want, but it does all come down to the music and the quality of it.

DONELLY: Yeah, I know, and that’s definitely true. And when you are in the thick of it and you’ve got A LOT of people involved in your music, it gets convoluted. You can have as much integrity as a person can have and you still have twenty people constantly in your ear telling you what’s going to happen next and your process and how you’re going to do it and when they need it and how they need it. It doesn’t matter how shut-in you try to be, it gets in there. And I don’t have to deal with that.

CS: Did that happen with KING‘s creation?

DONELLY: KING was not so much”¦not so much with KING because, at that point, everyone just trusted us implicitly because STAR was such a fluke. There was no buzz around STAR until it happened. The label was not like, “Oooh, this is going to be so amazing.” And because that was such a big surprise they essentially said, “Ok, just do it again.”

And when Belly broke up, and with my first solo record, they sent me back in a few times, it was mixed a couple of times, they made me write more and take songs off and put songs on. They were very”¦on top of that one. Which, at the time, I was kind of in a panic myself, that was my year of panic, and then after that I calmed down.

CS: Do you think you’re calmer about the process?

DONELLY: Yeah, because music is in a very different place in my life now. It’s a part of my life, it’s not the theme anymore; it’s in there, it’s a part of a larger holistic picture now and it’s not the only thing that I have.

CS: Is the process as therapeutic as it has been or is there a shift in it’s ability to”¦

DONELLY: Oh, definitely. Absolutely therapeutic.

Writing a song is still one of my greatest joys and it’s how I stay healthy”¦it’s like anything you do for your health. I need to do that and I enjoy doing it. It’s weird, and it’s such a great position to be in too, as the whole family is in on it. Dean and I write together and play together and Gracie is right there with her suggestions. It’s really nice because it’s part of our life together.

CS: To that point, on one of my favorite songs “White Belly” is just saturated in darkness but it’s so melodic and peaceful to listen to. Do you take a song like that, something that’s really quite heavy and then try to find a way, pushing the content aside, to make it digestible?

DONELLY: Yeah, you know, that’s a really good question because for years”¦and I think this one of those un-self-aware things that, when you’re young, because I said, “Oh, no, no, no, it’s just natural. It’s the way I write.” And I do think that to a certain extent that’s true. I’m much more attracted to melody even though the stuff I’m interested in singing about is not always pretty but I’m very attracted to melody. But, as a person”¦(Laughs)”¦the older I get the more I realize as a person I tend to, when I’m dealing with something, past or present, I do tend to do it in a very “How can we make this easy?” sort of way. I’m not a head-on, confrontational person. I’m more of a “Let’s all sit down and talk about it”, “Let’s go to the beach”, “Let’s figure this out,” kind of person. So, musically, that’s how it happens for me too. It goes, “I have to say something very ugly right now so I’m going to make it really pretty to listen to.”

CS: And your husband, Dean, is an amazing musician as well. I remember seeing him play live when he toured with Juliana Hatfield, has he been a good sounding board for your music or do you have your own way of doing things?

DONELLY: It depends on the song. He’s a great arranger.

Some of the things I do pop out full-blown and there it is, that’s it, it’s done. And sometimes I definitely will say “Can you help me with this one?” and more and more, I have to say, he has become sort of the musical director when we’re recording. Like he and I will hash things out at home and he’ll actually do a lot of the showing people the song, what’s going on with it, because I’ve always got a baby on the hip or”¦I mean I haven’t handed it over completely but, to be honest, the places where I excel are more during the songwriting process and playing live and, as far as being in the studio goes, I have shorter and shorter patience with it.

I’ll go in on the first day and say, “This is the song, this is what I kind of want to do”¦” and then Dean will hash things through and bring it back to me. He’s become sort of liaison in a way. Which works out GREAT for both of us because that the stuff he loves and I get to do the things I love and it just works out real well; it’s been very fortuitous that we have the kind of strength and interest we have.

CS: You mentioned playing live. I know you’ve said you’ve had issues with stage fright in the past. Has that waned a little bit?

DONELLY: It has, a little bit. I still get very nervous but I don’t get”¦(Laughs)”¦It’s not a pathological condition. I think it’s just more natural stage fright that anyone would have and it’s not so horrible as it used to be.

CS: Any hint that you’re going to be touring a little bit more than you have been?

DONELLY: Well, we’re going to do something in the summer, is what we’re going to do and I’m hoping”¦and I don’t know if I should”¦Kristen and I are sort of talking”¦ it’s SO beginning stages”¦and probably silly”¦but we’re trying to hash out something to experience something together this summer. Manly, because we miss each other and, also, I just think it would be fun for people and fun for us. I can’t see why it wouldn’t work out at this point. It would be mid- to late-summer we’re thinking.

CS: And where is that children’s book of yours?

DONELLY: That has fallen so far”¦

CS: D.O.A?

DONELLY: I just took it out a few weeks ago and I wrote another chapter and I kind of worked on some stuff and then I put it back and, at this point, that’s how it’s going. I have this image of myself, breastfeeding on the couch while I write my book. (Laughs) It’s not quite panning out.

CS: Oh, come on. Did you really think that would work? I could have told you that years ago!

DONELLY: It’s not going to work at all.

CS: Then what’s the deal? They’re like ten pages long. I read them every night. It’s the biggest con in the book business. Just write ten sentences and you’re golden, you’re done”¦

DONELLY: Right! But this is a young adults book.

CS: Ah, OK”¦

DONELLY: Not even young adults, more like ten to twelve year-old girls. Adventure girls kind of stuff. That one’s going to be a long time coming”¦Actually, at one point I was thinking, “I wonder if could make this a much littler kids book?” but there’s too much I wanted to do in it.

CS: Any good inspirations, then? I know you’re a voracious reader”¦

DONELLY: Yeah, Gracie is at the point where she’s starting to read really interesting stuff so I have been reading a lot of, I pre-read things for her, so I read a lot of interesting”¦There’s a lot of good young adult work out there.

CS: Lemony Snicket?

DONELLY: She doesn’t like that….She’s not crazy about that yet. She really wants to be but she gets creeped out.

CS: What have you been into?

DONELLY: I’ve been reading a lot of travel non-fiction lately just because I’m interested in the world right now and”¦I’ve been reading just really weird, weird stuff. Like I just finished a book on the Moors of al-Andalus. Something will pique my interest and I’ll go to the library and read a book on it. I’m mostly into non-fiction right now but the last real good piece of fiction I read was “The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time.” And I was just going to start the new John Irving book my mom just got me, “Until I Find You.”

CS: Irving has been a rather strong writer. He’s produced a lot of good work.

DONELLY: He wrote one of my very favorite books, “A Prayer for Owen Meany.” Some of his stuff I just really love.

CS: Since I only had a couple more questions I just wanted to know, because I’m getting older and these things are getting harder to find, what new music should I be listening to? What has rocked your boat lately?

DONELLY: What a bad question”¦only because it makes me feel so guilty. I really like the new Cat Power record.

CS: I’m a huge Mazzy Star fan and a friend said based on that I should find something enjoyable on the album.

DONELLY: Oh, you would. Absolutely. And, Joanna Newsom; I like all her stuff, actually.

[Tanya asks Hattie what mom listens to. Other than a gurgle and a coo, no new information is forthcoming.]

I know that my husband is a big jazz fan. He is a big everything fan.

CS: Does he have like the big, expensive high fidelity set-up in the house?

DONELLY: No. No, no, no. He’s not like that but he has been collecting a lot of stuff lately. What else? Hmm”¦What else? Those two are really the only things I can think of. I know, though, as soon as I get off the phone I am going to think”¦

CS: Of a few, right. Gary Smith asked me that question and it put me in such a quandary because it’s hard for me, nowadays, to find good music. The musical landscape, when I open Rolling Stone [Evidenced by the current issue with Panic! At the Disco on the cover] and realize that I can’t relate to the mascara wearing boys preening and emo’ing their hearts out.

DONELLY: Yeah, Dean keeps up with it. He’s impressive because he listens to all”¦he just got an iPod and he listens to everything, all kinds of stuff but, me, I don’t really as much. It’s annoying to say but I’ve been listening to a lot of African music.

CS: Really? Like Ladysmith Black Mambazo?

DONELLY: No, no”¦Yeah, a lot of compilations because, what I am doing right now, is trying to figure out what I like”¦OH! I know something! Joan as Police Woman. It’s my friend, Joan, Joan Wasser, who played violin on the record, the new record of mine and she has her own record out which is really beautiful. It’s called REAL LIFE. So, I have been, actually, listening to that. A lot of nepotism going on in our house.

CS: Where do you see yourself evolving in the next few years, musically? To read your lyrics you’ve already run the gamut of life, death, religion and everything in between. Is there light at the end of all this or are there always those things which will gnaw at you?

DONELLY: Oh everything, that’s going to happen. For the most part I am a person who walks in the sun in my daily life and the only place where I can process, aside from conversations with my husband, that’s where I process my anger. One thing I have been doing, though, is doing a project here and there with other people which may or may not see the light of day so I have to stop talking about all these possibilities.

CS: Because it’s evident you can’t follow-up on anything you talk about!

(Laughs)

DONELLY: Exactly!

(I laugh)

CS: You’re awful and I have no problem saying that from the side of a frustrated fan who needs more good music in their lives. You’re a disappointment as a woman of inspiration to so many, namely me.

DONELLY: It just takes me years to do these things but it’s fun because it brings out stuff I don’t usually do, that wouldn’t come out of me otherwise. More collaborations, maybe, in my future.

CS: Well, thank you so much for talking with me, Tanya.

DONELLY: Thank you so much.

February 5, 2007

Interview: Tad Stones

Filed under: Interviews — UncaScroogeMcD @ 6:07 am

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-by Ken Plume

tadstones-01.jpgIn a tenure lasting over 25 years and beginning in the transition from the Nine Old Men to young turks that included fellow artists like John Lasseter and Glen Keane, Tad Stones made his mark not in the Disney Company’s fabled feature animation department, but in its burgeoning TV Animation division.

Stones was one of the chief architects of the “Disney Afternoon” period of classics, including creating the much-loved Darkwing Duck. He went on to play a role – as both writer and producer – in shows such as Aladdin, Hercules, Buzz Lightyear, and Atlantis. Since leaving Disney, he’s produced The Adventures of Brer Rabbit for Universal.

In addition to that rather hefty line of accomplishment, he’s now the producer for the new line of direct-to-DVD Hellboy: Animated films, which kicks off with the just released Sword of Storms. Reuniting nearly the entire cast of Guillermo del Toro’s live action film (including Ron Perlman, Selma Blair, and John Hurt) and working closely with Hellboy creator Mike Mignola, these films promise to be an exciting new chapter in the history of everyone’s favorite big red devil. You can even visit Stones’ online Hellboy production blog HERE.

I got a chance to chat with Tad about what it was like putting these films together (including the upcoming Blood & Iron), working with Mignola, his Disney past, and a few other odds and ends…

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KEN PLUME: Is this Tad?

TAD STONES: Yes it is.

KP: Hey, this is Ken Plume from Quick Stop…

tadstones-08.jpgSTONES: Hey! And I just stubbed my toe, so I’ll be in pain… Give you that extra edge…

KP: That’s good. Well, hopefully it’ll make up for what I’m sure will be a completely banal line of questioning…

STONES: Exactly…

KP: That you’ve heard thousands of times before.

STONES: Only in the last three weeks, I’m sure.

KP: Apologies for not being able to call you earlier…

STONES: No, that’s fine. Actually it turned out I was at a recording session for the whole first part of the morning.

KP: Oh, so it worked out.

STONES: Yeah. And then I was supposed to have an interview and I realized I must have made the time zone mistake. The guy goes, “Well, we’ll try to reschedule, sorry.” And it’s like, “I’m not supposed to talk to you until hours from now!” Oops!

KP: You’re certainly banging the drum in any way you can to get the word out about this Hellboy release…

STONES: Definitely. And shameless. People don’t get it. I don’t get a cut of the movie – It’s just that I want to make a lot more of these. It’s just so much fun and so cool, and the only way to do that is to get people to buy that first one.

KP: I noticed that you have an online journal that you’ve been keeping during production…

STONES: Yes. All the good stuff is earlier in the archives, though. It’s kinda like, once the movie’s done, it’s a lot of whining and complaining about, “Why aren’t people buying this?” “Because it’s not on sale yet.” I feel honored in that my composer Christopher Drake sent me an email to say we’re nominated for the “Rondo Hatten Horror Movies Awards.” It’s just like, “Ooh, I didn’t know that there was an award named after Rondo Hatten.”

KP: You know, if you can get the Hatten Award, then that’s got to be center on your mantelpiece….

STONES: Yeah, exactly. Definitely. Unfortunately, we’re up against Battlestar Galactica, so somehow I’m thinking…

KP: Yeah, but come on – if the Hattens know what’s good for them…

STONES: (laughs) Exactly.

KP: Then they know what they need to pick. Anyone can choose Galactica.

STONES: Exactly.

KP: They need to go with the quality choice, not the quantity.

STONES: That’s what I’m thinking.

KP: I’m wondering – is it an oversized award?

STONES: No, it looks like… about the size of an open fist.

KP: I would think the Rondo Hatten award would have to be at least somewhat larger than the average award…

STONES: Yes. Well, the nose alone, I think…

KP: It has quite a stunning profile up on the shelf.

STONES: Yes. (laughs)

KP: My first question would have to be when your first exposure to the Hellboy material was…

STONES: Well, you know, I was a comic fan, so I had been collecting a lot of Mike’s work even before I knew who Mike Mignola was. Certainly at Cosmic Odyssey, that he did for DC, is when he really started, I think, stepping onto the style path that he’s continued ever since, of exaggerating action – of simplification just in general – and just his storytelling started changing. So when Hellboy was announced, I was one of those people waiting for it. So, I was there from the very beginning. In fact, I pitched it at Disney Studios as a prime time show, because they were asking for new and different ideas about 12 years ago. I did a little Adobe Premier presentation, and I only had “Wake the Devil”, “Seed of Destruction” and “The Corpse” to choose from. I didn’t have any more visuals than that. So, early on there, I was already pitching the idea.

KP: Were you actually pitching it as an adaptation of his visual style, as well?

STONES: At the time, X-Files was huge. It was at its peak. This was 1994, I guess… ’93, ’94. And Bruce Timm had proved – along with Alan Burnett and Paul Dini and Eric Radomski and his whole gang – that animation didn’t have to be just morality tales for tweens. Animation could do some cool drama with The New Adventures of Batman. So my pitch was that this was the animated X-Files. It pretty much would have been the tales of the BPRD. (laughs) They never picked it up, so who knows what it would have become, because I certainly wanted to keep the folklore aspects and everything that was Hellboy. But the pitch was basically an animated X-Files. And they were looking for something more akin to, say… oh, I don’t know – The Simpsons

tadstones-03.jpgKP: So, in other words, if you’d just put a couple more jokes in it…

STONES: Well, like I said in other places, thank god they didn’t take it or we might be dealing with Heckboy or having Hellboy in the Fantasyland castle posing with Tigger and Pooh. I don’t think the world’s ready for that.

KP: No. Or you can have a little BPRD section of Disneyland. Although they’d probably stick it in California Adventure.

STONES: That would probably be a whole different take on the Haunted Mansion.

KP: Yeah, like the Nightmare Before Christmas redress for the holidays…

STONES: Exactly. You just have agents there blowing the heads off some of the existing ghosts.

KP: Works for me.

STONES: Anyway, so it didn’t go there. But as a fan, I went way back right to the beginning – the very first publication, I guess, was in a San Diego Comic-Con handbook, but the first thing I saw was the few pages Mike did in the center of the Next Men, by John Byrne.

KP: How would you describe the creative boundaries of Disney TV animation at that time? You were able to accomplish quite a lot within that “Disney Afternoon” block that was unprecedented as far as Disney material was concerned…

STONES: Well, way back when on the Disney afternoon, we were kind of masters of our own destiny. We didn’t realize how good we had it. Although we had to answer to our boss, Gary Krisel, pretty much any show that we could sell to Jeffrey Katzenberg and Michael Eisner got put on the air. We didn’t have to deal with the network in any of that. And I doubt that those early shows would have been as solid if we had been doing it with a normal network, because they would have been more gag oriented or there’d be no continuity. Where some of those shows really banked on that. It was just a different style of storytelling, I think. Especially when you get into something like Gargoyles. Arguably, it could have been too complex, but the point is working that, with a normal network situation, I don’t think that would have happened. It was just a special time in syndicated history. And then Fox started up their own network and that shifted things, and then as soon as cable got into cartoons, it’s a kind of golden age for animation in that it’s everywhere. But the problem is no one place makes a huge amount of money, so it’s hard to fund projects and things like that. So anyway, on Disney Afternoon, we were kind of left on our own, other than internal notes. We still have such a large fanbase… In fact, those fans are starting to have kids…

KP: Is there anything that surprises you, to this day, that you were able to get away with?

STONES: Not really. Because with the Disney Afternoon, we were still at Disney. So you just gear your thinking “G-rated.”

tadstones-07.jpgKP: Right. But I can’t imagine a show like Darkwing Duck getting launched today within Disney.

STONES: Yeah, just because they’re oriented to a whole…I don’t even think they’ve got funny animal programs outside of Mickey, Donald and Goofy. Just that kind of Carl Barks/Donald Duck tradition. A lot of us loved that stuff, and so that oriented toward thinking of, “Hey, you can tell any kind of story with these characters.” And now it’s just a whole different mindset, as to what they’re looking for. And not just at Disney, I think in all the networks you don’t see the same kind of shows. Darkwing Duck was my salute to the silver age of DC comics. You know – Julie Schwartz would just do those crazy covers of kryptonite stories of Superman turning fat or bald or old or something like that, and Darkwing had that same kind of silliness. It was back before the days of continuity, so Darkwing had, like, four origins at least that we animated. And we would have had more, had it gone on longer.

KP: I remember hearing the voice tracks for “Justice Ducks,” and being blown away, as a comic book fan, that this was being done for TV animation. And by Disney! That sense of superhero fun hadn’t been done at that point…

STONES: Basically, back then – especially with Darkwing – you had a lot of oversight at the very beginning when you’re creating the show, when you’re pitching the show, and then around the third script they all back away and start picking on other people. And then the scrutiny returns when you start getting animation back. So, in between times, I could pretty much come to work and say, “You know what? I’m thinking of an episode with mafia penguins.” Today it would be, “Let’s do the The Departed, but we’re doing them with penguins and Darkwing’s going to infiltrate this gang of penguins, and one of the penguins is going to come and masquerade as Darkwing Duck,” or something. You know, whatever the idea, whatever the notion is, there is no one to say no. It was like, “Okay, let’s make that funny.”

KP: I remember, to my young mind, I was thrilled with the idea that here was legitimately a spin-off series that was in the same universe as DuckTales, and piecing that together…

STONES: You know what? I never worried about that. I mean, by definition he was a spin-off because Launchpad was in both…

KP: And Gizmo Duck…

STONES: Yeah, and that really came more from the origin of the show than it came from… well, certainly Darkwing has nothing of the Carl Barks sensibility, or the DuckTales sensibility, which I feel is very different than the Carl Barks stuff. The notion started out as an episode called “Double 0 Ducks,” which was just Launchpad as a James Bond parody. And Jeffrey Katzenberg just loved the name, and asked me to develop a show, and I just felt, “Spy parody? We’re, like, 10 years too late.” This was before Austin Powers.

KP: “And we just did that episode.”

STONES: Yeah. (laughs) Well, I mean, it was done in DuckTales, and he was just saying, “Spin it off as a show.” I pitched something, and I just felt it had no sense of family to it, there were no strong relationships, it was just parody. I presented it, and he said, “You know, there’s no sense of family to it, there’s no relationships, it’s just parody. Do it over.” Suddenly, it’s like, “Oh crap, I can’t do the easy thing.” And then that’s when I started thinking about the old pulps like Green Hornet and The Shadow, and Doc Savage having a band of people who helped him. And that’s when he really got redeveloped. And until we found out we couldn’t use the words “double 0.” So the name is what kept him alive, and then we couldn’t use it. And we couldn’t come up with a new name, so we had a contest in the studio. The winner would get 500 bucks, and ironically the winner was Alan Burnett, who came up with Darkwing, and I said, “Oh, we just gotta make it a little sillier – let’s make it Darkwing Duck.” And Alan took his money and then left to go to Warner Brothers and write the first season of Batman. Had he stayed, Darkwing might have been much darker.

KP: What were the complications with “Double 0”?

STONES: It was owned by Cubby Broccoli. It’s not a real thing, it was made up by Ian Fleming, and Cubby Broccoli had the rights to all of the Ian Fleming novels.

KP: I never knew that.

STONES: Yeah.

KP: Must have been a heck of a thing to find out.

STONES: Well, Disney always pays attention to that stuff, because they want to sue everybody else. We’d see stuff all the time at Warner Brothers cartoons, and we’d say, “Why can’t we do that?” And it’s like, we didn’t want to get them in trouble, but they would never let us do similar things.

KP: Playing in that superhero wheelhouse with Darkwing… I was about to use the horrible pun, “wetting your beak…”

STONES: But it was gooey and you thought better of it.

KP: I caved in at the end. Moving on to Hellboy, do you think, in some ways, you can look back and see Darkwing as a precursor for fully embracing that sort of superhero storytelling in animation?

STONES: I enjoy comics. I’ve always enjoyed stories of the supernatural. My work on Hellboy had nothing to do with any evolution of my Disney stuff. It’s very strange, because I feel in a strange way that my almost 30 years at Disney was kind of a precursor to my work now. I really feel like now I’m taking the next creative step, and that they love me at Disney because yes, I could do fun shows, but I always watched the budget and the schedule because it was my job as a producer. And I look back at things with Darkwing and I say, “This could have been so much funnier if I’d gone back in and given the extra note and got in a little trouble to push things even better.” But now on Hellboy, it’s like, because of my work with Mike Mignola, I don’t want to let him down, and I’m striving to do something new in American animation. In Japanese animation, they’ve done all these subjects and they’ve done it in the same way and in a million different variations. But I just felt like animating horror and suspense and really making it suspenseful is something I’d certainly never done. And I no longer had to write for kids. I mean, yes, you always say, “We write for ourselves,” which is true, but you’re writing for yourselves with certain limitations. Just like you may use certain slang with your friends watching the Super Bowl game, but if you’re at a tea with Aunt Betty who’s 93, perhaps you wouldn’t use the same language. It’s still you, but you’re watching what you say. And it’s the same way when you’re writing for kids. Yes, you use your own sensibilities; yes, you’re coming up with gags that you think are funny, but they’re a certain kind of gag. With Hellboy, I could really work on stories and work with other writers to say, “Let’s do this for ourselves. For our peers. For people who are adults.” Because that’s who Mike wrote for.

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KP: How would you describe actually working with a property that has a creator that is still very much with us and very much involved, as opposed to – with Disney – largely working within a corporate structure with corporately owned characters?

STONES: Well, it’s night and day. I feel Mike’s a friend now, and I feel a commitment to do things as good as I can, and to push for things, and to really get his vision as much as I can into our work, because we write the stories together. If he comes up with ideas, I generally take his, even if they’re just a different way of doing things. That’s the whole point. He has a unique perspective, a unique sense of humor. I just feel like he’s done this incredible thing on the page, and let’s try to get as much of that on the screen as we can. And I think our second movie is much stronger than our first, and we hardly had a learning curve on that one because we practically did it at the same time. We really produced these two movies as one big movie. Currently I’ve got a green light to write a third movie, and now I’m finally getting to use what I learned – what worked, what didn’t work as well, what’s a better way of carrying off a certain moment, how much information I have to give to the overseas studio to really capture a moment. That’s all stuff I’m finally able to apply.

KP: When you say “what didn’t work,” what are the lessons that you walked away with on these first two films that you’re carrying into the third?

STONES: I realized that if I wanted a really cool looking skull, we basically had to design and fully paint it here. A storyboard artist will just draw, like, a symbol for a skull, with just big circles for the eyes and all that, and that’s what you get back overseas. I just… it seems a stupid little thing, but it’s symbolic of – with Mike’s comics, he will cut to architecture, he’ll cut to a statue. And there’s always a reason for it. We do the same thing in the films, but normally you do a background key for an entire sequence, so that if you cut to something within the room, it’s up to the overseas studios to put a little more detail in it. Because it’s a close-up, and when it really matters for those insets, it’s just another level of detail we’re gonna have to push ourselves here to include in our design package. So, that’s a very specific example, but it’s indicative of a larger mentality of, “Boy, this little moment, what’s the best way we can do that moment and how do we pull off that special effect?” In a live action film you would have a room full of experts worrying about where to put the squibs and what’s safe and is the fire department there, and how big does the green screen behind it have to be. Nothing can just be done casually. You’ve got all these people in the middle of it. In animation, a storyboard guy could just say, “Oh, well this flares up and this rock melts,” and it could just go through. But at that point, you say, “What’s the best way to reveal that she’s getting so hot that the rocks are melting around her?” And you realize that has to be a whole discussion. Everybody’s got to be in on that and thinking about it just like we would for a live action movie. So at this point I think we accomplished the huge part of the task. Now I’m just anxious to refine things and to get more of Mike onto the film.

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KP: Are there any lessons that you learned in terms of character or pacing or story?

STONES: Um, in the comics there’s definitely scenes in the BPRD where they’re handing out mission reports, and we have one in the second film, where guys are eating donuts and looking at photographs as you get the back story. We’ll still have sequences like that, but now I think I will illustrate them more. Whereas, if they say, “Okay we’ve got reports of strange ghosts walking around the streets of Burbank,” we will cut to Burbank, and show some little kid being stunned by an apparition crossing his path.

KP: You’re saying the Hill Street Blues debriefing doesn’t quite work for animation?

STONES: Exactly. You’ve got to put a little bit more in there. And especially when dealing with the paranormal, and just how we pace things. The pacing for the most part I’m happy with, in that the difference between doing a series and doing a movie is that when it comes to a haunted house in a movie, I get to reveal slowly that it’s a haunted house and hopefully in a spooky way so you have an emotional reaction. In a series, we have to just say, “It’s a haunted house,” because we have to get on with the story. And the fun stuff is actually trying to evoke an emotion in the audience.

KP: In the first two films, are there any characters that you feel were underserved? Or you really want to concentrate more on in the future?

STONES: Well, the only character who will be in every movie is Hellboy.

KP: One would hope.

STONES: Yeah. Well, I mean there’s a certain sentiment where people are saying, “Well, wait a minute, how come Liz and Abe aren’t around more?” Well, in the first movie, Liz and Abe were barely in it. They were in the first sequence, and then on the end of a telephone call. And because we felt like we’re gonna be dealing with this weird Japanese world, let’s have our world more normal by just having Kate Corrigan and another human agent. Then we were short and we had to come up with more material, and Abe and Liz got their own little subplot, which has some of the coolest moments in the movie. Certainly some of the best personality moments in the movie. There’s also the feeling that Liz should use her fire powers more. And we had to say, “She’s not the human torch.” The series of comics and the films are called Hellboy for a reason. Not Hellboy & Friends, or Hellboy and the Amazing BPRD.

KP: But there’s your spin-off…

STONES: Well, exactly. You know, we will do that show. No problem. That’s not a problem at all. In fact, we could do an animated X-Files. Why not do that series while we’re doing the Hellboy movie…

KP: Or you can do one for the under-5 set – Playhouse Hellboy

tadstones-10.jpgSTONES: Maybe not. (laughs) Maybe we won’t do that. We’re very lucky to be able to work in the long form on these. And there are characters that fans really want to see. Roger gets named entirely, and my feeling is that Roger the Homunculus can’t just be another agent. You don’t introduce him in a briefing and say, “Oh yeah, here’s a guy who’s kind of made of pig manure and straw and a few incantations.” You know? It’s like, “Okay, she’s a pyrotechnic. Got it. The fish guy? Okay, got it. I saw Creature from the Black Lagoon. Hellboy, devil. I understand that. The fist is a little odd, but it’s big and it hits things. I understand that.” Once you start getting into other stuff that gets weirder and weirder, I don’t want to make them mundane. Roger deserves his own movie. Will we do that movie? Maybe. That would kind of have to be a direct adaptation, and I don’t know if we’re ready to do one of those yet. We did, within Hellboy: Sword of Storms – available February 6, Tuesday! Buy two, they’re small.

KP: Why not three?

STONES: Exactly. I think they make a great set of coasters for your dinner table.

KP: Arbor day is coming up.

STONES: Hey, Valentine’s! Nothing says love more than Hellboy.

KP: Or three copies of it.

STONES: Exactly. Like I say, there’s no number three without people buying number one. Where was I?

KP: Well, fans may want to see characters…

STONES: Yeah, so fans really… you know, there’s that kind of thing with what they want to see and they really push for, and they’re not thinking it through, because if we just included those things, it’s gonna become the Fantastic Four or the X Men. Which are fine, but they’re not Hellboy. And the next one, if it goes as we plotted it out, the only BPRD agent with Hellboy is Kate Corrigan. Liz and Abe and those guys aren’t in it. And it’s partially because we’ve got so many other characters that are cool that are gonna be in it. We’ve talked of one where it’s Hellboy on a trans steamer. And then we’ve certainly talked others that really feature Liz.

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KP: What are the characters that you really want to see? Forget about the fans for now. You’re a fan as well. Particularly when you talk about the problems with Roger, that you just can’t see a way to quite work it through just yet…

STONES: Well, Roger I could see doing it. I’m just saying if we did that story, “Almost Colossus”, the thing we would have to figure out is how to bring Liz Sherman more into the story. Because currently, her story starts in the previous adventure, and she’s comatose through the whole thing. And it’s like you’d really want to take time to set up how Liz fears her power and doesn’t want it and how dark it is, and then she gives it up to this homunculus. We just haven’t given thought to how to do that. A lot of Roger’s story doesn’t have Hellboy in it, so that’s kind of a tough row to hoe. So I’m not saying we couldn’t do it, it would just be a whole project in itself. Meanwhile, we have other stories that are original that fans don’t know anything about. It’s like, “You know what? Maybe we ought to do those.”

KP: Who would be the character that’s closest to you, besides Hellboy?

STONES: I just love writing him in interactions. I love writing between him and Kate Corrigan. So it’s less about any specific character, it’s about what story we’d come up with. Certainly Lobster Johnson is always talked about… Lobster Johnson is a lot stranger than fans realize. And they may not realize that until the second Lobster Johnson miniseries. Mike is quite the storyteller and part of his creative process is telling people stories he wants to do. Because it just helps him – when he says it out loud he comes up with more ideas, and it’s like, “Yeah, yeah…” That’s just part of his process. So, I will never have another unspoiled Hellboy story. The things he told me – it’s like, “That’s incredible. That’s weird! Yeah, I want to see that!”

KP: It’s going to complicate things, is what you’re saying…

STONES: Well, part of the thing is that Mike feels is, “I want to tell my Lobster Johnson story before you tell yours, or Guillermo tells his.” And it’s like, I’m all for that, because I’m a fan. Or we could use him, but we’ll only tell this little part of the story, because that’ll be a tease into the comics or something like that. So we go back and forth on everything, and he’s the one who kinda keeps me updated on what the live action movie’s going to do, without Guillermo having to drop by. We basically try to stay clear of each other’s subject matter.

KP: So how would you describe the working relationship between you and Mike?

STONES: Fun. Absolutely the best part of the production is working on the story with Mike. And he is just incredible at how many stories he can come up with in a short amount of time. Whereas you develop a story, he’ll come up with a visual that even has color references in it. So he’s already seen the movie in his head kind of, or at least a sequence, and you’re taking notes wildly. And some of my best moments is when I come up with something that he feels like he could have written… That could have come out of him, and by the time we get to the end people say, “Well, which ideas were yours and which ideas were Mike?” There’s a couple that I really know are mine and a couple that I really know are Mike’s, but past that, I have no clue. And that’s a good sign to me. It means that we’re really doing his kind of story. Mike has, from his point of view, just the right amount of involvement in our shows, in that he works on story, even up to dialogue notes. He may come to a recording session or two. And then he’s done. He’ll describe visuals. He doesn’t draw anything for the show. And then he sees it finished. I would love to have him more, except that I’m a fan, and we could use up all his time, and it’s like, “No, go write some comics.” (laughs)

KP: Is there anything, creatively, you’ve come to loggerheads over?

STONES: No. Part of what I did before starting these projects is read a lot of the source material that Mike did… Source material is the wrong way of saying it. Mike loved the Weird Tales stories. He loved the work of Manly Wade Wellman and obviously H.P. Lovecraft and Clark Ashton Smith and Hope Hodgson. I read a lot of that stuff to get kind of the vibe, some of the things that he loved that led to Hellboy, which led to a certain kind of a story idea, which put us more on the same level. There was nothing…I’m not trying to sell him my version of Hellboy – we’re working on the story together and he’s keeping me on track on how to do Hellboy. If there was such a thing as he has a suggestion, and it’s just different, it’s not necessarily better, I’m gonna go with his idea, because that’s the whole point. He has the unique point of view, the quirky sense of humor that gives it a special flavor. And that is what I’m trying to get on film. It’s much different for Guillermo, who’s doing a movie that he’s gonna spend several years living with, both writing and developing and putting on. At a certain point, Guillermo is saying, “In my movie, Hellboy and Liz are going to have a romance.” And that may be the thing that made that movie stand on its own for an audience who’s never picked up a Hellboy comic. But it’s not something I would do, because my goal is to stay as close to the comic as possible. Although the specific events in our universe are different from Mike’s universe.

KP: Is there anything in your eyes that you’d say is completely inappropriate, either for a story or a character beat, within the universe that you’ve created?

STONES: There are things we did in the first one because we were still finding our way that I wouldn’t have done. Or I wouldn’t have done the same way. There’s a sequence where the Japanese artifact spirits kind of dance into the room, and it was kind of a little fun jab at Beauty and the Beast, and then they attack. That’s one of those moments where I should have gone back in and said, “This attack has to be horrific.” Part of it is, they’re in real jeopardy and Kate’s being smothered, but it’s like, that requires special care. The psychic character in the first movie is sillier than we should have gone. He was just a little too cartoon. In the second movie, Sidney Leach is involved, the Human Metal Detector, who’s a very minor character from the comics. But he felt right. He’s a little more solid in his portrayal, and he fit in with the other agents. So that kind of stuff, I look back and say, “You know, that’s inappropriate.” In one case, if you don’t try hard enough with something that seems like a silly concept, and then you can’t give it the energy and the effort to turn that silly into horrific, then avoid it. If there’s limitations with your schedule or personnel or whatever it is. And the other’s just a tone thing. “Here’s the level of silliness we’ll do.” There are places for broad, slapstick humor in this movie, but that wasn’t the spot.

KP: How much of it was a boon to you as a writer and a producer, knowing that you had by and large the film’s cast to depend on?

STONES: Well, it took away the worry there. You knew that you didn’t have to go through casting or, “What’s Hellboy going to be like?” or “How’s he gonna say this line?” We know how he’s gonna say the line. And I don’t want to make light of Matt Wayne, who wrote Sword of Storms – I came in and had to write the extra material and rewrote some of the stuff because of changes we made, so we split a credit. But Matt was one of the story editors on Justice League Unlimited, and did a huge amount of research into the legends. And really, a lot of the authentic feeling came right out of his work. The second movie was written by Kevin Hopps, who I’d worked with well before on Darkwing Duck. He had the benefit of having a little more time and he got to go to Mike Mignola’s house with me. In those early stages of working out the story, we kind of gave him the story and then he pitched it back to us on index cards, having fleshed out moments, and we could talk about that. So he had a little more involvement at the beginning than poor Matt did.

KP: At this point, within your own mind and between you and Mike, how many germs for films would you say you’ve developed?

STONES: Well, we’ve talked about, I’m sure in passing, at least another four or five. But not to say that we would do those four or five, that’s just kernels of… not even a premise. Barely a springboard. But you know that, “Oh! Of course! We can do a William Hope Hodgson Sargasso Sea type story with Hellboy.” And you kind of immediately know, “Yeah… yeah… I know exactly how that would do and how we would set it.” You don’t have to talk about it and you kind of know that when we get there, that’ll be a piece of cake. That’ll be a whole different feeling from these other movies, and we’ll get to that one. I was working with some Native American actors and I started talking about supernatural tales of the American southwest, and Michael Horse – who was the deputy on Twin Peaks, and played Indians in all sorts of movies and television, because he is one – grew up on the reservation in New Mexico, and was telling me about how he used to clip his crystal radio set to the barbed wire fence, and pick up blues music. And I thought, “Hellboy was raised in the American southwest, and that’s just the kind of thing that he would do, and that’s just the kind of music he would love,” and I said, “Can you give me references for paranormal stories or the supernatural?” I’ve got some, but the Navaho, the Hopi… I told that to Mike, and he thought that was great. There’s a huge space of Hellboy’s life he’s never touched. And we could possibly do that. So that one’s exciting. We were talking about it the other day. And then there’s certainly spin-offs of the books themselves, saying, “Gee, do we want to take the short story and make something more of it?” If you wipe out all those ideas and Mike got in a taxi in Manhattan Beach and was driving up here to Burbank for the studio, and I said, “We’ve got to come up with some new ideas,” I guarantee you he would have a half dozen ideas, and some of them fully fleshed out by the time he got here. It’s just the way his brain works. He cannot turn it off.

KP: Is the current plan to keep these as movies, or is there some plan to perhaps eventually spin this into a series?

STONES: The plan now is to do a series of DVD movies. As I understand it, it’s actually harder to sell a series on DVD unless you are a huge hit on television already. I would be much more comfortable with a BPRD TV series. Because you’d say, “Okay, we can plan it out in a different way, or we can do standalone stories or continued stories, or whatever we’re allowed to do.” But the movies are it. That’s what’s been talked about so far, and they’ve got the rights for several more years. I’d love to do three movies a year. You know, the sales would have to be pretty spectacular for them to commit to that, but I’m hoping they’re strong enough, and certainly with the second one being such a strong movie, that they commit to three more instead of just one more. But we’ll see. I take it as I get it.

KP: So, looking back on your 30 years in the animation industry, is there anything you would tell the your of 30 years ago, just starting out in Eric Larson’s training program at the Disney studio?

STONES: Yeah. Buy Xerox! Buy land in Sedona, Arizona! Buy Apple Computer. And hang out with John Lasseter a lot more.

KP: What was the he like at that point?

STONES: When Lasseter was there? John was just one of the trainees, and he worked on a lot of little Mickey Mouse ideas that were just great. He certainly did a great sequence in the movie Fox and the Hound with Glen Keane. The two of them plotted out this big bear fight. And then when he got a chance to do a little CG animation, plan out a test – actually, it was with Glen – he just… it was when Bill Kroyer was at Disney still working on Tron stuff. John, I think, had a vision of the future. He just saw that there was a lot of potential there, and wanted to do more and more about it, and that wasn’t going to happen at Disney. Not at that time, anyway. They didn’t recognize the potential of the medium, they just worried about the medium that they had. John is more Disney than Disney. So the fact that he’s now heading Disney animation – everything is right with the world.

KP: Was there any point that you regretted the transition into TV animation?

STONES: (laughs) Yeah, whenever my good friends would put out a movie that made 300 million dollars – yeah, around there. And I see books and magazines about them. Seriously…

KP: Yeah, but how many people are talking to an interviewer that has a Megavolt action figure on their desk?

STONES: There you go. And you know what? Actually, as silly as that sounds, that is exactly the difference. I always envied their resources, and literally the animation quality. I’m talking about the quality of acting and movement in the characters. I’ve always envied that. But for my personality, I love the fact that every year and a half or so I do a new show, or Darkwing is on longer because we did so many episodes. But I had, at that time, a lot of ideas. On Darkwing, it was fun generating those different ideas for stories and trying to get the most fun out of them. On Hellboy, I’m now enjoying the telling of the longer story, but already – as we’ve said in this conversation – we’ve got ideas for a half dozen more. I’m anxious to get those in work, too. So, I envied their ability to create these fantastic pieces of cinema, but what I enjoyed is the variety of storytelling I’ve gotten to do. In general, when people ask, “What are your favorite episodes?” I say, “Well, the episodes animated by Walt Disney Australia,” because they had the best animation and that was like, “Look!” You know, the first Darkwing Duck animation that we saw was a pencil test of an episode I had written. It was basically the pilot, which was called “That Sinking Feeling,” with Professor Moliarty. And they just did such a fantastic job of execution. I had never had a pencil test shown to the staff where the staff is laughing out loud. And, in fact, people came from the next office over and asked if we’d be quiet.

KP: And who was that office next door?

STONES: That was Gary Krisel, president of animation. And at the time, I’m thinking, “You see what’s happening? It’s like we’re laughing at one of our cartoons! In a big way!”

KP: A sign of things to come…

STONES: Yeah. Unfortunately, on my shows, I think I never got more than eight Australian episodes. In other series somehow it worked out that they had like 20 Australian episodes. How’d that happen?

KP: Like Little Mermaid?

STONES: No, it was things like Goof Troop and Bonkers.

KP: It always seemed, animation-wise, that Darkwing was two different shows. You had the really high-end, nicely on model stuff that would come from Australia every once in a while, and stuff that might not come from Australia but it was still on model. Then you had these episodes that would pop up that just, you wondered what show they were working on…

STONES: That was just that the shows back then were done by three or four different studios. So it’s purely…

KP: But there was one that had very bulbous designs and this weird sort of elastic animation style…

STONES: All I can say is they were all supposed to look alike. And then everything else is the studio overseas.

KP: But the stories always carried through.

STONES: Well, good. That stayed the same.

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KP: So outside of Hellboy, if there’s any one thing that you worked on that they would turn to you and go, “We’ll give you all the resources you want if you want to revisit this,” is there anything that you would revisit?

STONES: Not really. I mean, as much as I love Darkwing – and if you had a gun to my head and say you must pick something, then I’d probably pick Darkwing and come up with some goofy superhero adventure. Give him yet another origin to drive the fans crazy. I’ve done that. I’ve done that stuff for 30 years. I’m up for an Annie Award on another show I did, for Universal. The Adventures of Brer Rabbit. It’s like, I’ve done that. I don’t need to return to that. There may be a time when, to pay the bills, I’d return to that, and I’ll enjoy what I’m doing, but as far as the creative challenge, I would much rather do Hellboy or talk to Dark Horse about some other properties they have, or just continue with projects that stretch what I can do, or what’s been done in animation.

KP: Are there any projects of your own that you’ve either pitched in the past or never pitched?

STONES: I have a character or two that it’s like, “Yeah, I’d like to get back to that character,” but I won’t even worry about that until I stop having fun with Mr. Mignola’s friends.

KP: So, for the immediate future, as far as you can see, this is your primary focus?

STONES: I was offered a huge Marvel property. They wanted me to show run it, and I gambled on staying here because of Hellboy.

KP: It was Mort the Dead Teenager, wasn’t it?

STONES: Yeah, exactly. No, it was Forbush Man…

KP: If it was Brother Voodoo, you would have been on it in a flash…

STONES: Exactly. Anyway, I gambled that there would be more here. Next week I’ll find out if that gamble paid off. But it’s just such a combination of a character I love, the type of stories I’ve always wanted to do, and working with a creator who’s just fun to work with, who I really admire and respect, and who I consider a friend.

KP: So, bottom line, you’re enjoying yourself.

STONES: Yes. It’s like, at this stage in my career, enjoyment means a lot.

KP: I think that’s a perfect place to end.

STONES: Okay.

KP: Anything else you want to get the word out on?

STONES: Well, the main thing is mention like is it comes out Tuesday. Hellboy: Blood & Iron, which is a much darker story, premieres on Cartoon Network on March 10th.

KP: Is there a current release date for that DVD? Is that summer?

STONES: If there is, I don’t know it. I believe it’s in May.

KP: Just in time for Comic-Con.

STONES: Yeah, basically. In fact, Mike and I will be in New York for the New York Comic-Con in February, and we’re going to have a rather large sneak preview of Blood & Iron at that point.

January 31, 2007

Interview: Mike Nelson

Filed under: Interviews — UncaScroogeMcD @ 4:42 am

-by Ken Plume

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If you’ve ever seen an episode of the critically acclaimed cult series – and self-proclaimed “Cow Town Puppet Show” – Mystery Science Theater 3000, then you probably know Mike Nelson as the “meat puppet” host of the show’s last five seasons (in addition to serving as the show’s head writer during the entirety of its run).

MST3K ended in 1999 after its 10th season, and Mike left behind a career of riffing on bad movies alongside robots Crow T. Robot and Tom Servo. Greener pastures awaited him, including authoring two books – the first of which was a collection of film-themed essays entitled Mike Nelson’s Movie Megacheese. His second collection of essays, Mike Nelson’s Mind Over Matters, delved into the little idiosyncrasies of life – including the perils of the musical as an art form, navigating the city-size acreage of mega-stores, and the (skewed) history of TV. He also wrote his first novel, Death Rat

The call of bad movies eventually drew him back to collaborating with cohorts Kevin Murphy and Bill Corbett as the “Film Crew,” and also providing commentaries for Legend Film’s restored editions of flicks like Plan 9 From Outer Space and Little Shop Of Horrors. There’s even a series of Film Crew DVD releases coming up from the folks at Shout Factory.

This association with Legend Films, however, actually got the Midwest-based Nelson to leave behind the snowy climes of his longtime home in Minnesota for sunny San Diego with the launch of RiffTrax.

If you’re unfamiliar with RiffTrax, they’re essentially downloadable audio commentaries that you can play back on your mp3 player of choice, which you then sync up to your very own DVDs of such classic (and not-so-classic) films as Lord of the Rings, The Phantom Menace, Road House, The Fifth Element, and even Star Trek V. Even better, the commentaries feature that patented Mike Nelson humor we’ve all been so desperately needing back in our lives (and you can’t beat the tracks featuring Mike’s special guest riffers, Kevin and Bill).

You can purchase these commentaries and many more directly from Rifftrax.com for only a few dollars, and additional titles are being added to the library constantly.

I recently got a chance to chat with Mike (something I’ve been doing every few years going back over a decade) about all of these things, plus Dom Deluise. Seriously. Read on…

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MIKE NELSON: Hey, this is Mike.

KEN PLUME: Hey Mike, this is Ken Plume.

NELSON: Hey, how are you?

KP: I’m doing well. I hope you’re doing well.

NELSON: Yeah. Doing great.

KP: Apologies for the slight delay.

NELSON: Oh, no problem at all. Sorry for the transfer problems.

KP: I was about to have a great interview with whoever picked up in the hall.

NELSON: That was Erik. He would have gone on for hours.

KP: Well I’m sure that it would have been a tremendously less awkward than this is going to go. It’s a pleasure to be speaking with you again.

NELSON: Nice to talk to you again.

KP: I can’t remember when the last time was. 2002?

NELSON: Yeah, it’s been a while.

KP: I think around Death Rat. Maybe it was even earlier than that.

NELSON: It probably was… well, I can’t remember. It could have been Death Rat.

KP: All those projects tend to blur together.

NELSON: Yeah, yeah. My whole life is a blur.

KP: I never, ever thought that I would hear of a day when you moved out of Minnesota…

NELSON: Yeah, it took a lot. It took a lot to get me out of there.

KP: Was it just dump trucks full of money? Or just a stunning offer?

NELSON: I’m always awoken by the backwards beeping sound of the trucks backing up with the money.

KP: There must have been so many false alarms though, when it was just a trash truck or UPS…

NELSON: Yeah, exactly. No, I’d been sort of casting about for a move or just more regular work and I spent some time in L.A., and it taught me that I’d rather live anywhere than L.A. I’d done a couple of things for Legend Films before, and I drove down from L.A. to do some other project, and I just kind of drove into San Diego and went, “Oh, that’s right, this place isn’t a crap hole! It’s actually really nice!” And then David Martin, the CEO of Legend, just started talking to me like, “Yeah, we could do stuff on a regular basis. Let’s do stuff down here. Don’t move to L.A.” So he kinda rescued me.

KP: Was there a moment when you were actually contemplating that L.A. transition?

NELSON: Oh yeah. Yeah. ‘Cause I just kind of… the freelance world, it worked for me well. I really had a good thing going. But it gets to be really hard to… when you’ve got to keep drumming up your own stuff and you’re always wondering what’s next out there. I was always lucky – there was always… not always, but usually something coming up. But I kinda wanted to, as I got a little older, I wanted to get some regular work for a little while, and the only place to do regular work is kind of in L.A. So that’s what I did. I did a little exploratory tour out there and ended up here.

KP: Who was the big cheerleader for trying to get you out to L.A.? There are plenty of people you know that have made the transition…

nelson-08.jpgNELSON: Yeah, no, it was just sort of… there were a couple of projects that I was working on freelance that brought me out there anyway. So it was kinda like, you know, if those could be extended or maybe if I could find some really good TV work, then we’d have a go of it. It was just kinda, “Let’s see what happens.” And I was probably 50/50 on the fence of, can I even do this or not?

KP: The living in L.A. part of it?

NELSON: Yeah, the living in L.A. part.

KP: What was the leanest that times ever got? Was there any point where you went, “These are really dire straights, I need to make a decision now…”?

NELSON: No, no. That’s never an issue, really. It’s just sort of the… no, it was just more, again, regular work. Yeah, just patching together a year with freelance stuff is tough.

KP: You’re preaching to the choir on that.

NELSON: Yeah.

KP: Creatively, what appealed to you about the Legend offer?

NELSON: Well, working again with films in kind of the thing that I do best or that I’m best known for just seems to make the most sense. My foray into writing books, it wasn’t particularly a happy time for me just because it’s so… it has it’s own rewards, but it’s so much work. And then you give your work to someone else and you have no more control over it. That gets frustrating. And Legend being a small company and me… if I do a commentary and then there’s any artistic discussion of it, I pick up the phone and would call David, “Hey, what do you think about this?” That’s just the way it goes out there, and I know that it’s going to go out into the world and I know that it’s gonna get sold. So that’s mostly it – the frustrating end of not being in control of your own work is… it wears on you.

KP: How often would you bump up against editorial control that was a little too harsh when you were doing freelance?

NELSON: Well, all the time. I mean, you’re always satisfying a certain client, I guess, if you can call it that. Like I do…

KP: I think the word is “John.”

NELSON: Yeah, exactly. I still do my magazine work and everything, and that’s pretty… I’ve worked long enough where it’s kinda hands off.

KP: Was there any point where the feedback really just grated on you? Something that was just… you had no idea where they were coming from on it?

NELSON: Oh, you know what, I did a couple of things sort of against my better judgment. It was a friend of mine, or an acquaintance, who suggested me for some advertising work. But it was just, “Yeah, just write in your own voice. They know it’ll be sort of under your name. This is not anonymous work – this is like ‘Nelson says…’ kinda stuff.” And I thought, “Well, I don’t know. It never seems to work out that way.” But assurances were made, and then it didn’t work out that way. The client had no idea what was going on. A team of people descended on my work like vultures and ripped it to shreds. That part doesn’t bother me all that much. I’ve written so much, and I don’t have a lot of ego invested in stuff like that.

KP: It was that it went out as “Kevin Murphy says…” that really hurt…

NELSON: Yeah. Well, it’s more the when you just can’t figure out what they want. You know, I’m happy to accommodate, but it’s the whole contradictory notes – where the notes end up making a black hole where you get sucked into it…like, there’s no way to satisfy these contradictory notes. I can’t do it. No human can do it.

KP: So there’s the cognitive dissonance of it all.

NELSON: Yeah, that’s when it gets tough.

KP: Was it difficult to make that transition to freelance after MST3K ended? You went from having MST3K as a brand, to having to make “Mike Nelson” a brand. Which you were able to do, popping up in various articles and, really, selling yourself.

NELSON: Yeah. Well, it hasn’t been that tough. I was just talking to somebody the other day, that I’ve been really blessed to be able to do most of the stuff that I wanted to do – if I would knock on a particular door, it usually opened. And I only say that, I’m really fortunate in that regard. And so I’ve done a little radio, I’ve done magazines and books. I’m writing a children’s book and I’m working on a play. So I’ve been able to do pretty much everything that I wanted to do. The only thing about forming the “Mike Nelson” brand is all the stuff that you don’t really see which is me turning down a whole bunch of stuff. That’s where you really get into shaping what you do. And for me it’s not creating a brand, it’s simply what is in my wheel house…. “What does it make sense for me to do?”

KP: But essentially, just by the fact that you’re out there, you’re having to create some kind of expectation that people have when they see your name attached to something.

NELSON: Yeah. I think that’s definitely true. There were a couple of projects that I did. A couple of TV pilots that, you know, it’s kinda like, “Ah, this really isn’t right in the middle of what I do, but you know, it’s kinda fun.” Then when they got killed, I could only see sort of afterwards. like, “I’m really glad that didn’t turn into a huge successful hit.”

KP: You have to give an example of at least one of those that you’re glad went nowhere.

NELSON: Well, there was one I really loved. It was a friend of mine who ran a production company and said, “You know, you should submit an audition tape for this new show we’re doing where they kinda drive around to different towns where iconic movies were shot, and just give kind of a comic informational tour of those cities and what the people thought of having movies come there to shoot.” And I thought, “Oh, that sounds like a lot of fun.” And it was. It was shot and it was a lot of fun. And then the executives, I don’t know, got fired and some other people came in, they recut it and then they recut it again, and then they cut out the humor, then they cut out me looking dignified in any way, and pretty soon it was just this ugly sludge of just me looking like a moron. So when that didn’t make it I was happy. But it was delightful to shoot and everything, it’s just that whole idea of, man, it goes out there and then you just have no control.

KP: So really it’s just, if you were able to retain control of it, the concept and the execution was fine for you.

NELSON: Yeah, it would have been great fun if it had stayed the way that it was supposed to be.

KP: Is that something that within Legend could ever be resuscitated in some permutation?

NELSON: I think the idea… well, I don’t know who… I would probably not revisit it. It wasn’t my idea. But yeah, I’ve always thought of something like that. Me sort of a man on the street, I’ve always enjoyed doing that kind of stuff. Even though a few of the projects I’ve done, none of them have gotten through to the production stage. But I do like them.

KP: Nothing can be as epic as the pilot for Stupid Human Tricks.

NELSON: Yeah, right.

KP: So count your blessings. Was there any point where you thought about moving beyond the MST-style riffing wheel house? Like, “I’m limiting myself by staying in just this,” or was it always that you fully embraced, “Well, this is what I do…”?

NELSON: More the latter. It’s never bothered me. I’ve never felt constrained by it. I absolutely love crafting comedy. And I still do so many other things. New projects come along all the time. I’ll do college speaking, or I do my magazines and, like I said, all the other writing projects. So I’ve never felt like, “Man, I’m stuck in this dead end.” It’s always been fun and I’ve always had the opportunity to work with people who make you laugh, and that’s like gold.

KP: How different is the actual writing process … because Mystery Science Theater was very tightly scripted. How tightly scripted is RiffTrax?

NELSON: Just as. Just as tightly scripted. The only difference is there’s not the room full of writers experience that you get to have. But as I look back over it, that was less efficient than the way that I write now.

KP: Do you miss that camaraderie at all?

NELSON: Yeah. The camaraderie was what kept the show going for… forever. I mean, if we had written the way that I write RiffTrax, we all would have killed each other and the show would have been over in minutes. But I have a high tolerance for pain, and I can do this and I enjoy it and I actually… the first thing that I did when I was at Mystery Science was get handed the pile full of jokes for the show, and told “Here, make this work.” And so that’s kind of what I did from the very start as the head writer, was just sort of poke those jokes in there and decide which was the best one and edit them. So all that kind of work is what goes into RiffTrax, so it’s kinda what I do anyway.

KP: If you were to compare the ratio of written to discarded, between the two, how much unused material was generated between the MST and RiffTrax?

NELSON: Oh, Mystery Science, scads of material was created. Big reams of material. They would be pretty funny when you’d look at the raw script and you’d see a couple of paragraphs of jokes, and then you get to that spot in the film and there actually wasn’t even in a spot for you to make any joke at all. So we stopped and had tremendous fun for about half an hour writing joke after joke, and we didn’t actually need a joke. So those were the times were… as the show went on we got a little better at figuring out, “Hey guys, you know, as fun as this is, this won’t actually end up in the show.”

KP: How much of that was just to keep your sanity, though?

NELSON: Oh, a lot of it was. That’s why I never, never really tried to curtail it too much. It definitely was. And then also you could generate a whole concept or a thread of jokes in that moment that you could use later. It doesn’t mean we couldn’t use it anywhere. So it wasn’t as wasted as all that. But it still generated a lot of stuff that didn’t get in the show.

KP: Content wise, as far as the types of jokes… because, obviously, you were on basic cable at that point… Was there anything or anyone in particular who was very good at generating material that would never be able to make it to air?

NELSON: Oh, everyone had their talent.

KP: Who would you say is the worst offender?

NELSON: I wouldn’t want to point that person out, Kevin.

KP: Would you say Kevin tends to work a little blue?

NELSON: No, I wouldn’t say that. I mean, we always had a… in a comedy writing room, there’s always going to be a certain amount of that. I remember watching with amusement the case of the woman who I guess was a typist or something in the Friends writing room…

KP: That brought the suit?

NELSON: Yeah, that brought the suit and it just made me laugh, like, “Oh, come on. I doubt it.” In any writing room in the world, anyone who’d been in there for 10 minutes could claim that they had been harassed and abused beyond all measure, because it’s the nature of it. And especially when you’re dealing with these bad films that you had to get so close to and intimate with. You got pretty angry at the film, so that ended up coming out sometimes in jokes.

KP: I heard you used to make Trace cry all the time.

NELSON: (laughs) I did.

KP: But I heard you were just a bit weepy anyway.

NELSON: He was a little bit of a woman. No… (laughing)

KP: Was there any thought then, going to RiffTrax when you don’t have that sort of outside imposition to continue working the same mode, of expanding the boundaries? One of the great things, obviously, is the accessibility that both MST3K and RiffTrax have. Where do you set your personal limits?

nelson-05.jpgNELSON: Mine are throttled pretty low. My thought is that there was a certain audience for Mystery Science, that we got so many letters from families and kids, mothers and fathers and daughters watching together. An astounding amount of people, for whatever reason, would say, “My father was sick,” or something, or “He was recuperating from this, and I brought tapes in, and he’d never seen it. And we watched and we loved it.” So I always have this thought of generations of people watching. That’s always in the back of my mind. I really want to keep it accessible to as many people as possible. And I love writing around problems where a certain joke, if you got a little blue might be good, but to solve the problem of, “Can there be just as good or better of a joke without that?” And I love that challenge.

KP: Is there any point where you’ll go one direction and then circle back to, “You know what? I’m not going to push that level.”

NELSON: Oh yeah. But by now I know it pretty well. But when I’m working with Kevin and Bill, there’s always a little bit of… we have different thresholds by a little bit.

KP: What is the compromise process like on things like that?

NELSON: Oh, it’s pretty easy. We’ve got such an easygoing working relationship that there’s never really any issue on that.

KP: Would you say that there’s recurring themes for both Bill and Kevin that keep popping up?

NELSON: There probably is if you could break it down. One of the things that I think our producer Jim Mallon used to like to do to keep a spark in the writing room was to always, always, always ask, after he laughed at a joke, “That was funny. Whose was that?” And early on, very early on, we learned – even though everybody probably knew whose it was – was to say, “It came out of the writing room.” That is always the attitude of just if it came out of the writing room, we all wrote it. That’s just the way it is. So I wouldn’t say… I suppose there is a way you could break down if you had all the raw material and looked at it that you could figure it out. But we’re sort of writing for the same purpose, so we tend to… it would be a little difficult to pick out who wrote what or how.

KP: Do you find the writing rhythms are different or very similar to what they were going back, what, almost 10 years now?

NELSON: Yeah, they’re pretty similar. I know the way now that certain jokes work, and you know how much space you have. The only thing that is different is the movies are of purportedly better quality. That may just mean better in terms of…

KP: You mean they have better equipment…

NELSON: They actually used lights, yeah. The microphone worked.

KP: They weren’t working from cut film stock…

NELSON: Yeah, and they weren’t piecing together three unfinished monster movies into one.

KP: One of the biggest surprises obviously was when the commentary came out for Plan 9, since that was for years quoted as something like, “How can we possibly go in and do something for that?”

NELSON: Yeah…

KP: That it kinda parodied itself. So when you finally were confronted with doing that, did you find the going a bit slogful?

NELSON: No, actually, it wasn’t. I can’t really remember what the thought process was for Plan 9 when we said that we wouldn’t do it. What I think I remember most is that we thought there was too much narration in it. There was sort of an idea that was just kind of a dogma that we would never do it but I don’t think anybody really thought about it much. I think sometimes when you have to answer a question a lot in the press, somebody says something that sounds good and then you just repeat it and it kinda echoes because you… you know, the question comes up a few times and then you don’t want to think too hard so you say what somebody else said. And I honestly don’t think if you asked anyone, would they say today that Plan 9 was just one of those we wouldn’t touch. I think there was a couple reasons why we didn’t do it, but the fact that it was untouchable probably isn’t the truth to that.

KP: I’m sure if it had popped up as being licensable during one of those desperate times when you were really searching for a film that you guys could latch onto, you would have been on it in a flash…

NELSON: Oh, yeah. You look at some of the films, the really bottom of the barrel ones, if somebody had in one hand Plan 9 and then they had in the other a Coleman Francis film, at least I know I would have been ripping the Plan 9 out of his hand.

KP: When you look at that, and obviously many people have asked you in the past about the most memorable ones, or the ones you enjoy the least or the most, and knowing that most of it is a blur just because of how many you did over the years – Do any of them flashback, sort of like ‘Nam flashbacks, where suddenly there’s some portion of one of those films that just pops into your head?

NELSON: Not too many. If I see them again… my kids have some of the DVDs, and they’ll occasionally turn one on. I often have to leave the room. First of all, there’s the whole idea of seeing yourself. You’re never comfortable with that. And hearing your voice. Like, “Who’s that idiot? Oh, that’s me again.” But there’s also the… yeah, the movies. When I see a little flash of it in person, I say, “Oh god, I remember that.” I can sorta get that feeling of 2:00 in the afternoon when the glory of lunch was long past and you’re tired and you’re sinking down in the couch and nothing’s coming easily and you just begin to hate the film. Yeah, I can remember it then.

KP: So it’s really a sensory issue more than anything else.

NELSON: Yeah. And I can’t even remember some of the catch phrases. There were things that we didn’t use too much in the actual writing of the film but would sort of circulate around the writing room. Just little moments of movies that we’d use to drive each other crazy. Somebody reminded me of a few of those the other day and I’m like, “Oh god, yeah. It still hurts.”

KP: Any that you still remember at this point?

NELSON: Our editor Brad Keely, for our final show, made a little collection of them and strung them all together just to amuse and annoy us.

KP: Did it accomplish both those goals?

NELSON: It accomplished that. We used to inflate certain moments. Like there was a moment in… oh I forget. See, this is the problem. They’ve hurt me so much. All my useable memory storage is gone.

KP: I almost feel bad asking you now. Almost.

NELSON: (laughs) The one where the guy, they’re riding around in little golf carts. It’s a late 80s movie, I think, in space. Cameron Mitchell is in it looking like Santa Claus. Anyway, he had a line about, he just did a really strange reading when somebody asked him a really straightforward question and he very haltingly said, “I’m thinking of the possible motive” and made a strange inflection on it. And for some reason that whole thing, like, “Why did he read it that way? What is he saying? Why did he suddenly become slightly Russian? What the hell is that?” And the fact that you have to see it 30 times, it just drives you nuts. Anyone else watching the movie might not even notice it. Or they pass it over once and think, “That was kind of amusing.” Whereas it killed my soul.

KP: But come on, how many times over the years was your soul killed?

NELSON: My soul is actually a raisin now. Just a small, shriveled raisin.

KP: I’m surprised it didn’t ask for some kind of legal separation from you at some point. Like it couldn’t take it any more, all the abuse you heaped on it over the years.

NELSON: Yeah.

KP: How different would it be then, in performance, when you sit down and do a RiffTrax compared to sitting down to do an MST3K performance? Because with MST, you’re the Mike Nelson character largely interacting with two characters…

NELSON: I’m pretty fortunate that Mike Nelson was not a heavy character. I probably couldn’t pull off a heavy character. But mostly it’s just that I had that certain persona, and it kinda is what it is. So that’s pretty easy that I don’t have to change or I don’t have to… if I would have had a big handlebar mustache and a cockney accent on the show it probably would have been a little…

KP: There probably were discussions during that first episode, weren’t there?

NELSON: (laughs) Yeah. Well, there kinda was. You kinda had to be for the long haul. You don’t want to keep up a character like that.

KP: No, especially when you feel like shaving eventually. Which is ironic, that we’re discussing that – Didn’t Trace go through that in the final season that he was on the show? Wasn’t that a fake mustache?

NELSON: He did, yeah. For a time, he did. That’s right.

KP: That could have been you.

NELSON: Yeah, that’s right. I’d forgotten that. See, I’m tellin’ you. It’s like someone put the bulk eraser to my…

KP: I’m surprised you’re not going, “Trace who? What?”

NELSON: Trace…

KP: “I barely remember Kevin. His name was… Kevin.” Was it in any way an odd experience doing the first commentary for Legend? Having to sit down there and do a straight commentary?

NELSON: Yeah, there was some choosing about how you… when you’re sitting by yourself in a booth commenting on a film, you can’t be too wacky or people will go, “What the hell’s wrong with that guy?”

KP: Did you find yourself gesturing at all?

NELSON: Yeah… not a lot of insane moving around and pointing at the screen, because first of all they can’t see it. But yeah, it’s a slightly different kind of thing, and mostly it just affects the kind of joke that you write and a little bit but not all of them. Occasionally I’d have to think, “You know, that’s a joke that probably I couldn’t do here,” or can’t quite sell it, or it might sound too over the top for a guy sitting by himself.

KP: Was it in any way an interesting or odd experience when you start bringing Kevin and Bill in, and to actually be doing commentaries with Kevin and Bill?

NELSON: Yeah, as opposed to the small robots?

KP: Yes. I wasn’t gonna say that, but yeah.

NELSON: Not a lot. Once again, we built their characters pretty close to who they were. In Kevin’s case, he slightly lowered his voice. But you know the bit of hamminess and the fact that he’ll sing at the drop of a hat, that’s Kevin as well. And Bill is, you know he just I think just did a slight character voice. He raised his voice a little bit. But otherwise, we tried to follow fairly closely to who they were.

KP: In any ways do you miss the escape of being able to think of these as characters as opposed to being yourself out there?

NELSON: I think it’s sort of a natural transition – as you get a little older, you feel a little silly about… there are certain things where you don’t want to be addressing a puppet every day.

KP: At what point did that really hit home for you?

NELSON: I think when we’re doing these DVDs for… we did them for Rhino and now on Shout Factory, as these Film Crew DVDs that we did – Kevin, Bill and I. And to kinda come up with a persona for the Film Crew, we had to do a lot of thinking about, “Well, who are these guys? Are we the Three Stooges, three guys who live together?” That seems rather undignified.

KP: Yeah, that basement skit was a little bit creepy.

NELSON: (laughs) That’s because Kevin was in a dress.

KP: I thought that’s just Kevin.

NELSON: Yeah. You caught him in a rare candid moment.

KP: It’s the only way he can get comfortable on camera.

NELSON: Yeah. No, so having to think about that and how as you get a little older, what kind of characters can you do. I’ve never been comfortable doing characters myself, so it’s actually somewhat freeing to figure that out. It’s a little bit more of a muted kind of writing, but you could still accomplish what you need to accomplish.

KP: Do you think that you’ve fully shaken off the Mystery Science Theater legacy?

NELSON: Well, it’s not a thing that I worry about shaking off.

KP: Do you worry in ten years’ time that, like the Beatles, someone’s going to come up and offer you scads of cash to reunite for a one-off?

NELSON: I don’t worry about that, I long for it.

KP: It’s like, “Well, we bought the puppets!”

NELSON: I don’t think that’ll happen. I don’t think we were popular enough for that frankly.

KP: Well, can you really say that, though?

NELSON: Yeah. I don’t think that that’s possible. I guess it’s possible. I don’t think it’s probable.

KP: So we’re taking bets on this now.

NELSON: I’ll put some money on it.

KP: I’ll put a nice gentleman’s dollar bet on it.

NELSON: I think I have $4.50 of lunch money in my pocket.

KP: Done and done. That’ll be almost equal to the five dollars I made off of Avi Arad after he claimed that I would cry at his Fantastic Four.

NELSON: Wow.

KP: I did, but not for the reasons that he was going to win the bet for. It was kind of awkward to sit down and interview him at Comic-Con. The first thing I said was, “You owe me a dollar.”

NELSON: Did he remember that?

KP: He did remember it and said, “Well, I don’t agree with you, but all I have is five dollars.” I said, “Well, I can make change.” He said, “No no, I can afford it.”

NELSON: Oh, sweet.

KP: So he pulled out the five, and then I just had to really make him pay, so I said, “I have a sharpie – can you sign it?” At that point, after that film, you really have to get some kind of emotional revenge, right?

NELSON: I think you’re owed that and much more.

KP: That bill has a place of honor stuck somewhere that I don’t remember at this point. But yes, I’m more than willing to take up the bet that the show has more of a legacy than you’re giving it.

NELSON: Well, we’ll see. How long do we have?

KP: Ten year span?

NELSON: Alright, that’s good.

KP: That’ll give it enough time to sink into another generation that will elevate you.

NELSON: Alright. I’ll see if that happens.

KP: When they start having the action figures come out, and the anniversary editions of the various things.

NELSON: Well, it hasn’t come up yet, so I’m safe. But we’ll see.

nelson-09.jpgKP: You tell me it’s not a glimmer in the back of Jim Mallon’s mind?

NELSON: Well, that could be.

KP: Stranger things have happened.

NELSON: Yeah, yeah.

KP: At what point was it decided to bring Bill and Kevin into RiffTrax? Because you did the initial ones yourself…

NELSON: Yeah. Well, I think almost right away. That was kind of a goal. Especially the work that we had done with Film Crew. So it was kind of a goal to see – first of all, to see, “Can this thing work? Technically does it work, do people know where to get it, and will anyone bother to do it?” And once that was answered yes on most counts, then, “Oh, we gotta get Kevin and Bill out here.

KP: And those questions were answered in the affirmative rather quickly. You’ve only launched, what, six months ago now?

NELSON: Yeah, yeah it was. It did sort of work from the get go. And people were interested and it sold well.

KP: It’s one of the few things on the net that really isn’t widely bootlegged.

NELSON: Yeah, I think so, and I think people understand that if it is widely bootlegged it’ll just go away.

KP: And it’s so incredibly cheap.

NELSON: Yeah. The other day I accidentally bought a ring tone for my phone that expires in three months. And it was $2.50, and I thought, “Now that’s a rip-off, man.”

KP: You’re just throwing that money away.

NELSON: It’s just right down the tubes.

KP: What was the tone?

NELSON: The ring tone was a Van Morrison song, the only one that they had, which was “Brown Eyed Girl.”

KP: What was the one you wanted?

NELSON: I was looking for something maybe off of Astral Weeks or something.

KP: Something that you could have not been somewhat embarrassed to walk around with…

NELSON: Yeah, exactly.

KP: But yet you still bought it – so it was an impulse buy, then.

NELSON: Well no, it was accidental. I was pressing the button to say, like, “How much do they charge and what’s it like to go through the process of buying one of these dogs?” And then it just said, “Congratulations, you’ve purchased one of these dogs.” So it was a mistake.

KP: So you’re fine for it to expire in a couple of months.

NELSON: I’m fine, yeah. I really figured out I’m not the ring tone kinda guy. I’m comfortable with the bell-like sound that has been servicing us well these many years.

KP: That’s just practical.

NELSON: Yes.

KP: I’m sure if someone came up with one of the tracks on Astral Weeks you’d snap it up.

NELSON: I’m not sure I would still want to, you know… I’m not one of those persons that I need to express myself through my phone or my car. God knows my car doesn’t express anything other than I couldn’t really afford a better car.

KP: Does that mean I should scratch the novelty horn off your Christmas list?

NELSON: (laughs) Unless it’s… I think “Dixie” would be worth it out here in San Diego.

KP: I can see you driving around playing “Dixie.”

NELSON: Yeah.

KP: Just so people will know you’re coming. It’s a nice little tip of the hat town. “Oh, it’s that Mike Nelson.”

NELSON: “There he is again.”

KP: “He works over in the Legend plant.”

NELSON: Which reminds me of another embarrassing thing that the uh… there was a guy in Minneapolis who had a big white van that he painted with the silhouettes, and he used to drive around. He was somewhere in my neighborhood, and constantly people would tell my wife, “Hey, I saw your husband riding around today.” They don’t know me at all, clearly, if they think that I would drive around in a large Econoline van with my own image painted on it…

KP: Well, it should worry you even more that they have this image that you would be that guy.

NELSON: That’s what was troubling. And for all I know it had a novelty horn of the theme song or something.

KP: Did they say it with some sort of pity, like, “Yeah, I saw your husband driving around.”

NELSON: I think it was just sort of a…

KP: “Is he doing well?”

NELSON: I think it was informational, but there could have been a sort of sneer in there. Like, “I saw that idiot husband of yours driving around.”

KP: “Why did you marry him? You can still get out. It’s not too late.” Well it’s a good thing they didn’t know that you lived in the neighborhood.

NELSON: Yeah. I think there was even more than one of them. That was the other thing, too.

KP: They had a whole fleet of them?

NELSON: I don’t think it was a fleet, but there was another incarnation of it on a different van or something. So there was even twice the chance that people could think that I was acting like an idiot.

KP: So, you know, now he’s got that Reign of Fire RiffTrax image airbrushed on there…

NELSON: (laughs) Oh dear god. That’s why I moved out.

KP: Oh, he’ll follow you. Every once in a while you’ll hear that sort of siren song of that horn passing through the neighborhood.

NELSON: Yeah. Well, I was at a college speaking gig a little while ago, and a kid came up in line and he had a pretty sizeable tattoo of the silhouette on his body. And I thought, “Now, that’s commitment.”

KP: Should I ask where it was?

NELSON: Well, you can ask, because I think it was across his chest and arm.

KP: Was it your silhouette or the Joel silhouette?

NELSON: I think it was mine. I didn’t want to look close. His nipple was my head, so I didn’t want…

KP: I’m surprised he didn’t want you to sign it.

NELSON: Yeah. Well, I’ve had that, too. I’d say, “Flat goods only, sir, please.”

KP: I hear you’re doing Comic-Con this year…

NELSON: Yeah. I’m going to be there probably with Legend, and also with Shout Factory.

KP: So you’re gonna see everybody now.

NELSON: Yeah.

KP: You think that the guy with the tattoo was a little odd…

NELSON: Yeah, well, I strolled around Comic-Con this last year, and I found all in all, pound for pound, it was one of the least weird, if you can believe that, of the conventions that I’ve been at.

KP: Well, considering that two of those were ones that were themed just to your show…

NELSON: Yeah. Well… I have to hold conventions for my own show just so that occasionally people recognize me.

KP: Yeah. So when’s the first RiffTrax one, then?

NELSON: Yeah, we’ve got to get one going. I think we could hold it in my office at this point, though.

KP: You could. Well, it’d just be Erik with a party hat on. And you’re doing, what, the Sketch Fest coming up.

NELSON: Yeah. We’re doing a live movie there, live RiffTrax.

KP: Is this the first time you’ve done a live commentary at a screen since the convention in the 90s?

NELSON: Yes, it would be.

KP: Are you looking forward to it?

NELSON: Yeah. It should be great fun. As always, when you get the immediacy of performance, it’s always fun to do it. It’s always a little riskier and everything, but this should be great fun.

KP: Any part of you miss your stand-up days?

NELSON: No. Not at all. Not at all.

KP: If it’s the immediacy of the response…

NELSON: That’s the problem with stand-up, is that I was threatened to be killed more times than people actually laughed.

KP: Yeah, but you survived touring with Tom Arnold.

NELSON: I did. It was one of my first big tours. And that was right when it was hitting that he and Rosie were an item. So he was particularly strange at that time.

KP: I think you mentioned to me that he was on one of his unique diets at that point, as well…

NELSON: Yeah, he was on some sort of liquid diet that made him particularly cantankerous and jittery. The diet also consisted of him going into a gas station and pulling snack items off the shelf in great armfuls and piling them on the front counter. “How much do I owe ya, captain?” What the hell kind of a diet are you on, here?

KP: I just like the affectation. Have you ever taken up some kind of nautical affectation to call people, like “mate” or “matey”?

NELSON: That puts me in mind of another great Kevin story. We were doing… you know how people throw out the nicknames when they can’t remember your own name? “How you doing there, sports fan?” “You don’t remember who I am.” I was at a critics convention and there was a guy there who had sort of… he kept asking me a lot of questions, and he kept revisiting me again and again. I think he was just sort of palling around with me. Then one day, the next day after spending nearly a day with the guy, he said, “You know what? I don’t think Kevin likes me and I don’t think he even knows who I am.” And I said, “Nonsense, of course, everybody loves you.” And Kevin walked into the room and looked at him and goes, “There he is.” (laughs) “Kevin, you are so busted.”

KP: Did you side with Kevin and go, “You know what, I’m gonna make sure I can smooth this over.” Or did you go, “Hey, Kevin, what’s his name?”

NELSON: No, I just said, “Kevin, come on, you know this is sports fan… come on.”

KP: And, of course, he said, “Uh, where’s the buffet? Gotta go. Do you hear the phone ringing in the other room? It’s for me.”

NELSON: Yeah…

KP: So, now that you’ve pulled Kevin and Bill into it, are there any plans to lure anyone else down to San Diego?

NELSON: There’s talk. I’d love to… there are many people beyond the MST universe that I think it’d be fun to pull into the booth. We’ve got some names of people who are interested and now it’s just about scheduling those celebrities, and that can be an extremely difficult thing. So I’ll only throw out those names when they’re actually in the can.

KP: I know Erik was talking about trying to ask Kevin Smith about it.

NELSON: Oh yeah. I have to admit I don’t know much about him.

KP: So, you haven’t heard his Road House commentary…

nelson-06.jpgNELSON: No. See, I was a little too miffed about that. I mean, come on, I’m far more closely associated with Road House than him…

KP: You wrote a Christmas song about it.

NELSON: Yeah…

KP: You should have made the case. See, now I’m going to have this awkwardness when I talk to Kevin next. I’m going to go, “Mike’s got a beef with you.”

NELSON: That bastard stole my Road House commentary gig.

KP: But now it’s a cornerstone of RiffTrax, as well.

NELSON: I did want to… when I heard that Road House 2 was coming out, I made a gesture toward asking for a part in the film. But then I just kinda lost my nerve.

KP: Much like all the actors in it.

NELSON: I confess I haven’t seen it yet. We timed Road House the commentary to come out with the special edition of Road House, which came out with Road House 2. But even given that, I still haven’t seen Road House 2.

KP: It’s hard to think of a film that has less in common with its first film than Road House 2.

NELSON: What about Havana Nights?

KP: Yeah, but Havana Nights at least had dancing.

NELSON: (laughs) Oh, okay. This doesn’t have punching people in the head?

KP: Not in any way that you would call it a Road House picture. It’s more like they tried to make an action adventure thriller… sort of like Miami Vice meets Road House.

NELSON: Were there monster cars?

KP: I don’t recall any monster cars, no.

NELSON: Oh, you’re right then. They’ve lost what their core competencies are.

KP: When you have someone going undercover at the Road House bar, and it’s more about that…

NELSON: Yeah.

KP: Then you know that… it’s kinda like if you were to make Road House into Donnie Brasco.

NELSON: Yeah, that doesn’t make a lot of sense.

KP: That’s what you got under Road House 2. But now that should just really pique your interest to see just how far they went off what was a clear template they could have followed.

NELSON: A clear and beautiful template. But I don’t think – ultimately, can you ever replicate Ben Gazarra and Sam Elliot? To me. We were just watching the scene where Ben Gazarra sort of interrogates his hoods after their failed performance. It truly is one of my favorite scenes in all of film. I smile every time I watch it.

KP: I just love how beautifully un-self-conscious it is.

NELSON: Oh, yeah. It’s straightforward.

KP: I love in the commentary… have you delved into the director commentary that’s on the special edition?

NELSON: A little bit.

KP: That he just clearly doesn’t understand why they film is a joke.

NELSON: No, that was astounding. I thought surely there would be a lot of smiling his way through that, but not at all.

KP: In fact, I’m sure that he was insulted by Road House 2 for far different reasons than anyone else would be.

NELSON: Yeah.

KP: But it’s good to live with a delusion that long.

NELSON: (laughs)

KP: What is the current plan as far as the frequency of the RiffTrax? How long does the writing process actually take you?

NELSON: It takes about a week to write one. And reviewing and going over it. Ultimately, when we get this thing geared up, it would be nice to have one a week. I don’t think that’s realistic for just a little while here.

KP: Not if you want to have any family time or a life.

NELSON: Yeah, to actually live my life. Yeah, I was up with a movie that I had to keep secret. But I was up late. It was about 2:30 in the morning, and I emailed somebody at that point and saw them the next day and they’re like, “What the hell are you doing up at 2:30 in the morning with…” because I made reference to this film. And I had to think to myself, “What has my life come to that I’m doing that at 2:30 in the morning?”

KP: Do you feel it’s somewhat different than the MST days, when you all kept office hours?

NELSON: Yeah, but this is fine with me. Again, having sort of control over your own stuff and building something for the future and building something that people actually like and seek out, it’s a lot of fun. It’s a lot of fun to do it, so it doesn’t trouble me. Some day I will want to not be up at 2:30 in the morning with Road House 2, but for the time being, it’s great.

KP: Of the ones you’ve done so far, are there any that were particularly hard going for you?

nelson-04.jpgNELSON: I really, really, truly hated Star Wars: Episode I. I can’t even describe how angry it made me.

KP: Had you seen it prior to that? Did you follow that whole debacle in real time as they were released? Or did you know enough to avoid them even then?

NELSON: I think Kevin at the time called me up and said we should go at the premier of this new Star Wars movie and laugh at the people. And I said, “That sounds fun.” I think we couldn’t get to one… they were all sold out, so we had to get to the one where only like 20% of the audience is dressed up instead of 95%.

KP: That’ll keep down the light saber battles before the show starts.

NELSON: Yeah, you keep getting poked in the eye with light sabers and stuff. So we went to that and it was in the middle of the day, and I don’t know why but I fell asleep during the middle of it. And I also, it was so loud, it was the loudest experience I’d ever had outside a Who concert. It was so loud that I couldn’t even comprehend what was going on. So the memory of it was not coherent.

KP: Don’t worry, neither was the execution…

NELSON: (laughs) Then when I saw it again… I just could not believe how incompetent it is in every way. Storytelling – non existent. Acting – god awful, horrendous, terrible acting. It’s just astounding how bad it is.

KP: And yet made so much money. Do you ever worry about your fellow man when you view some of these huge successes?

NELSON: It does trouble me. It troubles me. But I fully accept that there are certain things that I am immune to. And I try not to make judgments on those. I am immune to the charm of comic books. And I understand that very many talented and smart people make them and read them, so it’s something in me. But with Star Wars, I don’t think I can be that charitable. I can maybe go halfway on that.

KP: Have you ever been offered to write a comic book?

NELSON: I have. I say no because I don’t know enough about it, and it’s not my world.

KP: Is Kevin still living in the Midwest?

NELSON: Yeah, he’s still living in Minnesota.

KP: Is he contemplating the move?

NELSON: I don’t think so. I don’t think so.

KP: Or is he too fond of cutting wood for the winter?

NELSON: He likes it there. Kevin’s got a sweet little home out in a little woodsy neighborhood. He’s got about nine million oak trees, so most of his life is raking and getting hit in the head with acorns.

KP: And that’s just his wife. I guess you can’t turn down a nice bucolic existence like that.

NELSON: Yeah.

KP: When he comes out, do you hit a chunk of stuff, recording wise?

NELSON: Yeah. I worked him like a mule last time he came out.

KP: But that was at his request.

NELSON: Yeah. Yeah. No, I just figured, as long as we – to extend the metaphor, as long as he’s out here, let’s saddle him out and ride him.

KP: Make sure he goes home broken.

NELSON: Make sure he goes home… yeah, ride him hard and put him away wet.

KP: What is the writing process like when you bring in others? Is it still you writing the entire thing and they just come in?

NELSON: When Kevin and I do it, we hack it up into pieces. I give him the hard sections, and he gives me the easy section.

KP: So things haven’t really changed.

NELSON: Nothing has changed. And we come together, then we go over it. And that’s where it’s most like the old process. Because there are still going to be a lot of moments where you just weren’t able to solve it. Which we did at Mystery Science as well. Until the very last moment, we would just go over and over and over the movie. There was always that moment where you have to admit that the joke that you just passed over isn’t funny. It’s a really hard moment. You have to hit the remote and go, “Well, what do you think of that one?” Everyone agrees, of course, that they hate you. “I don’t know, I didn’t think it was that bad.” And then finally, “Okay, it sucks, it sucks!” And then you’ve got to sit there and stare for another 20 minutes.

KP: How far will, say, Kevin go to fight for a joke?

NELSON: Kevin will physically intimidate me. But that’s why I keep a weapon and a blackjack. No, it’s pretty… we’ve gotten so good at it. There’s such a give and take. We’re easygoing people for the most part.

KP: I’m assuming Bill will only write if there’s a bottle of port and his literary awards scattered about.

NELSON: Yes. Yes, he only writes on his battered Underwood in his little apartment on the Upper West Side.

KP: And he makes sure he puts in the light bulb that flickers…

NELSON: (laughs) And he has a visor on for some reason. I don’t know why.

KP: Well, it’s the only way he can write. You can’t question a man’s methods.

NELSON: Actually we had a writer, Mike Dodge, who’s an old friend and a brilliantly funny guy, and he wrote for a couple of seasons with us. And he would write his sketches, and they were always… when he would explain his sketch ideas, they would be utterly and fully formed and nearly written, which is unusual in a writing room. He didn’t have as many ideas, but they would always be fully formed. And he had never come across a computer in his life, so he would go and hammer out his sketches on a typewriter and hand them back to me. And I would have to enter them into a computer. But I suggested, I go, “Mike, you sit down, and you type. It’s like a typewriter, the keys.” “No, no, no. Couldn’t possibly.” So yeah, for years I would have to type his sketches into the computer.

KP: Did he do it just to see if you would?

NELSON: I think… I tried to test that ground. “Is this his affectation and he has to hold onto it? Is this Tom Wolf’s white suit, or…”

KP: Linus’ security blanket.

NELSON: Yeah. I probed around the edges of that, and he was so adamant about it, and he had other quirks that made it seem like no, this is built into the personality. Like, he would read – every day he would read, religiously, Mark Trail, and then he’d show you, “Now lookit, today’s is brilliant,” and he’d have a fully formed case for why Mark Trail is the greatest comic ever.

KP: It’s got to have one reader.

NELSON: (laughs) Well, Mike Dodge is it.

KP: Did you ever try swapping out the typewriter just to see if he’d notice?

nelson-07.jpgNELSON: It was in his home, too. Because there were only computers in our office, so he would go home and type his thing out. And actually sometimes he would, if he had to write at work, he would longhand it. So then I just had longhand sketches.

KP: So what was the only affectation you had at that point, Doom?

NELSON: That was pretty heavy, but that wasn’t an affectation, that was a pure addiction.

KP: When did you crack that addiction?

NELSON: It was quite a few years ago.

KP: It got pretty bad at one point.

NELSON: Well, when we did the feature film, when you see me on camera, I’m no more than 11 seconds away from having just been in a fierce firefight in Doom.

KP: You used to play Prince, right?

NELSON: Yes. Yeah…

KP: He used to come down in his purple pajamas just to see how things were going in the studio.

NELSON: And we couldn’t look him in the eye and we had to say, “Hey man.” I believe that is the official name for Prince when you work with him, because nobody knows what to call him. So it was kind of that, “There he is…” kind of a thing again. Everyone just says… they put their eyes down, they give a little nod as they pass, and go, “Hey man.” Because what do you call him? You can’t call him Prince, because that’s not his name.

KP: I would go with “sport,” just to see how he reacts.

NELSON: I would add the “O” to that. “Hey, Sport-O.”

KP: He’d probably enjoy it.

NELSON: “Skeeziks,” maybe…

KP: He might even let you live. Was that Doom addiction replaced with anything, or did you manage to grow out of that and never look back?

NELSON: No, I haven’t done anything else. Mostly what that was about, I think that was a very… it was a sophisticated game of tag, really. And the fact that you could taunt in the game was the only thing that made it worthwhile. Well, it wasn’t the only thing. But you could kill and then taunt your opponent live. It’s so beautiful.

KP: I just loved how it got to the point where you would actually, with no regret whatsoever, completely destroy your fans at the convention.

NELSON: That was great fun. And I have to say, no one was even within light years of my skill.

KP: How could they be? I’m sure the designers couldn’t play you at that point.

NELSON: Well, I had heard that the best Doom player at the company played with a mouse, and everyone was, “Oh, that can’t be true. That seems so awkward. No way.” So I spent a few days getting killed a lot, and learned to play with a mouse. It was lights out after that. And still no one made the jump, so I don’t know.

KP: Was there anyone else in the office as addicted to it as you?

NELSON: Oh, I think nearly everyone. Nearly everyone.

KP: There must have been someone in the office who looked down on it like, “Oh, those are children’s games. I don’t understand you.”

NELSON: Oh yes, every female in the office. Every single one.

KP: You can’t tell me that Mary Jo wasn’t secretly wanting to sit down and play.

NELSON: She would do stuff… like, girly stuff… like read books while we were playing these games.

KP: Or paint Kevin’s nails.

NELSON: (laughs)

KP: Maybe braid his hair. That’s what her and Paul used to do. Now that whole thing makes sense. You’re doing RiffTrax right now. You said you’re still doing the writing on the side…

NELSON: Yeah.

KP: You’ve got the thing coming up with Shout Factory…

NELSON: Yeah.

KP: Which is quite a big step. Naturally one can draw the conclusion that you’re not completely exclusive with RiffTrax and Legend…

NELSON: No no, I’m also working… I have a TV pilot in the works. That’s built into the plan of working with Legend, is to be not full time here on any particular thing.

KP: So, really, you’ve got an unbelievably sweet deal.

NELSON: I do.

KP: An almost envious deal.

NELSON: It’s pretty nice. I think that David Martin, he recognized that… being in the business of putting out DVDs, we share the frustration of not controlling your distribution. Of making something that you’re really proud of, working really hard on it, and then having it just not hit the store shelves or not come out. So sharing that, I said, “We’ve got to do something where we can go directly to the people, because people like what you do, so let’s find the people.” So that made sense to me, so that’s kinda what it is. It’s about saying to all of these distributors in the world, “Ha ha! We got a way to actually reach people!”

KP: Is this the most creatively fulfilled that you feel you’ve been in your career thus far?

NELSON: Well, this is gonna sound crass, but I’ve never had an urge to feel creatively fulfilled. I really… I don’t quite know what that means.

KP: I guess I should ask, “Do you feel happy at this point?”

NELSON: (laughs) Ah, thank you for translating that. Yes, I do. What I’m saying is, taking your question seriously, I don’t have a need for that. I know there’s many writers who, when they’re not working, will be writing, and I always think, “Why in god’s name would you do that? Writing hurts! It’s really hard!” You know, I like to do it when there’s a paycheck, but I can’t imagine doing it when there’s not.

KP: I think that’s the best way to sum that up.

NELSON: I think people who are… a surgeon doesn’t go operate on people for fun. I don’t think anyone likes to do their profession in their spare time. Even Brett Favre, or somebody who loves it – still, when you’re off the clock, you don’t want to do it.

KP: In the past 20 years, is there any point where you reached a breaking point -“You know what, maybe I want to do something different?”…

NELSON: Uh, no. No. Part of the problem is I’m not qualified, literally, to do anything but what I do.

KP: I heard you could serve some really great nachos, though.

NELSON: Actually, I could do that. Alright, I’m qualified for two things. What I do and maybe, maybe being… oh, and I could expedite. Where you sit in back and you take the plates and you garnish them, and you arrange them for the waitresses. I could do that. I was pretty good at that.

KP: You gotta admit, the tips were better then.

NELSON: Yeah. You know, I haven’t been tipped since then. I don’t know what’s going on.

KP: You should put just a tip jar on RiffTrax.

NELSON: Yeah. Yeah. There’s a cup on my desk. I could seed that with some tips.

KP: I would love to see what that experiment would do. Now that we’ve put it out there, that if people see you at Sketch Fest or at Comic-Con, if there’s a tip jar there, make sure you tip your Riffer.

NELSON: Should I start with the one dollar bill? Because it seems like if you seed your own tip jar with a five, people just go, “Oh, come on. Please.”

KP: No, I think you seed with a dollar bill, and the rest of the five in quarters.

NELSON: Okay.

KP: That way you got some heft to it, that’s not just a single bill, which looks like an obvious seed.

NELSON: And then I’ll have the five dollars I lift off of you ten years down the road.

KP: Yeah, yeah, we’ll see if that happens. More like I’ll be there collecting when you’re sitting beside a puppet, going, “Mike, could you sign this? I’ll even loan you the five.”

NELSON: Well, we’ll see. We’ll see.

KP: If I see you at any convention, I would definitely put a tip in the jar. And it’s between you, Bill and Kevin as to how you split it.

NELSON: I’ll decide that.

KP: I’m sure that’s a fight in and of itself.

NELSON: (laughs)

KP: And you have to, at some point, just because it hurts me to think that he’s locked in an AFV purgatory, but are there any plans to bring Trace down to do a RiffTrax?

NELSON: Oh I would love to, yeah. I talked to him a few months ago.

KP: I know it’s a nice gig and a steady gig, but it kinda hurts inside to know that he’s on that show…

NELSON: Yeah, he wouldn’t have to travel far. I could go up to L.A. to see him. That’s definitely on the list.

nelson-03.jpgKP: I’m surprised you haven’t done the MST movie yet.

NELSON: I don’t know. The three layers of commentary… at what point does it just collapse on itself?

KP: Even if it’s not a straight RiffTrax, but actually a legitimate track that Universal will never let you guys do.

NELSON: Yeah, well, here’s the other problem, is the movie’s not out there for anyone to get.

KP: Well, of course it is. It’s all over the internet.

NELSON: Oh. Well.

KP: But legitimately, it’s out there. And actually legitimately, legally, it’s available in, what, that edition in Germany that just came out that everyone’s been snapping up…

NELSON: Oh yeah, I’ve heard about that.

KP: So see, you can actually say that there is a legal edition that all the fans would be purchasing at this point.

NELSON: Right. So I can just do a German commentary track.

KP: You could. You’d probably enjoy it. And you know that, just for the songs alone, Kevin would snap that up.

NELSON: Yeah, that’s true.

KP: I’m sure he’s got at least a couple of drinking songs that would easily slot in there.

NELSON: Yeah.

KP: And just the catering alone for that commentary should make it worth doing.

NELSON: Now you’re talking.

KP: See, I just had to make the pitch. I already gave you the tip jar idea.

NELSON: Man. This has been a boon for me…

KP: Now you’ve got the entire Oktoberfest commentary. But eventually you’re going to lose the five dollars on the other bet, which I’m sorry about.

NELSON: Oh, man, well… Hopefully your suggestions will have more than made up for it.

KP: You should think about doing some on the road podcasts or videos for your trip up to Sketch Fest…

NELSON: Yeah, I think some of the people here are gonna tag along with digital videos and things like that, so we’ll put together something. And maybe some fictionalized pieces or some little sketches or something, too.

KP: Or you can just make that trip over to the gates of the Presidio to make a little journey to Lucasland.

NELSON: Yeah…

KP: Now that they’ve formally moved in over there…

NELSON: Yeah, that’s right.

KP: Maybe you could lay a wreath and a copy of the RiffTrax.

NELSON: (laughs) I’ll just demand answers. Just storm in.

KP: Have the picket signs. The RiffTrax.com picket signs. “Give us something else, George.”

NELSON: Do a drape of the whole place with the RiffTrax logo all around it.

KP: Or just leave the official RiffTrax tip jar in front of the gate.

NELSON: Nice.

KP: See, that could work, too.

NELSON: This is paying, to talk to you.

KP: Sometimes, occasionally, it does. It’s very rare though. Only you and Dom Deluise, so far. And Dom probably not so much. There’s someone you could bring down.

NELSON: Where is he?

KP: Dom is right on the coast, I think in Malibu.

NELSON: Okay. Well, yeah, I can get him.

KP: So he’s very local. And actually legitimately you probably could get him.

NELSON: I’m going to look into it.

KP: Just for the conversation alone, and the fact that I found out he keeps all his memorabilia.

NELSON: Really?

KP: So he has his Captain Chaos outfit and some fake tooth he had for some other role. And I think at least one of the twelve chairs.

NELSON: No kidding?

KP: And you get a free meal out of it.

NELSON: Out of him?

KP: Of course.

NELSON: Wow. I have an Italian-American cookbook with a lot of his recipes in it.

KP: Well, now, at this point…

NELSON: We’re pretty much brothers.

KP: You just have to reach out to him. He may even show up with Burt. You never know.

NELSON: Whom I’ve also met.

KP: That’s right, you have.

NELSON: He had a particularly good wig on the day that I saw him.

KP: Did you resist the urge to kinda shake it?

NELSON: I did, totally. He was very… he cut an impressive figure.

KP: Was this the bearded Burt or shaven Burt?

NELSON: He was, I think, mustachioed at the time. And yeah, very gregarious, and all you could do was shake his hand and say, “Wow, you’re Burt.” But my eyes darted to the wig. I could not see the seams on that thing. It was amazing.

KP: Are you sure it’s not a graft by this point, or a transplant?

NELSON: Well, I think it was different than the ones… it was poofier and more… I don’t know. It seemed as though it was definitely a wig.

KP: Does it look like a mood affectation, like he has different ones for different moods? Was it a leathery kind of thing?

NELSON: I think it was mood related, because he seemed really comfortable and self-assured. The hair was high.

KP: So he’s got the upbeat wig.

NELSON: Yeah.

KP: Maybe he borrows them from Charles Nelson Reilly.

NELSON: That could be, (laughs)

KP: Maybe they have a support group where they trade. Kinda like a coffee klatch or something.

NELSON: Yeah.

KP: Well I’ve kept you far too long and I’m sure you’re actually eyeing the clock to get the heck out of the office for the day.

NELSON: No, I’m eyeing a pile of movies that I have to review.

KP: Even worse.

NELSON: So any time away is good time.

KP: Well, hopefully the conversation hasn’t been to uncomfortable.

NELSON: It’s been good, as always.

KP: And definitely keep us apprised of what you’re doing and what we can do to further your cause.

NELSON: I’d love to. I appreciate it.

KP: And we can certainly do whatever the heck we can. But please – save Trace.

NELSON: I will.

KP: Even for a day. Then you can kinda put him back and say, you know, “We tried.”

NELSON: I will. He’s very comfortable at what he’s doing.

KP: How can you not be? I think they drugged him.

NELSON: I think so. But we’ll get him down here.

KP: And tell Kevin that I said hello.

NELSON: Will do.

##

January 18, 2007

Interview: Stan Lee

Filed under: Interviews — UncaScroogeMcD @ 4:48 am

-by Ken Plume

stanlee-03.jpgIf you’re a child of comic books and Saturday morning TV (like myself), then Stan Lee is instantly recognizable as the creator (with legendary artists such as Steve Ditko and Jack Kirby) of Spider-Man, the Incredible Hulk, the Fantastic Four, Daredevil, X-Men, and many, many more.

If that list reads like a recent issue of a Hollywood trade magazine, it’s because all of those properties have either gotten – or are about to get – the big screen treatment.

And Stan, in his 80’s (!), is still a creative powerhouse and one of the hardest working men in showbiz, forming POW Entertainment as his new shingle.

In addition to the Sci-Fi Channel’s recent hit Who Wants To Be A Superhero?, Stan has also got a pair of films hitting DVD based on his new creations – Lightspeed and Mosaic.

This isn’t the first chat I’ve had with Stan, and hopefully won’t be the last, as it’s always a hoot.

Without further ado, my delightful discourse with the dandily dignified (and definitely dear) Stan Lee…

stanlee-01.jpg

STAN LEE: Hello?

PUBLICIST: Hi Stan… I have Ken Plume on the line.

LEE: THE Ken Plume?

KEN PLUME: The Ken Plume…

LEE: Son of a gun. How are you Ken?

KP: It’s good to speak with you again…

LEE: Good to be spoken with. What are we doing this time?

KP: Last time we spoke I was still working for my old gig, but now I’m running Kevin Smith’s entertainment site…

LEE: Oh, you finally hit the big time…

KP: Yeah, I get paid now…

LEE: That’s great!

KP: And again, it’s a pleasure to be speaking with you… again…

LEE: I’m delighted!

KP: Launching in, my first question would be, when you look at new characters like Mosaic, what is the initial germ of an idea that comes to you? How would you characterize that moment when an idea presents itself?

stanlee-05.jpgLEE: Well, what I really wanted… I was trying to think of, “What kind of a heroine can I do that hasn’t been done before?” And forgetting the super power for a moment, I thought I’d like to get a girl who’s just out of her teens, and who wants to be an actress, and that’s the big thing. I thought that a lot of girls could relate to that. Most girls at some age want to be actresses or rock stars. And then I figured, “Okay, what super power will I give her?” And it occurred to me that if a girl wanted to be an actress, probably the best super power – the thing she’d most want – would be the ability to take over other people’s personas. To be able to act like other people and look like other people. So I gave her this chameleon-like quality.

KP: So, for you, the creation of a character is a layering process…

LEE: That sums it up beautifully.

KP: How long would you say that the gestation of an idea like that takes?

LEE: Couple of minutes. (laughing) No, I mean, it doesn’t take as long as it took me to explain it to you. You know, how long does a thought take, really? You get an idea and you say, “Oh yeah, that sounds good,” and then you start writing it.

KP: How often would you say that you go down blind alleys that don’t lead anywhere?

LEE: Um… well, I never counted the times. You know, that happens. When you try to think of something, very often you have one two or it could be a hundred thoughts and none of them are right, and you keep thinking and suddenly… now, I don’t know how many things I thought of before I thought of the girl who wanted to be the actress. But all I remember was at one point I said, “She wants to be an actress,” and then everything sort of came together for me.

KP: Can you remember any point in your career that you’ve had this amazing idea that you’ve developed in your head, only to present it to someone and they went, “But Stan, you already created that.”

LEE: (laughing) I don’t remember it happening with anybody telling me that, but I remember I myself would get an idea and write it down, and as I’m writing it, I’ll say, “Gee, that sounds kinda familiar!” And then I’ll start looking up some old stories and I’ll say, “Damn, I did this before!” In fact, I’ll tell you how bad my memory is for these things – you know I still write the Spider-Man newspaper script…

KP: Right. And your brother still does the art for that, right?

LEE: That’s right. Well, about two years ago, I realized it was time to write another two weeks. So I looked at the last thing I had done, to see where I’d left off, and I spent a couple hours writing the next two weeks. I sent them to my brother, and he said, “Stan, I’ve already drawn these.” What happened was I forgot where I had left off, and instead of going to where I really left off, I went back two weeks earlier, and I wrote the two following weeks, which I had already written. And of course the ones I wrote were different than the ones I had written, ’cause I forgot what I had written so I wrote them differently. Which drove my brother crazy.

KP: So, in other words, your mind was looking for a shortcut…

LEE: I guess, I don’t know. What was left of my mind was looking for a shortcut! (laughing)

KP: When you look at all the characters you’ve created over the years, there’s obviously a large chunk of teenagers, and a large chunk of adults, but there aren’t very many children superheroes…

LEE: Well, I don’t know. I couldn’t see taking a child – let’s say somebody 9 years old – and having him or her risk his or her life fighting villains. It just didn’t seem right… so no, I don’t really write about little children.

KP: Is there any character or any idea that has come close to touching on that?

LEE: Probably, but I can’t remember. I can’t think of any at the moment. Oh, wait a minute, wait a minute… in the Fantastic Four, I had Mister Fantastic and Sue, the Invisible Girl – they had a baby, little Franklin, and I think I always intended to give him some sort of a superpower and have a super-powered kid in the strip. But then I stopped writing the strip, so I never had a chance to do that. Then other writers took over and did whatever it is they do…

KP: But that was the original intention all along, was to make Franklin super-powered…

LEE: Yeah… I thought it would be fun to have a superhero family with a kid who had a super power, although I hadn’t decided at the time what super power I would give him.

KP: And now, fast-forward, you’ve got Mosaic coming out, Lightspeed is coming out…

LEE: And The Condor is coming out.

stanlee-04.jpgKP: Which is the collaboration with Ringo Starr?

LEE: That’s the fourth one. It’s called Ringo at the moment. We may add another word or two to the title, but at the moment I think of it as Ringo. Because when I met him I said, “You know, I’d like to do something to make you famous…”

KP: It’s gonna be hard.

LEE: He was so appreciative.

KP: It’s really a hard task you’ve set for yourself.

LEE: (laughing) But I’m doing the best I can.

KP: You’re such a giver.

LEE: I’m glad you’re aware of that! (laughing)

KP: So that’s, what, slated for release towards the end of this year?

LEE: Oh, hell, I never know!

KP: I think it will be later this year.

LEE: Yeah, I think it’ll be later this year.

KP: Obviously, with creation being a job, what do you do for recreation?

LEE: I do my job.

KP: I know it’s one of the clichés over the years, that you’ve said numerous times that working really is the end-all be-all for you…

LEE: Well, it isn’t work. If you think about it, what could be more fun than trying to dream up ideas for stories? I really enjoy doing it. Now, I don’t… it’s funny, I’ve said for years that I don’t enjoy writing. But I think that’s not true. What I don’t enjoy is having to sit down and write. When I have something to write, I will do anything in the world to put it off. I’ll decide, “Gee, I ought to rearrange my bookcase,” or “I think I’ll shine all my shoes,” or “Maybe I ought to brush my teeth.” I’ll do anything not to have to sit down and write. But when I actually start writing, when I finally get myself to sit down and start the writing, I love it. I’m in another world. It’s the greatest thing there is. I hate when there are any interruptions. I mean, it’s just fun, because you’re like a god. You’re killing people, you’re bringing them back to life. You’re deciding, “I think I’ll make this guy fat, I’ll make this one skinny. I’ll make him old. No, he’s too old. I’ll cut 20 years off his age.” I mean, you can do anything!

KP: So, it’s the whole “god thing”…

LEE: Maybe that’s what it is. I’m power mad! (laughing)

KP: Well, you’ve certainly exercised that awesome power with tremendous responsibility.

LEE: (laughing)

stanlee-07.jpgKP: You’ve also participated in Kevin’s poetry readings in the past…

LEE: Yeah, that is the funniest thing. Of all people to have a poetry reading once a year, the last guy you’d expect is my friend Kevin Smith. But his house has many mansions! (laughing) I love that guy, you know? He is really great.

KP: Have you already prepared your piece for this year?

LEE: Well, I haven’t been invited yet.

KP: I would assume you’re automatically on the list…

LEE: Well, I’d better be! No, I haven’t prepared anything yet. I’ve been threatening for a long time that I might read the entirety of The Raven – the whole thing, from beginning to end. I think that may be what I’ll do.

KP: Why would that be a threat?

LEE: Because it’s long! But if that doesn’t drive them all away and make them decide never to do this again, I don’t know what will !

KP: I would pay money to actually hear that. You should put that up as a podcast…

LEE: Well, alright then, then I’ve definitely decided that’s what I’ll do. And if you speak to Kevin you can give him fair warning. And also let him start charging for it, and I want half of what you pay!

KP: Done and done. And I already set aside my cash. I guess something I have to ask about in the last few minutes before we go, just as trivia…

LEE: Where are we going?

KP: Well, we only have so much time. You have so many other people to speak with…

LEE: Yeah, but you’re the one who’s promoting me. To hell with the others. If I’m nice to you, we’ll sell a few DVDs. The others aren’t gonna do me any good!

KP: Well, you already made me happy saying my name again at the beginning, so anything I can do for you is a fair trade. Recently on the internet, a clip has surfaced of your 1970 appearance on To Tell the Truth

LEE: That is the funniest thing! Where did that come from?

KP: That’s the beauty of the internet. It can come from some guy having a tape and deciding to throw it up…

LEE: Isn’t that… yeah, I just looked at it this morning. I was wonderful! My wife looked at me, and she said, “Gee, you looked so good,” and then she looked at me and said, “What happened to you?” I mean, I’m sorry that they ever showed that! (laughing)

KP: Well, I have to say you had one of the worst poker faces when they introduced you…

LEE: Well, I was supposed to give no evidence of who I am and display no personality, just stand there. Which is tough for me, because as you know, I’m a clown and a ham.

stanlee-08.jpgKP: To anyone actually watching your visual signals, you tipped it off just with that broad grin when they introduced you…

LEE: You think so?

KP: When they introduced you and were talking about how Spider-Man was one of the most popular characters in the country, and what a tremendous creative force you are, you had just the biggest, poor Poker-faced grin on your face…

LEE: (laughing) Oh wow, I didn’t notice. I’ll have to look at it again.

KP: Was that one of your first appearances on national television?

LEE: No, I’ve done so many… I’ve done so many interviews on television and radio, frankly I don’t know which the first was…

KP: Was it a buzz at that point, to get that kind of national recognition?

LEE: Still is! I love it.

KP: I can think of no other person who is truly the face of comic books to the average person…

LEE: That’s really funny. Some people are the face of music, the face of the arts, the face of literature. I’m the face of comic books. I mean, Jesus, it’s the story of my life! (laughing)

KP: But people dream of that. And look, now you’re working with the face of music – a Beatle. Who haven’t you worked with at this point?

LEE: I think that Paul McCartney is going to be very angry with me that I’m doing this with Ringo, but hey, I’ll get to him…

KP: Well, eventually Ringo will cross over with your Paul McCartney comic book, Wings.

LEE: That’s right! (laughing) Who told you?

KP: I knew it had to be on the agenda somewhere!

LEE: The next time we do an interview, remind me to tell you how I met McCartney.

KP: You definitely have to tell me.

LEE: It’s quite a story, but I’ll save it for next time… I’ll be sure that you call me again. Are we talking enough Mosaic? Did I advertise that enough?

stanlee-06.jpgKP: Well, you just did again. And Lightspeed.

LEE: They’ll get angry at me if I don’t say it. When is it going on sale? I think it’s on sale now.

KP: It’s on sale now…

LEE: It’s a hell of a bargain. And everybody ought to go to see it so they’ll have something to criticize.

KP: And better yet, the best reason of all is to support you continuing to create…

LEE: That’s right, and continuing to be able to go to Kevin’s house to recite poetry.

KP: You promised The Raven

LEE: (laughing) And maybe next year I’ll do the entire script of Mosaic! (laughing) I’ll put it in verse!

KP: You can put it on a double bill with Wreck of the Hesperus

LEE: Oh, that’s great!

KP: Well, as always, it’s been a pleasure speaking with you…

LEE: Hey, likewise! I’m sorry you gotta go so soon, but I guess you’re busy. You got a lot of other interviews to do…

KP: Ah, see, now it’s like daggers through my heart…

LEE: I know how it is.

KP: I will talk to you…

LEE: They’ll probably give me hell for not having mentioned Mosaic more often.

KP: Hey, what about Mosaic?

LEE: (laughing) It’s on sale now, and it has the greatest cover. You know, the package looks so dramatic. Whoever designed it, oh man!

KP: And that’s the package for Mosaic, right?

LEE: For Mosaic, yes – the DVD. (laughing), which we just produced at POW! Entertainment. You know, of course, know what POW stands for…

KP: Of course…

LEE: Well, wouldn’t you like to prove it to me?

KP: I think I would love to hear you say it..

stanlee-02.jpgLEE: Yes, I thought you would! It stands, of course – and I’m sure our readers will already have guessed it – but it stands for “Purveyors Of Wonder.” POW! And the reason we had to give it that definition is I didn’t want people to think it stood for Prisoner Of War. So, for that reason, I put an exclamation point after it. You see the things you learn when you do these kind of interviews?

KP: Every time I speak with you, I learn something new…

LEE: I like to increase your fund of knowledge…

KP: At one point I think I’ll earn enough brownie points that you’ll say, “Ken Plume: True Believer!”…

LEE: (laughing) And when you watch the Mosaic DVD, which is on sale now, you learn a lot of new words, like the civilization that’s threatening the human race right now. There’s a special name for it. I’m not gonna tell you that, ’cause I want you to be able to watch it. But all of the people within the sound of my voice can increase their vocabulary tremendously by watching Mosaic, which is now on sale.

KP: It’s better than buying a dictionary…

LEE: (laughing) And tell Kevin not to be angry at me!

KP: (laughing) In fact, I’m going to tell him, A) you’re going to read The Raven, and B) to go buy Mosaic today.

LEE: Oh, you’re a great human being! We’ve got to do this more often…

KP: Excellent! I will talk to you soon, Stan.

LEE: Alright! Thanks a million…

KP: Thank you, sir…

##

January 15, 2007

10 Quick Questions: Clint Mansell – You Just Have To Dig Deeper Sometimes

Filed under: 10 Quick Questions,Columns,Interviews,Trailer Park — admin @ 5:21 am
10quickquestions.jpg

by Christopher Stipp

One thing that has prevented me from straying into interviews with musicians is my ignorance of all things formal regarding the one art form I seem to have no trouble enjoying but little ability to comprehend.

After listening to composer Clint Mansell talk in an interview about music being a fluid process, much like writing, that’s based more on feeling what works and what doesn’t, not even necessarily focusing on measurements or note placements, you feel like there could be a deeper understanding of film composing beyond the idea that it’s nothing more than gathering dozens of people in a room; as such, you’ve got to make sure you have that one guy with the thick fuzzy drum sticks hovering over many timpani. Clint just seemed like someone who is meeting old school film music with a nouveau approach that it sorely needed.

Just listen to the REQUIEM FOR A DREAM soundtrack. It bends your will in thinking this music is a note by note, blow-by-blow, audible journey that could only accompany Darren Aronofsky’s vision of descents into disintegration. It’s just as hardcore as the film and anyone who thinks otherwise doesn’t get what Clint does better than his more classically trained peers.

After receiving an award from the Chicago Film Critics Association recently for his work on THE FOUNTAIN, much respect has to go to The Kronos Quartet and Mogwai in the execution of Clint and Darren’s vision, he is also nominated for a Golden Globe that he way very well be picking up tonight should the stars, and Xibalba, be aligned in his favor.

Regardless, though, of whether he wins or loses I had the sense by the end of our conversation Clint honestly is a rare breed who believes in the work and in the process of work. There are far to may individuals who concern themselves with the quantity and profile of the jobs they take in his line of work, certainly he deserves to be one of those people should he want to tout his precision with PI or REQUIEM even THE FOUNTAIN and screw any notions of impropriety, but Clint makes you believe that there should be more collaborators out there who feel as close to other people as Clint does about working Darren. I wish other people were more kind about the professional relationships they keep but it’s nothing short of inspiring and emboldening to hear Clint talk about the real work that happens behind the screen in making two of the most complex and emotionally rewarding movies that have come out in the past decade.

To say that I’m disappointed with critics and viewers alike for their neglect of a film that had more heart than a comeback-kid who slaps on the gloves for “one more fight” would be a gross use of the word.

CHRISTOPHER STIPP: First of all, congratulations, on the Chicago Film Critics award.

CLINT MANSELL: Thank you very much. I am pleased that the film, the score, is getting some kind of recognition. I guess we were all kind of disappointed, really, with some of the reactions to the film. I don’t suppose”¦maybe we weren’t that surprised in retrospect.

It’s just nice, though, that the film got recognized.

STIPP: To give you an idea of where I’m coming from, I interviewed Darren the morning after I saw the film and mentioned that it was his directing and your score that genuinely elevated the movie from something great to something transcendent; it was the perfect marriage of both the audio and visual components. These two work in concert so well, Kronos Quartet and Mogwai deserving a heap of credit too, and I am curious to know, you coming from a pop, punk, electronic background, what bug bit you to get into film composing?

MANSELL: I think it’s a natural progression for me, really, as a writer. I mean I wrote my first song about twenty years and I think writing is like a muscle, if you exercise it”¦it will grow and you’ll get better at doing it. It will take you places.

I’m excited by music by other people’s music, it influences me, and makes me want to do better and takes me to different places when I listen to it. That is reflected in the music I want to write. When you get to work with someone like Darren, who I really connect with on an artistic level, as well as on a friendship level, but when he explains and tells me his ideas I feel like my possibilities are unlimited, you know? I can’t do whatever I want but if I can make it work within the context of the film, if we know it’s right, I can pretty much do what I want. The last thing Darren wants is something that sounds like a regular movie score.

And like you were saying about the visuals and music working in concert”¦the way Darren tells his stories are not”¦the regular, run of the mill, act one, act two, act three type of events, you know, he’s looking to do something different and challenging if only to himself. I don’t think he’s particularly going, “The world needs me.” He’s going “Well, if I am going to do something it’s got to be worthwhile and say something to me and challenge me” knowing that’s what he instills in all of his collaborators.

We’re not just here trying to get the best table at fucking Spago’s or something. We’re here trying to do something. We went out and did something that we felt was valuable and that’s the excitement of what we do and, also, the downside to that is when people don’t see it the way we see it; what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger, as they say, just move onwards and upwards.

STIPP: And you have the Golden Globes on Monday. I’m curious to know, on a personal level, how you look at these awards. Are they a popularity contest or is there something special to it all?

MANSELL: Well, who knows what the criteria is for these things. There’s a cynical way of looking at it and then there’s my view on it which is I’ve done something I’m really proud of with people I love and we did something that”¦for me, to get nominated or an award for this particular work I’ve done, given that the film wasn’t a critical success, wasn’t a box office success, it’s certainly not coming from a popularity contest point-of-view.

If I got this award for something like some other films I’ve done, like SAHARA, which I something I’m proud of as well, I did good work on those but maybe I’d look at it differently because they’re more straight-ahead kind of films. So, for me, to have been nominated and the work recognized, I take it as a fantastic form of credit for the work we all did on the film.

STIPP: Speaking to the point of how long this film took to come out can you talk about whether the ideas you had for this film’s score evolved as the project took its many turns? Did the score that’s in the movie end up being what you initially envisioned?

MANSELL: No, [the score] became something completely different”¦because the film changed so much; we started this right after REQUIEM FOR A DREAM. I mean, yes, I am very proud for what I did on REQUIEM FOR A DREAM but there is no way I could have written the music for THE FOUNTAIN that I have now written back then.

I mean I’ve done a lot of other work since then, some of it good, some of it pretty good, some of it has been shit”¦(laughs) It’s been a real learning experience; I’ve really exercised that creative muscle. And, also, because the film changed it became a much more intimate story on a much smaller scale.

When we started out it we knew it was going to be this epic”¦there were these big battle scenes”¦and everything happens for a reason. I think a movie, the way it was back then, it would’ve made the movie a different animal. I’m not saying that would have been better or worse I just personally think that everything that happened got us to a better place in the telling of the story. The scale got a lot smaller, it got a lot more intimate.

Eighteen months ago, during the editing process, we did the trailer, I wrote the trailer music for the first trailer, and that stuck more to the original guidelines of what we were thinking about; it was bigger, the music was bigger, the music was heavier, it was more epic. And that worked for the trailer because that’s the sort thing you want, you want it to leap off the screen, but when I took that music and then tried to cut it into the film just to try to see how it would work you could tell instantly that this was wrong. It was too big, it was too grand, it was too bombastic for the story we were now telling and that was when Kronos [Quartet] came back in again because I saw that I didn’t need a sixty piece orchestra, I just needed these four guys to do it.

STIPP: Was there a time when The Kronos Quartet wasn’t going to be involved at all?

MANSELL: I think, in our minds, we weren’t going to work with them because we didn’t think, REQUIEM worked so well, we just felt we weren’t going to top that. We thought maybe if we were lucky enough to make another two or three more pictures then we would go back to them but as the score developed and as it became more intimate and as I listened to bands like Mogwai, Godspeed You! Black Emperor and Sigur Ros it was sort of cinematic and orchestral but on a neo-classical level; it was a more modern approach to orchestrated music. And as I was blending the various elements it occurred to me to think about who would be the best in the world to play this and the answer is Kronos Quartet The answer is still the same, six years later. And although we hadn’t really been in touch with each other that much during that time, when I talked to David [Harrington] and the rest of Kronos it was weird”¦We had each gone off for six years and done different things but then when it was time to talk about THE FOUNTAIN we were all sort of converging on similar thoughts and when we showed them the movie and the music they got it instantly. It just seemed like the most organic thing. It was great.

STIPP: The first thing that I thought of when I listen to the lead track on the soundtrack “The Last Man” I am not only reminded of how exquisitely beautiful Kronos can be but it is also neo-classical in a way that makes me think that this is the kind of classical music which seems entirely appropriate to be played in a symphony hall as well as in a CD player.

MANSELL: Actually, Kronos is playing here on the 20th and they’re playing a suite from THE FOUNTAIN.

STIPP: Really?

MANSELL: Yeah, it’s pretty cool.

STIPP: It translates perfectly, And as I was preparing for this interview I went back and listened to REQUIEM, the REQUIEM FOR A DREAM remix CD and then THE FOUNTAIN. I am struck by the capturing of mood on both the original REQUIEM and FOUNTAIN scores. REQUIEM, when I listen to it, is just haunting. There is no other emotion running through that work. Is that part of your writing, that you want to evoke something specific?

MANSELL: I’d love to say that there was such disciplined and focused thoughts about it but I don’t really work like that.

My way of working is just absorbing the film, absorbing what Darren’s saying to me”¦I just have to get to a place of really letting go. Some of the best things I’ve written, for me, have come at times when I have no recollection of writing them, if you know what I mean. It’s not like some kind of “Ooooh” spiritual transfer or anything like that but things happen when I give into it. That’s the only way I can describe it and that takes a lot of exposure to the film, to the work, which is why I think I do my best work with Darren. Not only because he’s a great filmmaker and he does things that inspire and challenge me but also, as well, I spend the most time in his world when we’re working on something.

I mean six years of working on THE FOUNTAIN, obviously not working on it every day, but being able to take the time to”¦the research you can do over six years of different kinds of music that you can then filter through yourself to come up with something just kicks the shit out of getting on a film for six weeks, banging out some music and off you go. It’s a whole different thing and that’s the way it works for me.

I mean I’m not classically trained, my musical theory is nothing really to write home about”¦it’s all about gut instinct and reaction and thoughts and absorbing the work. To me, that’s the only way it can be. I’m sure lots of other people work differently”¦there comes a point when you know what you’re doing right or wrong but if I’m in sort of sync with the film it’s telling me that it’s rubbish what I’m doing or it’s telling me that it’s right.

STIPP: I was going to bring that up myself as you’ve said in one interview that, at one point, “the film just said “˜no.'” Is it organic, the process of getting to this point, or is it someone like Darren telling you that it just doesn’t fit?

MANSELL: I think that it’s a learning experience.

When you write for yourself in a band you can do anything you want. On a film, though, it’s somebody else you’re collaborating with and you’ve got to lose that preciousness, that preciousness you get when you do something yourself. The first few times when the other person says something like, “Nah, I don’t like it,” at least for me anyway, it plays on your insecurities and self-doubt. I’ve been very fortunate with Darren because we work so well together and it has never come to that point, it only seems to happen to me with other people”¦going away and doing other films for those six years was really helpful for me.

I did a film, KNOCKAROUND GUYS, with these two great guys, Brian Koppelman and David Levien, both directors, and it was the first film I got because of PI, REQUIEM hadn’t come out yet and they were big fans of PI, and I was writing material for them. It was going really well, had a good time doing it, but there was this one piece of music that I kept saying, “No, no, no, it’s great.” And in the end it was Brian who eventually said, “Look, I know what you think it’s doing but believe you me it’s not doing it.” It was there I learned that if you rewrite something it’s always better than what you had before.

You just have to dig deeper sometimes.

If I don’t write for a while, the first few things I write about is shit because I’m writing on a very superficial level at that point but my memory is reminding me of things I’ve done which is better than what I’m doing right now and I’ve got to work harder, dig deeper”¦and I’m not saying it’s easy, because there are still times when I think I’ve done something I thought was pretty good and someone will say, “No.” But now I have the learned memory that that says, “Ok, you can do better, it will be better. You’ve just got to work harder.” If it was easy, everyone would be doing it. You’ve just got to get in there and not be frightened.

STIPP: How do you get to that point where you just accept that not everything out of the gate you do will be brilliant or do you still get that twinge when someone disagrees with how you initially feel about something?

MANSELL: I think that twinge goes hand in hand with the ego that’s necessary to think that you’ve got something to say and contribute anyway. If I was constantly going to go “No, no no. I think you’re right. It is shit” I would never do anything. There’s some basic desire that you’ve got stuff to put out there so when you’ve done something, and you’ve worked hard at it, and you get connected to it”¦I think there’s times when you can’t see the forest for the trees if somebody criticizes it but without that care and that passion maybe you wouldn’t be able to rise to the challenge anyway. I mean, I don’t know, I’m possibly making excuses for my own immaturity but part of the character that I am helps me create the music I do. Is there is a certain negative side to that? Yeah, I mean we all want to evolve and grow but at the same time that’s part of the equation, it helps me to do it in the first place.

STIPP: Has it helped you get to a point in your relationship with Darren, that you have a comfortable back and forth openness?

MANSELL: It’s funny because I think we argued more on this film than any other.

STIPP: Really?

MANSELL: Yeah, I mean not in a bad way. The way the score is, when I was mocking it up in demo form, it didn’t come across like it does now. A lot of the stuff was done on piano, it wasn’t done with strings but then we got it to Kronos and their strings just brought it to life. The Mogwai elements, while written by me, they were sort of estimating a Mogwai-ishness if you like. And when you put together those disparate elements it takes a while for it to gel without it sounding, not hokey”¦but melodically and thematically we were just trying to get the right vibe. It’s hard work when you take two fantastic artists you’re effectively trying to replicate with a computer. It took a little time but I knew where I was trying to take it but Darren was having trouble envisioning it from what I was giving him at the time.

[SPOILER WARNING]

So what I did was I did the whole end part of the film, where the star explodes and [Hugh] accepts his death, we mocked it up and I sent it to Mogwai. They basically recorded it themselves on top of my string arrangements. So, suddenly, we had Mogwai playing the stuff for real and when Darren heard that he said, “I got it now.”

I could see it because I knew Mogwai were capable of but Darren’s obviously putting that trust in me to say, “Ok, show me.” I say that it’s very difficult to replicate an artist like Mogwai or Kronos in a computerized world but that all sort of dissipated when we heard it for real.

STIPP: I think there’s an enormous dependence on the score just because of the first ten to fifteen minutes being so vital in creating a moment.

MANSELL: Well, what we would do is that we were all in New York together for three months, Darren was editing across the hall, I was in the room opposite him, and every Friday we would watch a new cut of the film that they were working on all week, during the week they would give me the new edits and I would be re-working the music to those edits, writing new stuff, putting it in”¦And every Friday we would watch the film and go, “What’s working? What’s not working? Do we like this? Do we like that?” By doing that I think we really managed to get a groove between the edits and the music and the pace of the film and the growth of the film. It was pretty intense work but I think that really gave it its synchronicity.

STIPP: I know, as a writer, there’s some danger of not bring able to recreate that moment that started it all after you’ve spent so long on a piece. How did you stay fresh on that moment Darren explained what this movie was going to be about?

MANSELL: Well, I saw it evolving, going places.

Working with Darren it’s not like he’s constantly chipping away at the one thing that’s not making any difference. We don’t get bogged down in little things because they’re taken care of as we go along. I mean I have worked on films where that has been an absolute nightmare. Where they’re editing, re-editing it, to the point where it’s like a ten-thousand pound gorilla in the room that no one acknowledges”¦besides the fact that the film is shit you can cut this film any way you like and nothing is going to help it. But it’s not like that with Darren. I mean things move forward, ideas progress because his films are rich in ideas.

For me, there’s something new coming through that I need to address. I mean it’s questions like, “Have we made the link between this and that?” or “Between this scene and this scene?” We sit there with pens and colored paper, this color is this theme, that color is that theme, and we put it up against every scene in the film and judge the music accordingly. We constantly move things around, it’s like a gigantic jigsaw puzzle, and eventually you get to a place you think is right.

One thing I wanted to get back to, about arguing, one thing that needs to be understood is here is how we worked: the studio wasn’t really privy to my developments of the score, they’d ask for it, but Darren won’t temp his films with other people’s work. So, it’s a slow process. We had a lot of music to draw from but, still. So, his stress levels were ten times more than mine were.

STIPP: I know you’ve mentioned you don’t really read sheet music and Darren mentioned in passing with me that he was amazed at how precise Kronos was with regard to their knowledge of precise musical movements. Was there a language barrier between you and them?

MANSELL: There was a little bit on REQUIEM but not with THE FOUNTAIN because I was more advanced than when I did REQUIEM. We were more aware of the process so we could present a much more musical job to them, if you like. Like, on REQUIEM we had a couple of issues of just getting it in sync with what I was trying to do, I mean we managed to do it, but it was done in an almost non-musical way. But the experience I’ve had on so many other films really helped me present a more professional approach, professional job to them.

STIPP: I realize you don’t need me to say it but good luck, genuinely, Monday night at the Golden Globes.

MANSELL: Thank you.

##

January 14, 2007

Interview: Ricky Gervais

Filed under: Interviews — UncaScroogeMcD @ 12:44 am

-by Ken Plume

gervais-01.jpgRicky Gervais, along with Stephen Merchant (our interview with whom you can read HERE), is the co-creator of both the original British and American versions of The Office and now two series of the BBC/HBO hit Extras – not to mention co-host of the most downloaded podcast in history.

He’s written an episode of The Simpsons, performed a pair of sold-out stand-up tours (both of which have been released on DVD in the UK as Animals and Politics, with the upcoming Fame tour completing the trifecta), co-starred in the recent big screen outings A Night At The Museum and For Your Consideration, written a pair of Flanimals books for children, and won more awards than you can shake a stick at

In Extras, Gervais stars as jobbing actor Andy Melman. The second series will begin airing on HBO this Sunday, January 14th, at 10pm, and the first series is now available on DVD.

I’ve spoken with Gervais a few times in the past, and from the comfort of my own chair, this is our latest tete-a-tete…

Warning – there are some spoilers ahead.

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QUICK STOP: Hello?

RICKY GERVAIS: Is that Ken, then?

QS: Yes, this is.

GERVAIS: Hello, it’s Ricky Gervais.

QS: Ah, it’s a pleasure to be speaking with you again.

GERVAIS: Oh, am I… have I called you again by mistake?

QS: No, we’ve spoken many times in the past.

GERVAIS: I recognize your voice, and I just did an interview, and I suddenly thought, “That voice is so familiar,” that I just called a guy back that I just did an interview with.

QS: Or my voice is just so incredibly generic that it sounds like everyman.

GERVAIS: All Americans sound the same to me.

QS: I can understand that way of thinking.

GERVAIS: No, it’s not true. I thought I just called the wrong number.  It’s very early, but is it okay if we do it a bit earlier?

QS: That is perfectly fine.

GERVAIS: When did I speak to you last?

QS: I think we spoke toward the end of 2005.

GERVAIS: Right, right.

gervais-03.jpgQS: And then we had spoken a year prior to that.

GERVAIS: Right, wow.

QS: So at this point you’re an open book to me.

GERVAIS: I know. I don’t think I’ve got anything new. Nothing’s happened!

QS: Surely there must be something new.

GERVAIS: Yeah. If not, I can just make it up and make it out that life’s a bit more glamorous than it is.

QS: And I hear all Americans are gullible, so I should believe everything.

GERVAIS: Really?  I never said that.

QS: No, but I believe that others have characterized us as such…

GERVAIS: English people think that Americans don’t have irony, and I point out that stupid people think that, because Americans do irony easily as well if not better than we do with things like The Simpsons and Larry Sanders and Arrested Development.   It’s just a ludicrous myth.  I think it’s the most popular received bit of false knowledge.  Whenever I talk to someone, they go, “The American Office is doing well, isn’t it?  Strange, because they don’t get sarcasm, do they?”  I go, “Yeah, yeah, I think they do get sarcasm.”  Like it’s some sort of genetic trait that the gene pool in America just left off the gene for sarcasm.  How would that work? (laughing)

QS: Well, surely it’s an environmental switch – with all the fast food we eat, it must have somehow turned it off.

GERVAIS: Although I do understand that over 50% of Americans believe in angels.  And that more Americans believe in ESP than evolution.

QS: Yeah, but it’d be interesting to compare the number that believe in angels with the number that believe in God.  Because I think some people just believe in angels with no religious attachment whatsoever.

GERVAIS: (laughing) What do they think they are, then?  They’re Darwinians. They’re people that sort of jumped out of trees.

QS: I would love to know what the Venn diagram is for belief in angels and belief in ghosts.

GERVAIS: I love that when two people argue, they go, “Oh, don’t be stupid. There’s no such thing as ghosts,” – But they do believe in the afterlife. There’s not ghosts – there’s angels and you go to heaven.  You don’t walk around on earth dead, you live in heaven dead.

QS: Yeah, they built some new apartment blocks, it’s great.

GERVAIS: Yeah, (laughing), exactly!!

QS: Heaven is on a big boom right now.

GERVAIS: (laughing) People are dying to get in.

QS: I hear there’s a list. That’s all purgatory is, it’s the waiting list.

GERVAIS: Yeah.  “Oh, dear. You won’t be noisy, will you?”  “No.”  “No musicians.”

QS: Can you imagine what the co-op board is like for that?

GERVAIS: Unbelievable.

QS: “Do you have an instrument?”  “No.”  “Would you like one?”

GERVAIS: That’s not good, because it is forever.

QS: “We’re putting our bliss order in – how much do you want?”

GERVAIS: (laughing)

QS: Well, I have to say, I remain shocked that you still haven’t gotten your DVDs released over in the States.

GERVAIS: I don’t know.  People can get them, but I don’t want to release them in America because I think there’s little bits and pieces that Americans might not get. Not many. I try to do everything as universal as possible. I don’t talk about things that happened in the news that week, and I try not to do too many parochial cultural references.

QS: The discs are widely pirated…

gervais-09.jpgGERVAIS: Yes, I know, but you say widely pirated – it’s probably a few Anglophiles dotted around mainly in New York and L.A., I’d suspect.  But I could be wrong.  I’d want to do it properly, really.  I’m doing a gig in America in May, and I may conflate the best of those and mostly new stuff.  I don’t want people to just get second hand goods.  And also, the more you improve, you want them to see the latest thing.  It’s there for them to get, but I think to package it up and release it as new, I think it’s giving them a 90% product just because of the things… if I was doing live work in America, I would change or leave out or…

QS: Which is completely different than the Eddie Izzard model, which is, “I will sell you everything I have ever recorded…”

GERVAIS: Mm.  Well, I can’t comment on…

QS: Can’t or won’t?

GERVAIS: (laughing) I think it’s best if I don’t comment on that.

QS: It’s great.  It’s like viewing family photos of Eddie. You can buy every phase.

GERVAIS: (laughing)

QS: He’s almost like the Bowie of comedy. “Oh, that’s his Ziggy phase…”

GERVAIS: Yeah.  Luckily, I haven’t changed my haircut for 10 years.

QS: It’s just all a matter of consistency, is what you’ve been going for.

GERVAIS: If you did a flicker book of all my pictures, the hair would stay the same, but the cheeks would just widen.

QS: That’s going to make for the easiest compilation tape ever made. You can really just combine all your stand-ups in to one uber-standup.

GERVAIS: I’ll just do a virtual one.  So I never change. And then I can just edit it to audio and just cut from one to the other and have a cartoon. That’s a great idea!

QS: Did you see what Jimmy Carr is doing?

GERVAIS: What’s that?

QS: He’s doing a gig in Second Life – the online virtual reality community…

GERVAIS: I’m not… I don’t live there.

QS: It’s basically where people walk around with these computer generated avatars and live this weird second life within this online community.   And he’s actually doing a gig online, virtually. So there’ll be a computer representation of Jimmy while he’s doing this gig live at a secret location in London.

GERVAIS: Oh, so he’s gonna do it, and it’s his audio feed?

QS: That’s going to be matched up with this digital representation of him.

GERVAIS: Right, okay.  But that’s just… okay.

QS: So it’s basically like listening to a CD with a really creepy Jimmy graphic.

GERVAIS: But that’s just like a webcast then really, but within a cartoon.

QS: Exactly, yes.

GERVAIS: And so will people… okay.  This is for nerds, surely.

QS: I can think of no other audience.

GERVAIS: (laughing) And nor can I.

QS: But he seems really keen on it.

GERVAIS: I can think of no other audience.  A Venn diagram – It’d just be one circle with the word “nerd” written in it.

QS: Yes.  “Who actually believes in angels?  And Jimmy Carr?”

GERVAIS: (laughing) That’s hilarious.

QS: I did want to ask you about your appearance at Comedy Central’s Night of Too Many Stars charity event in New York – it was the only time I had seen what I perceived as you being nervous in performance…

GERVAIS: Oh, tell me about it.  I hadn’t gigged. I’d never done that stuff before.  I followed Jerry Seinfeld. And it was the first time I’d ever played America.  So I think your perception is spot on.

QS: You picked a hell of a gig to do that!

GERVAIS: It’s mad, isn’t it?  You’re meant to frighten yourself once a day. So I did a couple of months worth in that four and a half minutes.

QS: I’ll bet you wished you believed in angels then.

GERVAIS: I know. They were… yeah.

QS: But you seemed to get comfortable about halfway through it, and go with the rhythm.

GERVAIS: Yeah.  I just think that… do you know what, though?  You say that it’s a hell of a gig, but actually, the audience on those things are very, very generous. If they’d have paid $50 to see me, and I wasn’t ready, then that’s despicable – but when they know that everyone’s thrown in and sort of doing it, they’re actually a very very generous crowd. And for me, a bigger crowd is better than a small crowd. I’d rather play to five thousand people than five.

QS: When you mentioned Jerry Seinfeld preceding you, do you still feel intimidated around performers like that?

GERVAIS: No, I heard he said he couldn’t follow me.  He insisted he went on first.

QS: What a prick.

GERVAIS: (laughing) Oh god…

QS: I’ll bet they were all throwing themselves in front of you.

GERVAIS: Yeah. I didn’t get to meet him, either.  I think he was in and out. He’s sort of as good as it gets in terms of quality, size, fame, and adoration.  And so yeah, I was watching him backstage, and I was laughing, because he’s brilliant, and I was going, “Oh, I wish I’d already been on!” (laughing)

QS: How surreal was it to have Steve Carell, in character, doing a piece?

GERVAIS: Oh, he’s great.  I love Steve Carell. He’s got a likeable face.  So has Jerry Seinfeld. I think that’s the secret to film comedy, having a likeable face. If people like you, you’re already halfway there.

QS: What was that really odd experiment they did in the UK a few months back, where they determined what the ultimate comedy face would look like?

GERVAIS:  And it came out me.  Now the thing about that is, I looked at the list of all the comedy greats they got in to come to me, and at least 50% of them were fat, round-faced blokes.

QS: And one of them was Jo Brand.

GERVAIS: And one of them was Dawn French! So when they say, “the perfect comedian is Ricky Gervais, he’s got a round face and so many features,” well that’s because you’ve been using round-faced women! (laughing)

QS: And yet they said nothing about perfectly round heads.

gervais-08.jpgGERVAIS: Karl Pilkington…

QS: I had a nice conversation about Karl with Steve Merchant yesterday.

GERVAIS: I was with Karl last night.  He came round.  His girlfriend said to him, “Tell them your theory.”  He went, “Well, all it is was I was thinking, right, how did we make that quantum leap from chimpanzee to humans?”  I went, “I’ll stop you there. It’s not a quantum leap.  We actually share more genetic material with chimpanzees than chimpanzees do with gorillas.”  He went, “Well okay, then how’d you get to that?” I said, “Well it’s not a quantum leap.  It’s a gradual process.”  He’s going, “No, no.”  I went, “Well, what’s your theory?”  He went, “Well, I was thinking, how did we get that brain?”  I went, “Well, it evolved.”  He went, “No. That brain… what if we got that from aliens?”  I went, “What are you talking about?”  He went, “Well, what if there was some… like, a brain in space?”  And I said, “What the fuck does that mean?  How will it live in space?”  He went, “It can.”  I went, “Well, it can’t.  It can’t without…” He went, “Yeah, well, somehow it can.”  I went, “Well, that’s not a theory. To go, ‘somehow it can’ – that’s not a theory.”

QS: Or it’s the most profound leap, almost quantum leap, in logic you can make.

GERVAIS: It’s amazing.  He says that often – he just says, “and something happens.”  He had that idea for the watch that counts down and tells you how long you’ve got left.  And I went, “How would it work?”  He went, “You just wear it on your wrist.”  I went, “No, that’s not how it works, that’s where you wear it.  How does it work?”  He went, “It just does.”  I went, “Well, that’s no idea at all then, Karl.”  Imagine him going to the patent office with that one…

QS: Is it like Schrödinger’s Karl?  Does he exist if no one observes him?

GERVAIS: Well, some people think that he is an invention.

QS: I had this argument with John Hodgman, who I put in contact with you for that New York Times piece a few months back.  We’ve had this running argument about the truth of Karl…

GERVAIS: Well, all I’ll say is this – if he’s putting it on, he puts it on 24 hours a day. He’s incredible.  He’s absolutely incredible.

QS: Have you spoken to anyone who’s encountered him during his childhood, or did he just arrived fully formed?

GERVAIS: No.  I think I knew one person who knew him when he was about 14, and he just said he had hair then. That was the big difference.

QS: Karl made quite an impression on people, then.

GERVAIS: (laughing) Oh, god!

QS: “I remember him, he had hair.”

GERVAIS: “He had hair!” But no, it’s a joy because he’s always got something to say. He’s always got an opinion on… we did the Christmas podcast, which went live on Christmas day, and we were just talking about stuff.  We were talking about the three wise men.  On the podcast he talks about the three wise men giving him gifts. And he was going, “The trouble is, for the one who brought gold, what did he get him next year?  He said, ‘Have some myrrh, and then you can get something better next year.'”  And afterwards we were talking about the gifts, and he said, “Were those presents for his birthday or Christmas?”  Which is an amazing question. And I said, “Well, his birthday, because Christmas wasn’t invented yet, was it?”

QS: It’s a weird sort of logic line that he dances…

GERVAIS: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.  He’s incredible.  But the Christmas podcast is one of my favorites because it’s… I don’t know, it’s sort of looking back, and there’s some closure to it, because we decided it’s going to be the last one for a while, and it’s quite sweet in a way.  It’s quite sweet when you give him a chance to talk. (laughing)…

QS: It’s almost become this thing where it’s like when the aunts show up at Christmas day, and they bring the child out to perform.  Like, “Did you see the cute thing that he said today?  Say the cute thing that you said!”

GERVAIS: I do feel that I’m like Anthony Hopkins in The Elephant Man.  That I’m taking this oddity around.  Oh, talking of that – that’s his favorite film. And you know the bit where John Merrick is displayed to all the surgeons at the Royal College by the screen and he’s naked, and he goes, “See the deformation of the skull and the spinal column and the limbs.”  And he says, “The genitals are unaffected.”  Right?  And Karl went, “Think of that – the one thing you would want like an elephant, and he got the head.” (laughing)

QS: Has anyone ever given Karl an IQ test?

GERVAIS: That’s a very… that’s incredible that you should say that, because Karl’s doing a thing for Channel Four. It’s called a Comedy Lab.  It was the first thing me & Steve did, a Comedy Lab, and he’s got his own Comedy Lab where you get some money and you make a half hour thing, and he’s making this documentary about whether knowledge is bad for you.  He’s got that theory…

QS: Right….

GERVAIS: So I did an introduction where I said it’s ludicrous, because he’s always grumpy.  I’ve never seen him happy. And he’s stupid, so I don’t know what point he’s trying to make. And he took a Mensa test yesterday.

QS: He did?

GERVAIS: Yeah. And it was incredible, because he was talking to us last night about it, and he was going, “It was really weird.  The first one was easy, and then it kicked in, and I didn’t know what was going on. They were asking this stuff like, ‘If Jack and Janet got married what would be baby be called?'”  And I went, “What?” And there was no question like that.  He just couldn’t even remember the questions.  And he went, “Oh, that was doing me head in.”  He said, “At one point, I looked over, and one woman had finished and she was doing Soduku in her own time.”   (laughing)

QS:  It almost makes you think he was wondering, “God, if I could get this done, I could have play time in the field…”

GERVAIS: Well, exactly. Except there was an 11 year old kid there who didn’t look like he was having too much trouble.  I predicted he’d do quite well on it, but I was wrong. Because I thought… I said, “Well, one, they are obviously class biased. There’s lots of stuff, word play and things about the English language and word recognition. So the only true one is like shape recognition, in a way, and maths, If you can understand the question. And I thought he’d do quite well.  In fact, I said, “Well, he’s got a good brain – he’s just never used it.”  But apparently he’s got three percent, if he’s lucky! (laughing)  But I’m going to open the envelope with him for the documentary, so he doesn’t know. It’s in a couple of weeks time.  But that’s so strange you said that.

QS: But there’s a difference between a standard IQ test and a Mensa test…

GERVAIS: Well, of course.  The Mensa test is for nerds who want to prove something…

QS: It’s an ego test more than anything else.

GERVAIS: Well, of course it’s an ego test – and also, you can get good at them. You can learn the tricks and all this sort of stuff.  I don’t know why he’d want to say, “I’ve got an IQ of 180,” or whatever.  I’m sure there are purer I.Q. tests… because obviously Karl, I think, is a very intelligent person.  He sees the world differently. He’s very creative. He’s very, very funny.  But he has a problem with simple concepts.  He cannot understand the monkey-typewriter thing. I was going, “Listen, it’s not to be taken literally. It’s a model of the nature of infinity.  No one’s gonna sit a monkey down with a typewriter.”  I was going, “It’s like this: there are many even numbers as even and odd numbers put together.  There’s no understanding of that other than infinity means forever. So anything can happen.”  He went, “Well, I don’t even know what that means.”  I went, “What?”   Have you heard his discussion about monkeys and typewriters?

QS: Yes I have…

gervais-10.jpgGERVAIS: Have you seen it on the Politics DVD?

QS: Yes…

GERVAIS: It’s phenomenal when he says, “I’ve never seen anything published by a monkey,” as proof it would never happen.

QS: He’s never read The Guardian.

GERVAIS: (laughing)  He doesn’t quite understand the concept.  I think he doesn’t understand the concept of infinity.  You have to concentrate when someone says infinity, and all that entails. And I just think…

QS: I view Karl more as a far too concrete thinker as opposed to… he wants to put it in concrete terms, this view of infinity… like the alien brain thing.

GERVAIS: I don’t know, you see.  I think sometimes he’s got a real fluidity to his thought, and he’s not constrained by it.  Because if you tell him something, the question he asks, you couldn’t predict. It wouldn’t come up if you asked a hundred children. The question he asks is never the one that you think anyone would ask, and it’s always hilarious.  For example, I told him about a story in the paper that I thought he’d be interested in.  It was a chimpanzee, an adolescent chimpanzee, that had a fight with its father in the zoo, and it had escaped. It had an argument and escaped. The point was, he’s an adolescent – not a human being.  Karl said, “What was the argument about?”  See, there’s no way you’d be thinking that when I told you it. There’s no way that you were thinking… because you were already thinking about, “What’s the connotations, what’s the higher level, what are we talking about here?” There’s no way you’d think, “Was it about the remote control or you’ve got to go to bed early?”  Whereas he thought… he just… he personifies things too readily.

QS: But it goes back to trying to make things concrete and identifiable as things  that exist within his world.

GERVAIS: I… well, yes, I suppose…I suppose he does then. Yeah, he has to…

QS: Sort of like a kid with a blow pipe shooting down balloons or something.  He’s got to find a way to ground things within his domain.

GERVAIS: Yes, to make sense in his world. But he quite happily dismisses things. You can be telling him something, and if he doesn’t like it, it won’t get in. He doesn’t go, “What do you mean?” – He thinks, “That’s not for me. I don’t get it.  It’s too vacuum packed.  It doesn’t matter.  Forget it.” And he’ll shut off. I’ll lose him.  I’ll lose him halfway through the first sentence.

QS: How do you know when you’re losing him?  Do you see the light go off in his eyes?

GERVAIS: Yeah, he looks bored. I know he’s thinking of something else.  He’s thinking of another word I’d said, and he’s gone off on a tangent. I can see it happen. I can actually see it happen. I’d love to be able to download a flow chart of the word that I lost him at and what he was thinking of.  Sometimes I say, “What are you thinking of?”  And I’m right.  It’s like Homer Simpson.  It’s like Homer Simpson.  We were talking to him once about bringing back a mammoth to life, right?

QS: Right…

GERVAIS: And I thought he’s be interested in that. And he went, “Really?”  And he was too interested. And I went, “Yeah.”  He went, “A man moth.”  I went, “Not a man moth! What do you mean a man moth?”  He went, “Well I thought…” I said, “What were you thinking of when you thought it was a man moth?”  He said, “I thought it was a moth with a bloke’s head bumping into a lamp.”

QS: So he went the extra step of putting the man moth within a natural context.

GERVAIS: Yeah. And, he can download his thoughts. You might be right.  So he can actually… so he doesn’t have nebulous concepts or symbolism doesn’t matter… he doesn’t understand metaphor and analogy.

QS: Has anyone given him a Rorschach test?

GERVAIS: Well, that would be amazing.  Because I think he’d say, “It looks like someone spilled some ink.”  I think you might be right, actually.

QS: I would be fascinated if someone actually gave him a Rorschach test, and  what his instantaneous response would be. I think you’re right, as well.

GERVAIS: He’ll never be hypnotized. That’s dangerous. He’ll never… I mean it’s incredible what he will and won’t do.  But I’ve never met someone who’s so fascinating to talk… down to.  I never met anyone who made me feel so clever!

QS: What would Karl as a child have been like?

GERVAIS: I think he was a very intelligent kid.  I think one of those inquisitive, always working, always thinking, wanting to make stuff, wanting to take things apart kinds.  I think that shows quite a natural intelligence. And I imagine he was like that.  I still think he’s intelligent.  I still think he’s a very, very original thinker.  I think he’s got a real grasp of certain things, but I think you’re right; the more practical something is, the better he is at it.  If you said, “Here’s the thing – this is the best way to do it,” I think he’d always be in the top half of the class.  I really do think you’re right, actually.  I think the more concrete and the more literal… and the more… see, here’s the thing.  If it’s actually applicable to a real situation, he’ll do better. There’s a psychological test to prove that.  You know the one where they say, “You’ve got some playing cards. There’s four playing cards. Some have blue backs, some have red backs, some are even numbers, some are odd numbers. Even numbers have blue backs.”  And it’s, “What cards do you have to turn over to test the theory?” And so, you go, “Well, if you’re just testing that theory, you’d want to test a red card because you’d want to see if that theory was true, and you want to check the backs of even numbers. You don’t have to check the blue ones, because it’s not saying that have to be blue, etc.  But that’s quite a… people don’t score very high on that, right?  But when you say, “Everyone in this bar has to be over 21 to drink alcohol, what do you test?”  Well, you test the people under 21, what they’re drinking, and you test alcoholic drinks. You don’t need to test the soft drinks, and you don’t need to test… and people get that a lot easier, because it’s applicable to a real life rule.

QS: It’s a known context.

GERVAIS: Exactly. So I think you’re right.  I think Karl would do those really well.  He’d score high. Well, that’s why they teach kids… “If you have three potatoes and I took one away, how many would you have?”  Because there’s a fantastic experiment they did with chimpanzees. So they’d have beads, okay?  A big pile of beads and a small pile of beads.  And the chimp learned that when he chose the small pile of beads, he got a grape. So what one do you want?  Small pile.  Great.  Brilliant at it. When they did it with grapes, he couldn’t not choose the big pile.  Even though he didn’t get any, he’d slap his head and go mad, and they’d give him the choice again, he always chose the big pile and missed out on the rewards.  Because it was overwhelming.  The reality was bigger than the concept. Oh my god, that’s what I should do with Karl!  I should do it with money, with beads, and then do it with real money.

QS: Oh, please tell me you’ll do that.

GERVAIS: (laughing) No even I know he’d get that one right.

QS: Oh, come on.

GERVAIS: (laughing) Oh god!

QS: You’ve got a DVD for Fame coming up soon.  You gotta have some kind of bonus feature on it with Karl again…

GERVAIS: I’m going to tell Karl, I’m going to say, “I met a journalist who thinks you’re even more stupid than I do.”

QS: Give him my number.

GERVAIS: I’d love you to speak to him.

gervais-02.jpgQS: Are you surprised that he’s become sort of a cult figure? It’s almost like a modern Kilroy. 

GERVAIS: I’ve worked my hardest to make sure it happens, and I haven’t stopped yet. In fact, in the latest podcast, the Christmas podcast, I say to people, “Get a picture of Karl Pilkington, and put it up in your window. If you go in a shop, put a big one up.” I want him to be so famous, so people see him on the street and say, “Look at your stupid round, bald head.” And he just went, “Ah, that’ll be good then.”

QS: Has Karl ever been to the United States?

GERVAIS: Yes, he went to L.A. as a holiday, and he went to Ripley’s three times.

QS: What, did he not take it all in on the first trip?

GERVAIS: No, he just wanted to see the two headed goat three times, I think.

QS: And, of course, there’s nothing else in L.A. to do…

GERVAIS: Yeah, I know! (laughing) Yeah!  You’re only in a place where it’s 80 degrees every day. And you go into Ripley’s to see some things in jars!

QS: You should tell him there’s a Ripley’s near Dollywood, too.

GERVAIS: (laughing) Yes, he is a phenomenon.

QS: It’s almost a shame that you don’t take a tour of Karl Pilkington’s America.  Put him in a car or team him up with someone…

GERVAIS: I can just have a Karl Camp.  I would watch a TV show that was just Karl walking around. It’d be amazing.

QS: Do you think Karl leads some kind of secret life, or has some sort of secret desire that no one knows about?

GERVAIS: Uh…

QS: Would anything surprise you at this point?

GERVAIS: No.  No, I don’t believe that. I spoke to him the other day.  He said, “I got up, and then I was washing up, and then I noticed there was no milk.  So I went to the shop.” He went, “I had a conversation with a woman in the corner shop and everything. I came back, I had my breakfast, walked past a mirror…”  He had a cotton bud still in his ear.  And he went, “So why didn’t she tell me I had a cotton bud in my ear?”  I said, “What, you’re angry with someone who didn’t tell you you had a cotton bud stuck in your ear?  Surely that’s your responsibility, Karl.”  I said, “Well, what did you do that you’re halfway through, something else got your attention, and you didn’t even bother pulling it out before you did whatever… how can you do that?  How can you forget there’s a cotton bud in your ear?” Unbelievable.

QS: It’s like profound ignorance.

GERVAIS: (laughing) Yeah it is, yeah.

QS: It’s not lack of an intelligence, it’s just profound ignorance.

GERVAIS: Yeah, it’s incredible.  But again, his take on the story, the reason he was telling me that story was how stupid the woman in the shop was for not telling him.

QS: Does Karl believe in angels?  He believes in aliens, obviously – they bring monkey brains.

GERVAIS: He believes in aliens. He think’s it’s possible… but you know what, though?  Believing in aliens is not the same as believing in ESP and God and ghosts and that, because at least… my concession to Karl is that it’s possible.  It’s possible with aliens.  I just say it’s improbable.

QS: That they’re seeding monkey brains to create human brains…

GERVAIS: (laughing) Yeah!  It’s so insane.  “Well how did they survive?”  “They just did.”  I’d love him to write a book on science.

QS: I would just love to know what happens when the brains land.

GERVAIS: Yeah, how do they get in there?

QS: Are these empty headed humans walking around going, “Oh, this’ll fit.”

GERVAIS: Yeah, that’s it – he said they got in somehow. They got in “somehow.”  Yeah, I’m sure they did, Karl.

QS: It’d be great to actually have him teach a science course.

GERVAIS: It’s be amazing, wouldn’t it?

QS: Sit him down with a book and give him a lesson plan that a teacher would have during the year, and say, “Okay, now you instruct the class.”

GERVAIS: Him and Stephen Hawking, in discussion.

QS: Why hasn’t anyone arranged that yet?

GERVAIS: I don’t know.

QS: Stephen would probably do it.

GERVAIS: You’ve got a lot of clout, haven’t you?

QS: Oh, yeah, sure.

GERVAIS: Doesn’t he live over there?  Where is Stephen Hawking? Oh, he lives in England, doesn’t he?

QS: Well, he divides his time.

GERVAIS: I know Matt Groening could get him.

QS: You set the two of them down.  If you could meet Larry David, you could easily have Karl meet Stephen Hawking.

GERVAIS: So I did a show, and Stephen Hawking came on to present an award I was getting…

QS: This was the British Comedy Awards…

GERVAIS: That’s right, yeah.  Stephen Hawking was there, and it took a little bit of time for him to do the thing.

QS: Who knew he’d go long?

GERVAIS: (laughing) Well, Karl said he’s got to get broadband.(laughing)

QS: It was an awkward joy to see Matt Groening standing there, desperately trying not to look at his watch.

GERVAIS: Well, I mentioned it.  I went up and said, “You know, he may be a genius, but he’s got to have it ready.”

gervais-06.jpgQS: I noticed even in his moment of triumph, you had to make Steve’s British Comedy Award all about you…

GERVAIS: How do you know so much about England?

QS: The beauty of the internet age.

GERVAIS: Oh wow.

QS: So, watching shows like Jonathan Ross all the time. I’m surprised Jonathan never made a go in the U.S. …

GERVAIS: Yeah, I had to get in the fact that it’s such a chavvy program, isn’t it?  It really is.

QS: It’s like a more erudite, intelligent Graham Norton.

GERVAIS: Jesus, that’s… oh my god, that’s damning.  Being less intelligent and erudite than the British Comedy Awards.  Jesus Christ.  That’d be the worst thing you could ever say about someone, I think.

QS: The weird thing about the British Comedy Awards, is I love seeing the portion when the award goes to an American.  Groening will call out the provincial nature of the British comedy scene, and I forgot who called it out last year, by saying, “Who are you people?”

GERVAIS: Oh, Matt Groening did a great line. “I’ve never been in a room with so many famous people I’ve never heard of.”  Classic.  Brilliant.  Because that’s how I see the perception of my peers.

QS: It’s almost like viewing this sort of Petri dish of entertainment.  “Who are Ant & Dec? Oh, Okay.”

GERVAIS: The thing is for me I think it’s easy to become famous in England.  The leveler is, can you cut it, can you make it global, can you do a product that travels…

QS: All you have to do is make it onto the new edition of Big Brother and you’re famous in the UK.

GERVAIS: Yeah, exactly. It’s easy to become famous, isn’t it?

QS: As long as you’re on shows like 8 Out Of 10 Cats

GERVAIS: Oh my gosh, shivers down my spine that you’ve heard of all these things.

QS: That’s what I say about trying to introduce the US audience to various shows.  I’m surprised you’ve never been on a show like QI, which would seem like a good venue for you…

GERVAIS: I like it. I do like that show.  But the reason I don’t do it is because I think… well one I don’t want to pop up on telly too much unless I actually have to.  I did the British Comedy Awards because they told me Stephen had won.  The truth is, I could have stayed here for it, but I thought, “Any excuse to get out of the country…” (laughing)

QS: I love how you’re treating it like a small town…

GERVAIS: I do.

QS: It’s like, “I’ve got to get to the big city.”

GERVAIS: I lived in Redding, and I had to make it to London, but now I feel…

QS: “This country, it’s a bit too provincial for me…”

GERVAIS: (laughing) Exactly, yeah.  England’s about as big as Maine, isn’t it?

QS: “I hear there’s something across water that’s really big and inviting. It’s fast.”

gervais-11.jpgGERVAIS: But you know, some people don’t think that way.  The ones that do, they sort of go to America and try and make it.   But they’re trying to make on their own terms, as opposed to just coming out with a product that’s universal.  It’s very strange… but then again, we’ve got a different attitude, really.  Americans are brought up to believe they can become the president of the United States, and we’re told, “Don’t be so silly. Get a load of you.”

QS: Do you think that, in the UK, the audiences don’t dispose of entertainers as quickly?  It seems in the US we seem to cycle through entertainers very quickly and forget about them, whereas in the UK, it seems like people can have much longer careers…

GERVAIS: That’s strange, because I think the opposite.  I think that entertainers here have a shelf life of a couple of years, and then if they hang around there’s no excitement about them, they just hang on.

QS: It seems you can make a career out of just appearing on panel shows in the UK.

GERVAIS: Absolutely… absolutely, yeah.  There’s no distinction… I see things that, when they come on, they’re the biggest thing for a year.  And it changes every single year. Then they come up with something not as good as the first thing they did, then they do the other thing they did again, and they do another special, and they go, “Oh, we’re back…” but we’ve moved on now.  It usually happens to people that will sort of do anything, and try and widen the demographic. Particularly with comedy, as soon as you get seven year olds liking your comedy, I just think we’re doing something wrong.

QS: Obviously you’ve followed that model of moving on as quickly as you can and not dwelling… Steve mentioned that Extras is pretty much sealed at this point, right?

GERVAIS: Yeah, we’re not gonna do another one.  Yeah. We’re gonna move on.

QS: And the podcast is on moratorium.

GERVAIS: I think the podcast… we’ll definitely come back with another couple of specials of podcast but we’ll leave it a while. There’d be no reason to stop that, because it’s not like we’ve got global saturation with podcast. It’s still very cult, and it’s still very nice, and we still enjoy it. We might do another couple over the next year or we might do ten over the next two years.  Who knows?  But we’re gonna leave it for a while. Extras, I think, is almost certainly complete now.  Although there is talk of a possible US remake.

QS: Really?

GERVAIS: Yeah, that’s the best of both worlds for me. You do your piece, it’s totally yours, and you put everything you’ve got into that project.  Exhaust yourself, exhaust the pile, and then someone else takes that and runs with it, and that’s great. It’s brilliant. I love the American Office. I love what they’ve done with it.  I love how they keep me involved as, like, an honorary member of the team. It’s all their work after the initial few months and that initial episode and the one we wrote, it’s been all theirs.  It’s a joy. It’s great.  It lives on. It’s like reincarnation.

QS: So, you do believe in angels.

GERVAIS: Steve Carell is an angel.  That’s what my bank manager said.

QS: Or he’s a ghost.

GERVAIS: (laughing)

QS: Does the UK Office exist within the same universe as the U.S. Office?  Is there a Slough office across the ocean in that universe?

GERVAIS: Well, that was what we tried to do. When they sat down and Ben Silverman met me, he just had a coffee with me.  I’d never heard of him. He just said, “I love the show. I’d love to remake it.”  I never thought it would be remade, and everything that had ever gone before The Office since about 1975 has been an abysmal failure.  I think the last two successful things were All in the Family and Sanford and Son, wasn’t it?

QS: Yeah…

GERVAIS: Just abysmal…

QS: They tried Men Behaving Badly here in the U.S. and that failed.

GERVAIS: Coupling… all these things, you know?  And so I thought, “Yeah, fine.”  I kept to a distance, but I did realize that we were asked to direct it. They wanted me to even be in it at one point, and I said, “Well, that’s ridiculous. Why would I do that?”  So I knew it had to be by Americans for Americans.  It was the right thing to do, and they seemed to be doing everything right.  So no, it’s great.

QS: Do you ever see Steve Carell bumping into David Brent at a paper convention at some point?

GERVAIS: You know what?  Again, I’m never gonna say never, and if I ever did bring David Brent back, it would be a tiny little in-joke in the American Office. I wanted him to be watching Extras.  I want him to be watching Extras and for him to go, “I like this guy.”  And I want Steve Carell to go, “Meh. He’s not so good.”  Or maybe he could go, “Yeah, I don’t like this version. They should do an American version. I’d be good at that.”

QS: What I find interesting, is can you think of any instance… I was wracking my brain, besides game shows, to think of any instances of a US show translated to the UK.

GERVAIS: Uh… Jesus.  I just think we think, “What’s the point?”  I mean, I don’t know why Americans have to have a remake anyway.

QS: Well remember, we’re the ones who remade Fawlty Towers with Cloris Leachman.

GERVAIS: They’ve had a couple of goes at that, haven’t they?

QS: Yeah.  One was with John Larroquette, from Night Court.

GERVAIS: I’d love to see an English 24.  It would be a lot slower, and go, “Look, we’ve got plenty of time, don’t worry about it.”

QS: Isn’t that essentially MI-5?

gervais-07.jpgGERVAIS: Yeah. It’s funny, ’cause I was speaking to Joel Surnow.  I went down there, I just did a little thing for the gag reel.  I’d spoke to him. His phone cut out.  He called me back.  My phone cut out. I phoned him back and I said, “This doesn’t happen in fucking 24, does it?”

QS: Well, just wait til you see the end of this season. I hear hour 23 is all just him walking around going, “Can you hear me now?”

GERVAIS: (laughing) Right!  “Look – text me.”

QS: “No, I’m not going through a tunnel. Do you have a landline?”

GERVAIS: “So annoying.”

QS: If you had the desire or ability to want to remake a US show, is there any that you love enough that you would say, “I’d like to have a go at that kind of comedy?”

GERVAIS: It would have to be one that no one’s ever heard of over here and never would, because I’d just think, “What’s the point?”  Why remake a great show, and why remake a bad show?  I don’t know, really.

QS: With that logic there would be no U.S. Office.

GERVAIS: No, but it’s a bit different that we accept everything American, whereas Americans, I think they accept everything American, too.

QS: Well, see, we’re exactly alike.

GERVAIS: Is it true that 90% of Americans don’t have passports?

QS: I believe that is absolutely true.

GERVAIS: That’s amazing.  That’s amazing. But you know what?  America is pretty much the world.

QS: The way I look at that is, you can almost understand it, based on the size of the country…

GERVAIS: Well, exactly. You don’t really need to go… what do you need…

QS: And trust me, if you go to Texas, it is like another country.

GERVAIS: Well, exactly. And people in England go abroad because they want to get a bit of sun, or they want a different climate. They don’t want to particularly meet Spanish people.  We’re the worst. We go abroad and we just point and talk louder.  There’s no… we learn “beer” in four different languages.  That’s really it.

QS: We’re the ones walking around with the books trying to be multicultural and failing miserably, with the Canadian flags on our back.

GERVAIS: (laughing) Yeah.

QS: Because we may be fat, but we’re not stupid.

GERVAIS: Are Americans more hated than English people now in the world, do you think?

QS: I think that the tenor of conversation if you identify yourself as American is different, yes.

GERVAIS: Wow. All I can say is thank god for the French. (laughing)

QS: The only thing worse than the French are the French Canadians.

GERVAIS: I’m half French Canadian, so I’m in trouble there.

QS:  Well it’s only half, so you’ve somehow diluted it out. No, the pure French Canadians are the ones that manage to take the ego of the French and multiply it.

GERVAIS: And put it in a much bigger country! (laughing)

QS: Literally, it’s a sad little world to enter into. Have you ever been back to Quebec?

GERVAIS: No, I’ve only been to Vancouver for three days, with Mr. Stiller.  This sums up my first Hollywood film… They flew me and my girlfriend over.  First class. Put us up in the best hotel in Vancouver. Went to the set.  There, I’m in this huge trailer. Ridiculous.  Shawn Levy comes over and goes, “Hi folks!  Great to have you here.  Is everything okay?  Is your trailer okay?”  I went, “Oh my god. The trailer’s bigger than my hotel room.” He said, “Do you want a bigger hotel room?”  I could get used to that sort of treatment. That’s the problem, isn’t it?  I went, “No, it’s huge!  No, they’re brilliant! They’re great!”

QS: That’s a problem I could get used to.

GERVAIS: That’s the problem with us English. We walk into a trailer and we go, “Oh my god, all this for me? I’m embarrassed. This is terrible.”

QS: The great difference, if you go to France as an English speaker, is they’ll look down at you because they don’t deign to learn English.

GERVAIS: Well, why should they?

QS: The French Canadians, though – they know English, and they refuse to speak it.

GERVAIS: They did learn it, that’s the difference.  English people didn’t even learn it – we just think “No, no – they can learn it. (laughing)

QS: Has Karl been abroad? He’s been to Spain before…

GERVAIS: No, he’s been abroad, yeah.

QS: How does Karl act? Is he one of the loud talkers or does he just kind of exist?

GERVAIS: I can’t imagine Karl acting differently in any situation. I honestly can’t. It wouldn’t matter if he was in space. He’d go, “Huh?”

QS: But for someone who is so profoundly uninterested in learning new things, what does he get out of it…

GERVAIS: He’s not, though. He’s fascinated with the things he’s fascinated with, and that’s it. He can’t get enough of insects, and he can’t get enough of aliens, and he’s fascinated with theories and…

QS: Do cultures intrigue him?

GERVAIS: He’s not interested in any form of anything artistic or cultural.  He thinks it’s ridiculous.

QS: So a trip through the Louvre would be lost on him.

GERVAIS:  I think I could get him into anything.  I think I could get him into something. I’d just have to find the right angle.  I feel like I’m in one of those schmaltzy films about teachers who turn ’round inner city kids by talking to them in rap.

QS: You realize that you’ve just about remade Pygmalion.

GERVAIS: I’ve thought about that.

gervais-12.jpgQS: My Fair Karl.

GERVAIS: I’ve thought about that.  Yeah, Pilkmalion. I’ve actually thought that would be amazing to do.  But what could I pass him off as?

QS: I don’t know. Have you tried putting hair on him?

GERVAIS: I wouldn’t pass him off… it wouldn’t be a class thing. I’d pass him off as a great thinker.

QS: You know what the thing is, though?

GERVAIS: He already is.

QS: I think he’s so eccentric that he could very easily be passed off as, like, a college professor.

GERVAIS: I think I’d have to have him talk about… no, it’d have to be something hard. It’s have to be something like…

QS: Like String Theory?

GERVAIS: No, not that, he could get caught out straight away. That would be impossible. He’d actually have to learn.

QS: What about insect behavior?

GERVAIS: What about philosophy?  Where we teach him to say, “I don’t have a formal philosophy. Don’t give me Plato, don’t give me Kant, there’s all flaws in that.”  And then they’d just say, “Well, what do you think about so and so?”  He goes, “What do you mean, exactly?”

QS: Or, “That is the question.”

GERVAIS: He’d put it back to them, like, “Right, ask that question again as if you’re asking a 10 year old child without a brain.”  So it’d look like he was teaching them to ask the question correctly.

QS: Oh, that’d be brilliant.

GERVAIS: That’s what he’d have to say.  He’d give them a get-out – “Now, ask that question again. Now, you’re coming from a very educated middle class point of view there. Now, ask that question again like you’re talking to a retarded ten year old.”

QS: “Have you really thought this through?”

GERVAIS: (laughing) Make them look like an idiot. Just make them always feel like the idiot.

QS: I think you could pull that off.

GERVAIS: It would always leave on a poignant matter…

QS: But the thing is, if you took Karl, taught him that, and took him to like an American college where they hadn’t heard of him on the podcast or anything, you could sit him down in front of a philosophy class and it would work…

GERVAIS: Give him a fake CV the night before.  Make up an award that he’s been given for things he’s doing… make up some amazing quotes…

QS: “He’s a fellow from so-and-so university in the UK.  We brought him over here to give a lecture to the class.”

GERVAIS: And it’s called Free Your Mind.  I love it.

QS: I think you can pull that off.

GERVAIS: I really would like Karl to talk to you. I mean, for the sake of it.

QS: I would love to do a nice big feature on him.

GERVAIS: I’ll tell him.  In fact, I’ll make him.

QS: And like I said, get him out in front of the US audience a bit more.

GERVAIS: He won’t do that. I want to bring him on stage and just ask him questions, and he was going, “No, no.”  He went, “Ridiculous.”

QS: Now, if you bring him in front of that U.S. philosophy class…

GERVAIS: That would be so much fun.  Maybe as a DVD extra.

QS: There are plenty of colleges in the U.S. to bring him to.  Bring him to a nice Midwestern one.

GERVAIS: Okay!

gervais-05.jpg

January 9, 2007

Interview: Stephen Merchant

Filed under: Interviews — UncaScroogeMcD @ 5:52 am

-by Ken Plume

merchant-01.jpgAs co-creator of both the original British and American versions of The Office and now two series of the BBC/HBO hit Extras – not to mention co-host of the most downloaded podcast in history – you’d think more people would know the name Stephen Merchant.

Considering his collaborator on all of those projects is a rather larger-than-life chap named Ricky Gervais, you’d be forgiven for overlooking the other half of this remarkable comedic double act – even if Merchant does clock in at an impressive 17 feet tall (or maybe it’s only 6’7 – still, a veritable giant).

A BAFTA and Emmy Award-winner, Merchant has also recently won a British Comedy Award for his on-camera roll as the endearingly clueless agent of jobbing actor Andy Melman (Gervais), Darren Lamb, in Extras.

Speaking of Extras, the second series will begin airing on HBO this Sunday, January 14th, at 10pm, and the first series is now available on DVD. Merchant is also launching a music show on BBC 6 Music starting on the 14th, running Sundays from 3-5pm.

I recently sat down at my desk, phone in hand, and had a chat with Stephen about The Office, Extras, working with Ricky Gervais, podcasts, and the enigma that is Karl Pilkington. Warning – there are some spoilers ahead.

merchant-02.jpg

QS: Hello?

MERCHANT: Hello, is Kenneth available?

QS: This is he.

MERCHANT: It’s Steve Merchant calling.

QS: It’s a pleasure to be speaking with you.

MERCHANT: Thank you very much, and you…

QS: Would you prefer Stephen, or Mr. Merchant, or award-winning actor Mr. Stephen Merchant?

MERCHANT: I would obviously prefer all of those. I think Steve’s fine.

QS: Or I can change it up as we go along.

MERCHANT: If you wouldn’t mind, that would be good, yeah… just to get progressive.  So in the end it’s just Sir or Lord.

QS: I could do that.

MERCHANT: Lord Merchant.

QS: Actually sounds pretty good…

MERCHANT: Mm.  If I do more charity work I’m hoping I’ll get there eventually

QS: If Jonathan Ross can get an OBE…

MERCHANT: Exactly.

QS: I think anything is possible.

MERCHANT: Exactly, for goodness sake.

QS: Congratulations on the British Comedy Award.

MERCHANT: Yes, I am officially the best comic actor in Britain for a year.

QS: Is there a changeover ceremony where last year’s best comic actor has to actually give you some kind of cup or something?

MERCHANT: No, it’s rather ignoble. You just go there, and if perhaps you’re nominated again, you just find out there and then if you’ve won again.

QS: Or that somehow your talent has waned through the year…

MERCHANT: Exactly.  Exactly.  I always remember Jerry Seinfeld making a gag about the fact that he was nominated for playing himself in Seinfeld and he won one year, and the following year he didn’t win, and he made a joke about how he had obviously not played himself as convincingly that year as he had the previous year.

QS: So, is that a concern that you have now?

MERCHANT: Well, obviously, once you’ve won a major award like that you very much want to… you don’t want to let it slip.  You don’t want to let the crown slip.  So I shall have to work very hard this year to be even funnier.  But I have no real intention of doing anything this year in which I perform so my moment’s gone, I think, already.

QS: Or theoretically you could maintain the standard, having nothing to compare it against…

MERCHANT: Exactly. Exactly, yeah.

QS: It’s unfortunate that, even in your moment of triumph, Ricky could snatch it away and make it about him.

MERCHANT: Well, that was a little bit of a joke.  I would hate for you to think there was any real animosity between us.

QS:  No, clearly it was set up… but still, even then…

MERCHANT: They just gave it to me so they could get him on the show, I think.

QS: Isn’t that the only reason they give it to anyone related to him?

MERCHANT: I think so.  They turned up, so I got it.

QS: I was shocked recently to see Ricky nervous on camera – the first I’d ever seen him nervous on anything…

MERCHANT: Was he nervous on that?

QS: No, I was watching the Night of Too Many Stars special they did here in the U.S. …

MERCHANT: Oh okay, yeah.

QS: … where he did a portion of the Politics show. The only time I’ve seen him nervous was in front of an American audience doing stand-up…

MERCHANT: Really?  No, I didn’t see that, but I don’t know. I guess he’s stepping into unfamiliar territory there.

QS: I tried to convince him a year and a half ago that he should really get his DVDs out in the States and do the stand-up, since people were bootlegging it over here anyway.

MERCHANT: Yeah, yeah, yeah…

QS: Was the response to the second series of Extras a surprise to you?

MERCHANT: Do you mean for me personally as an actor?

QS: Both as an actor and obviously as a writer of the show.  I watched the episodes as they aired a few months back, and it seems like there was a different tone to how people greeted it compared to series one. It seems like people were unsure about how they should respond to the first series, because they were judging it directly against The Office as a comedy piece.

MERCHANT: Yeah, sure.

QS: And it seemed that with the second series, Extras was able to stand on its own.

MERCHANT: I think so, yeah. And consequently I think some people enjoyed it and others said it wasn’t for them.  Personally I was very pleased with it. I thought we did a lot of funny stuff in that second series.  I had, personally, a great response from people as well.  It was a very conscious decision for us to try not to emulate The Office inasmuch as we didn’t want to chase the same kind of pathos and the same emotional investment.  We wanted to just have a slightly fluffier, slightly sillier show. And I think for that we sort of succeeded, and I think some people still criticize us for not being as emotionally rich, but that wasn’t really our intention.  Our intention was just to have some fun scenes and… yeah, so I was very pleased.

QS: Is there any point where you were… I wouldn’t say concerned, but disappointed in the reaction that Extras was getting, particularly in regards to the tone of the show?

merchant-04.jpgMERCHANT: I wouldn’t say disappointed. I think generally the people that enjoyed it understood exactly what we were trying to do, really, which was just to write some funny comedy.  But I think we made it difficult with The Office, in that we had given people maybe a little bit more than they were expecting from a sitcom. That we were giving them a world which they could entirely invest in and a kind of emotional journey. Which is something we very consciously decided not to do with Extras. We just felt we would be judged against ourselves, and why not just give ourselves a bit of time off and just have fun.  And bizarrely, we were still judged against ourselves by some people for failing to give them what we’d given them in The Office. And it was like, “Well, we’re not trying to give it to you again.” And I always find that slightly frustrating because you sort of feel like, you know, “Judge the show on its own terms.”  Did it make you laugh?  If not, fair enough.  But please don’t judge it compared with either what we’ve done in the past or what someone else has done, because it seems to defeat the object, really.  But that’s just the nature of the beast.  My feeling is just to keep making shows and then hopefully you can have a bit of a body of work which in years to come kind of stands on its own two feet, and is not judged chronologically – if you know what I mean.  People can just dip in and out of your oeuvre as they see fit.  That may seem rather grand, that, but the people I always admired were people with varied careers, with very eclectic stuff in their canon.

QS: It also seemed in the second series that you really came into your own as an actor, as well…

MERCHANT: Yeah, certainly we beefed up my role, and I really enjoyed that, and I had a lot of good feedback from that.  That’s something I enjoyed the most, was just getting to play a two dimensional character who looks an awful lot like me and speaks like me.  It’s not a great performance in the great works of comedy, but I was quite pleased with myself because I’m quite nervous as a performer.  I don’t remember lines very well.  I’m often sat down so that I can have the lines printed up around me or hidden under notebooks and stuff.  So I was quite pleased that I got away with it.

QS: But compared to how often Ricky will corpse on camera, you look profoundly professional…

MERCHANT: Yeah, the two of us together, sometimes we can barely get anything done.  A couple of instances he’d just barely get in the door before I’d be gone.  That’s a great… what a great way to spend the day. I know that we’re burning money fast and people are looking at their watches, but to us it’s so much fun. That’s kinda the reason we do it, I think, is because we just enjoy that.  One of the reasons I gave myself more of a role is just I really love acting opposite Ricky. I just think we’ve got a natural sort of… I hope a natural sense of each other’s timing and what each other’s gonna do. So that was great fun for me.

QS: Personally, I think you’re being incredibly self-critical to describe the part as such.  I think it was an amazing comic performance that you turned in during this past series…

MERCHANT: Thank you.  I appreciate that.

QS:  And I don’t think that, in particular, you could have pulled off the Robert De Niro scene if you didn’t have the chops to do so…

MERCHANT: Yeah. I think what it is is that I’ve got no… I sort of feel instinctively like I’m quite funny, but I’ve got no real objective opinion of it.  Do you know what I mean?  As I’m doing it I’ve got no sense of whether I’m doing it right or wrong or funny.  I’m very much dependant on Ricky to reassure me and tell me that it’s working.  Not because I’m insecure, I just have got no…

QS: No barometer for that?

MERCHANT: Yeah.  I cannot tell.  And even when we’re in the editing room, I look at my performance and I’m just not really sure what I’m doing.

QS: Is there any point or any scene where you did feel that, “Yes, this is funny…”?

MERCHANT: There were times where I’ll deliver a line in certain way, or at least I’ll feel, “Oh I know what I was trying to do there, and that seems closest to it.” But I’m very dependant on Ricky and the others to guide me on that.  I just… I don’t know what it is.  And that’s the thing that’s always frustrated me with Ricky; he’s got an amazing sense of always being able to watch himself performing, even as he’s doing it.  He’s able to direct himself in that way, and he’ll say, “Oh, that was a bit broad, let me go again.  I want to try something else.”  And I’m sort of getting there I think, but I do feel like I’m quite dependant on him to steer me along the right path.

QS:  I’ve always been curious, since you describe it so much as a footnote, but what was your stand-up career like?

MERCHANT: Well, I went through various phases. The one I was most comfortable with was this kind of conceit that I was a stand-up comedian who, in my own mind, was very successful and big and famous in my home town.  But that I was angry and frustrated with the rest of the world because they didn’t know who I was and they hadn’t yet seen my genius.  And so it sort of sprung from the idea of, “Could I do a routine in which I never actually did my act?” I was constantly promising an act but never arrived. It may sound more high concept than it probably was. So the idea was I’d come on and I would go, “I’ve got a great act for you. Simply brilliant.  I’m a little frustrated with the level of applause at the beginning there.  It was just not what I’m used to, so I wonder if we can just maybe do that again.  Just really light me up.” And then I come on again and I go, “Yes, okay.  But you – you sort of look like you’re being a bit negative.”  And so the whole conceit was, you know, I just got more and more angry with the audience that they weren’t a good enough audience, and I wasn’t doing it for their pleasure. It became funny – hopefully it became funnier… the longer I fail to get to my act, the funnier it became and eventually I run out of time and I never actually got to my act.

QS: Isn’t that essentially, in some ways, Darren Lamb?

MERCHANT: To a degree, yeah. To a degree.  Although Darren’s actually more pleasant than my character on stage was. I was quite mean spirited.  I was quite vindictive and spiteful.  I like him because he’s quite harmless.  He’s quite a nice bloke. He really seems to be quite optimistic about things. There’s something enormous fun to play a character who’s perennially optimistic about the world, even as he’s failing and things are falling down around him.

QS: It seems like you and Ricky have a tendency to write fish-out-of-water characters…

MERCHANT: Certainly people who are out of their depths.

QS:  Yeah, people who profoundly do not belong in the career path they’ve chosen.

MERCHANT: Yeah, absolutely.  And I think that’s party because we… it seems like that’s so truthful about so many people.  You endlessly meet people who quite clearly shouldn’t be in the lives that they’re leading.  I’ve got a friend who’s a lawyer who constantly bemoans the fact that he’s a lawyer, and is constantly trying to get out from the business, as it were, and it’s like it keeps sucking him back in as though it were something from Carlito’s Way.  He’s just a man who… it’s really bizarre, and you think, well, you’ve got to work really quite hard to become a successful lawyer.  So he has this sort of double life where secretly he’s going clubbing and stuff and has to disguise and hide this from his other lawyer colleagues who think he’s very straight-laced.  It would be a wonderful character because he’s leading this weird double life.  That’s the nature of David Brent. He should never have really managed to get to that position in the office.  And once he’s there, he’s struggling to remain in that position because it’s just not who he is.

QS: In a lot of the characters it almost seems like they should have stayed in the level just below where they find themselves… sort of like a Peter Principle of comedy.

MERCHANT: Exactly. You’re exactly right. They just overreached a little bit.  Although in the case of Darren Lamb I think it’s that he decides one day he’d quite like to be an agent. It was sort of an arbitrary decision. And he’s had some cards printed. And as far as he’s concerned, that’s it. He’s off and running.  There’s a guy I went to school with and after our first series of The Office I bumped into him in the street back in my home town and he came up and he said, “I’m thinking of becoming a TV producer, Steve,” and I said, “Oh yeah,” and he went, “Yeah, yeah yeah. Do you need a producer for your show?”  I said, “Well no, I’ve got one already.”  He went, “Okay.” And this was a completely arbitrary decision. He’d been working as a caretaker the week before, and now he decided, “Well, maybe I’ll do TV producing.”

QS: But, really, I can think of no better prior career to move into producing from…

MERCHANT: Exactly, exactly!    Again, it’s that sort of… I don’t know, the perennial optimist who just thinks, “Yeah, I’ll give that a go.  Why not?”

QS: The perennial optimist is another recurring theme within the shows you’ve done.

MERCHANT: Yes. Yes.  Well, in…

QS: Particularly in the face of overwhelming evidence that they shouldn’t be optimists in a given situation.

MERCHANT: Yeah, quite. Yeah.  I think in the case of Extras it was much more… basically, we were doing variations on Laurel & Hardy.  An idiot leading slightly less of an idiot.  Or the other way around.  There’s something about Laurel & Hardy that constantly comes back to us when we’re working and writing.  Because they’re such a perfect comic creation that the world they inhabit, their relationship, what they aspire to – I mean, it’s just perfect. They’re two men – one of whom aspires to sort of be dignified and socially accepted, and he’s constantly thinking, “Okay, today’s gonna be my day.”  And somehow can’t seem to jettison this dead wood that he carries with him, who constantly drags him back down again. But it’s so warm and they’re so clearly utterly dependant on each other. It’s just a wonderful comic device, really.

QS: Why do you feel, in the face of all this evidence, that Andy would stay with Darren?

MERCHANT: Again, I think it’s because there’s a sort of… I think he’d feel guilty if he left. There’s a strange allegiance he has to him.  He’s somehow… he’s almost protecting him by keeping him close because if he cut him loose, he’s almost scared of what would happen to Darren. It’s like he’d flow off into the universe and something terrible would happen. I quite like that, that sense that he’s slightly protective of… that he never really kind of explodes until maybe the final episode.

QS: And then it pretty much resets itself.

MERCHANT: Yeah, and Darren pulls it out of the bag at the last minute, through his charmlessness…

QS: Was that always the intention for that arc of the second series, that there would be this redemption of Darren’s character?

MERCHANT: Well, you can say it’s a very loose arc.  But yeah, there’s just something nice about the way that… again, it was… my character’s not a villain. He’s just a bit hopeless, and wouldn’t it be sweet if he was able to sort of magically solve everything without having changed his ways.  Just through sheer good fortune and a novelty pen, he’s able to rescue another man’s career.

QS: How different is the writing process, if at all, between The Office and Extras?

MERCHANT: I think we possibly approached it slightly more from the idea of “what are some funny ideas about,” “what are funny things we’ve experienced,” and “what would be a funny idea.”  Whereas in The Office it tended to be a little bit more from the character first.  It would be, “Okay, what would it be like if David Brent did a job interview?”  Whereas sometimes with Extras we will approach, “you’ll never believe what happened to me”… there’s a degree of that in The Office, but yeah, sometimes we think of funny ideas and then we attach them to the show a little bit more, which is a slightly different way of working.  But essentially it’s the same, which is us sitting in a room, kinda throwing ideas around and brainstorming and improvising.  So it remains roughly the same.

QS: And in the ersatz mirror universe version of The Office that we saw in the second series of Extras, When the Whistle Blows, how close was that to any notes you might have actually gotten from the BBC for The Office?

MERCHANT: That was basically what would’ve happened if we’d made all the wrong decisions and not stuck to our guns. And we were very lucky.  I mean, Ricky was in his 40s or late 30s and he just thought, “Well, I’m not gonna compromise this idea I’ve got.” It was very much like the Seinfeld thing where he says, “I’m not going to compromise my artistic integrity.”  It really was that with the BBC.  It was, “Here’s our vision. I’m not desperate just to be on the TV – let’s do it my way or not.”  And they went, “Okay,” and we were slightly shocked.  But yeah, whereas obviously with Extras and When the Whistle Blows, it was very much, “What’s the worse thing that can happen all the way down the road for him?”  And also because he’s willing to accept it.  He could have walked away, but that’s very difficult.  It’s difficult to walk away when you’re given an opportunity.  So you compromise and it becomes agonizing.  So it’s not really born from experience, more from the, you know, there but for the grace of God go us, really.

QS: The knowledge of the way it could have gone.

MERCHANT: As you say, a kind of terrible parallel universe version.

QS: Is there any area that’s a taboo subject for comedy, for you? Anything that’s untouchable?

MERCHANT: Any subject is theoretically valid territory to explore in a comedy. It’s very much how you approach it.  And I think if you approach it… let’s say you approach the area of disability, but your intention is to laugh at disability rather than to laugh at attitudes and experiences surrounding disability – that, I think, is not something I’d feel comfortable with. Ricky and I are very careful to talk long and hard about whether we feel we’re exploiting a particular area for laughs, or whether we’re dealing with a subject in the appropriate way.  And people would say, “Oh, your comedy’s not politically correct.  It’s politically incorrect.” And we never think that’s the case.  We’re always very careful to approach these subjects from the right angle, if you know what I mean.  So I think generally, hopefully, there’s always an attitude in our work where you can sort of see what, as it were, the right view should be – or as far as we’re concerned – about a particular subject.  You see him rolling his eyes at the camera to let you know that David Brent made a fool of himself.

QS: It always struck me that you’re both doing this modern day comedy of manners…

MERCHANT: Well, exactly.  I think it’s not… it’s not an intention to shock – it’s that so many areas have been used in comedy and overused and diluted. They’re just not as comic anymore. And, to us, the things that make us laugh are social faux pas… are the fear of walking into a room and embarrassing yourself in front of a room of your peers. I mean, those are concerns which we both find funny and terrifying.  Years ago it was always, “Don’t embarrass yourself in front of the vicar, or in front of your boss.” And I think those still remain, but maybe the parameters have shifted slightly, so people are less worried about embarrassing themselves in front of the vicar. But maybe they are anxious about saying the wrong thing in front of a person of color.  So, to me, it’s the same old comic tricks, but just with a slightly different emphasis.  And those are very genuine anxieties. There’s an episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm – I think it’s the first pilot, actually – where he walks past the black guy and he’s very… he sort of nods and says hi and everything.  And he says to his friend, “I feel this incredible burden to make it clear I’m not racist around black people.  I have to go out of my way to be friendly. To make it clear to them that I’m on their side.” And I think that’s a wonderfully truthful and honest thing about anxieties that so many white liberal people feel.

QS: That you’re perpetually walking in a cultural minefield…

MERCHANT: Yes, because you… what we’re not… people aren’t racists, necessarily, or they’ve no issue about disability, but they don’t necessarily know what the rules are… they don’t know what can they talk about, what can they joke about. Our producer is disabled on The Office.  So over time, because you’re very comfortable around his disability, you just joke about it and you make remarks about it just like people would about my height or about Ricky’s weight, or whatever.  But obviously to an outsider that may seem like, “Oh my goodness, they’re talking about areas which I wouldn’t be comfortable going into.”  So it’s very much about context and about who you know and how you know them and what that sort of shared cultural understanding is.  And those are the areas that we’re just fascinated by in comedy.  Where there are certain expected ways of behaving, and if you don’t quite understand those rules, or you break them by mistake, hopefully there’s some humor to be had.

QS: And obviously characters like David Brent and Andy Melman are really about overcompensation for their social mores…

MERCHANT: Exactly. Exactly.  I mean, there’s the instance where he sees the girl with cerebral palsy and he goes out of his way to pretend to be religious so as not to offend her religious sensibilities, because it’s something which is very important to her. There’s nothing wrong in a sense with pretending to be religious in order to not offend someone, but you’re suddenly being a hypocrite.  You’re lying to your own beliefs, and in doing that, you potentially come unstuck.  So, to us, that was a fairly… we’ve got a fairly sophisticated point.  It wasn’t about laughing at cerebral palsy, it was about laughing at the anxiety someone feels and the way they start to change their ways of behaving, even to the point of attending a prayer meeting and lying in an effort not to offend… and also to try and get off with a woman.  But I think that’s quite a sophisticated area to be exploring in comedy.  I’m quite proud of it.

QS: I think one of the great things about both The Office and Extras is it sort of expanded the arena, along with shows like Curb Your Enthusiasm, of what comedy could accomplish in a social context.

MERCHANT: Yeah.

QS: As far as addressing, like you said, those sort of unspoken mores and thoughts and beliefs and the way people comport themselves in modern society.

MERCHANT: Exactly, exactly. And I think a lot of those shows where everyone is incredibly right on and politically sensitive, it’s not being very truthful about the way people are.  Andy Melman is not a bad man, but he doesn’t always know the right way to behave in certain circumstances. Or sometimes he does, and his friend puts him in it, or sometimes he says the wrong things behind closed doors that he would never say to someone to their face.  As we all sometimes do. And then of course he gets caught out.  So, to me, that’s just – that’s the way everyone acts. I just think that’s the way people behave.  You’re a liar if you never tell a naughty joke or say something a little inappropriate or gossip about someone. I just don’t believe people are like that.  Everyone’s something of a hypocrite, really.

QS: I thought it was a bit surprising and a bit disappointing, particularly in the response to the end of the Christmas specials for The Office, how disappointed a portion of the audience was in what they perceived as a happy ending for those characters…

MERCHANT: Right.

QS: My understanding was that, within the world that was created, as in real life, you can have good moments along with the painfully awkward or bad moments that lead up to it…

MERCHANT: Yes.

QS: It’s interesting how they perceived a lack of realism in what was… I mean, it is real. That sometimes things can happen the “right way”…

MERCHANT: Well, I think there’s a couple things that work, because it wasn’t like we gave them a fairy tale ending.  All that David Brent did was stand up, really, to a friend of his that he’d always idolized. I’d like to think that it was the… we’d loaded the significance of that friendship so that when he told his mate to fuck off, that had a huge impact. That suggested he’d grown up a little.  But that’s really not a big dramatic moment if you really stop to think about it, in most dramas or TV shows.  I think what we were lucky on with The Office was that everything was calibrated down a little. So, in a sense, him just saying that was the same as him striding in and punching him in the face. It had that much impact within that world. But, also, I think that we were never cynical.  Some of the things we enjoyed most about The Office were the moments that Tim and Dawn shared, or the moments where Tim’s kind of joking with Gareth and not at him. You know, those moments of affection.  We were never condescending to those characters.  We liked them and so why weren’t we gonna give them a little bit of Christmas cheer?  We liked those people, and in the end it’s a TV show, and I don’t think it betrayed anything.  So just give them those little rays of hope.

QS: Was the response surprising to you at all that people would perceive it as, “Oh, they went the Hollywood ending on it…”?

MERCHANT: Well, generally, I haven’t experienced it.  I think some people felt that, but I think generally more people have told me how much they loved it and cried.  When people tell me that they cried when Dawn came back in, that’s probably my single proudest moment from anything’s we’ve done, because I just think to have been able to manipulate an audience – and that’s what it is, in the end – to be able to manipulate them to the extent that they have a physical reaction I just think is… I’m just so deeply proud of that. I mean, laughter is one thing, but to move someone, I just think… and that’s part of the reason I think Ricky and I are keen to move into drama, because it’s so rewarding as a writer and director to get that feeling of manipulating an audience.  Manipulating sounds like you’re being kind of conniving, but…

QS: I know you described it as being a bit broader, and I know you just described Darren as being sort of a two dimensional character, but I think you did achieve moments like that in Extras, as well.

MERCHANT: Well, I think possibly by default, but it certainly wasn’t something that we were chasing, particularly.  We did want that occasional moment off affection, particularly between Andy and Maggie.  We wanted that sense that they were two people sort of adrift in the world and they only really had each other.

QS: Just the scene of Maggie’s breakdown in the apartment at the end of the first series…

MERCHANT: Yeah, yeah.

QS: I would say that it simply was not just a broad comedy that you two were doing…

MERCHANT: Well, thank you.  I think possibly we shied away from that a little in the second series kinda deliberately.  But yeah, I think there were moments of that, yeah.

QS: How different did you find it working in the American arena, writing the script for the US Office that aired a few months back?

MERCHANT: Well, we wrote the script quite a while ago, which we then handed to those guys and they pretty much did their work on it, because they had to fit it into the narrative arc.  So, actually, what you ended up seeing was far more their work really than ours.  But I love the whole process of American TV.  I love the way that you have… that someone comes up with an idea and then you sort of put it into this machine, and out the other end comes, hopefully, a work of art.  Some kind of work of art machine, which is incredible. And so it was exciting for us, I think, just to sort of put it in one end and see how it came out the other end with it.  And so, yeah, we were very pleased with the outcome.  We have such… well, I’m particularly a huge fan of the American version.  I just think they’re really doing something interesting and particularly brave, I think, on American network TV.

QS: Is there anything you think you’ve left unaccomplished, narratively, with the original version of The Office?

MERCHANT: No.  I’m very pleased with it.  I wouldn’t want to revisit it, and I feel that it’s there and it’s packaged up in a neat little bow.  But what I love with the American version is it’s like I’ve won a competition where I was able to ask talented people to… I’d given the constituent elements of a TV show, and they send it back to me, fully made, fully scripted, with comic actors, in an envelope, once a week, and it’s sort of brilliant in that respect.  So what I love about the American one is the way that they move our story on and they expand it into different areas, and I love the fact that Michael Scott’s got a bigger kind of emotional private life and things, which was not an area we really explored sufficiently. And I love seeing how the romantic strands work themselves out. I love seeing the whole thing have a longer life, if you like.  A longer life.

QS: Is your view that the Slough Office exists in the same universe as the Scranton Office?

MERCHANT: Well, I sort of feel like ours is preserved in amber now, like a fossil. It’s there, solidified, that final moment of them all having their photo taken is sort of trapped now in time. But yeah, if I had to, then it would be nice to think that they both existed in the same world.  And maybe the world of Extras, as well. Maybe it’s some strange weird universe.  Parallel universe.

QS: Do you have a feeling that you’ve sort of created a continuity, in some respects?

MERCHANT: Between the American and English version?

QS: I would just say within the work that you’ve done, thematically, do you feel that there are through lines you can look at, in the worlds that you’ve created so far, in those two series?

MERCHANT: Yeah, and I think certainly the plans we’ve got retain the same themes of frustrated ambition and lives of quiet desperation, and people aspiring to things and never achieving them.  Those, I think, are the thematic elements that interest us and which I suspect will continue to be in our work.  I just think there are some things that are perpetually interesting and perpetually heartbreaking.  I’m not particularly interested in things like Lord of the Rings because I don’t see why I need to enter another world with goblins and whatever else in order to have an adventure. I just think there’s enough adventure in this apartment block that I live.

QS:  What appeals to you at this point about pursuing more straightforward drama?

MERCHANT: I think it’s the emotional payoff for the audience. I think it’s the way that you can press more buttons than you can with comedy.  We did it to a degree in The Office, but I just think there’s a weight off your mind. You don’t have to feel like you’re chasing a laugh when you don’t want to. Still the slight frustration with a sitcom is you sort of are obliged to give the audience a certain comic kick every now and then, when sometimes it’s nice to just not do that.  And that’s why I think shows like The Sopranos – obviously everyone cites The Sopranos – but a number of shows like that which manage to be hysterically funny but also… I don’t know, just so much more rich and reward the viewer in ways I think it’s much harder to do in comedy.

merchant-06.jpgQS:  And is developing a project like that within the television arena still your intended mode of expression, or are features a path you’re interested in?

MERCHANT:  Well, I love TV. I think at the moment, particularly, TV has really managed to make use of what is great about television. The serial episodic element.  The returning audience, being able to have a long stretch of episodes that builds up a world and then you can pay things off in a much more grand way.  Much more novelistic, I think, in some respects.  I think a TV show like The Wire is remarkable in the way that it doesn’t give you the rewards and the beats that you expect from TV. That it demands that you’re not really going to feel satisfied until the 22nd episode or the 12th episode or whatever it might be. And I think there’s nowhere else you can do that.  You can’t do that in films even, really, because you’re always slightly prohibited by the length of the film. Whereas with TV you can… I mean, Tony Soprano, as far as I’m concerned, he’s completely real and lives and exists and breathes and has a real life which I’m allowed to kind of eavesdrop on occasionally.

QS: And so how solidified are your plans for whatever these future dramatic exploits might be?

MERCHANT: Not particularly solidified yet.  More the sort of solid ambitions, but no actual concrete ideas, really.  We’re talking a good talk, but I’m not sure we are necessarily walking the walk.

QS: And to these rumors of another series of Extras?   How are things looking on that front?

MERCHANT: Probably not gonna happen at the moment. I don’t know where those rumors came from.

QS: Probably just a hope and belief that surely such a good series will be followed up with another…

MERCHANT: Well, possibly. I think we do get bored very easily and… that’s a terrible thing to say. There’s always that slight itchiness to move onto something else. Although, yeah, it’s a shame that I don’t get to… because I did enjoy playing that character, so that’s the one thing I’ll miss is putting on those bad sweaters.

QS: In the wake of that, have you seen an increase in acting offers? Obviously you have the cameo on 24 coming up…

MERCHANT: This is really not a cameo, this is an extra.  This is me walking on and… I’m not even walking on.  I’m sat behind a desk and someone hands me a computer disk and I type something. Really, people shouldn’t get excited by that.  That’s a bit part.

QS: How did that come about?

MERCHANT: That’s just because I happen to know Joel Surnow, the producer who created that show, because I met him at the Golden Globes, and we sort of stayed in touch.  So we went down to visit the set, and he just said, “Look, put this outfit on, and sit behind this desk.” And I was such a fan of the show I couldn’t believe my luck.

QS: Have you seen an increase in offers after Extras, where people are coming to you wanting to hire you as an actor?

MERCHANT: Not particularly, and that’s a constant frustration. I’m expecting the phones to be ablaze, but… I guess it’s Christmas time, maybe.

QS:  Now that they read this they’re going to feel completely bad about the fact that they haven’t just beaten down the door.

MERCHANT: Yes.

QS: “I knew he was waiting, we should have called.”

merchant-03.jpgMERCHANT: I’m just sat here by the phone, so it’s just waiting for it to… I should say that what they see me do in Extras is pretty much the limits of my ability. I can do that with slightly different degrees of West Country accent.

QS: I would bet good money that you’re underestimating yourself.

MERCHANT: Well, possibly.

QS: I would even bet American money that you’re underestimating yourself.

MERCHANT: Well, yeah, I’m more than happy for someone to take you up on that.

QS: I’ll just bet Ricky on it.

MERCHANT: Yeah, great.

QS: What are the future plans for the podcast?

MERCHANT: That will probably be put on hold for a little while.  We’ve got one more coming out at Christmas, and then hopefully it will… we’ll maybe do occasional ones next year, but I think we’ve exhausted ourselves… or rather we’ve exhausted Karl this year.

QS: So what happens? Do you just put him back in storage after the run ends?

merchant-05.jpgMERCHANT: Well, in a sense, we just have to let him go back out there and he has to go and play with some insects and dig up some worms and whatever it is he does with his time. And hopefully he’ll recharge his batteries and we can just present him to the world again.

QS: Is it difficult to call him back in and get him back into performing shape?

MERCHANT: Well he’s not really a performer… I mean, it’s not really a performance. It’s just him opening his mouth. That’s the remarkable thing about him. He’s a never-ending well of comic gems.

QS: Have you noticed a change in him over the past couple of years at all?

MERCHANT: Only a frustration at the level of attention. He doesn’t relish it. He doesn’t like it.  He finds it unnatural. That’s why Ricky’s constantly trying to persuade people to make him more famous, just to annoy him.

QS: He’s become, what, this figure of graffiti across the U.S.?

MERCHANT: I know… It’s amazing, isn’t it? Just amazing.  That really is the power of the internet. It’s making him into a kind of currency that people share.  I get asked more about Karl when I’m in the States than anything else. It’s extraordinary.

QS: He’s become the new Kilroy.

MERCHANT: Exactly.  Exactly, yeah. Whatever happened to Kilroy?  Kilroy was here, apparently.

QS:  It was stunning to see… Although anyone who makes a comment about eating a knob at night…

MERCHANT: Yes.

QS: …really kinda deserves the infamy that they achieve.

MERCHANT: Quite, absolutely, yeah.  But I think that will certainly be something that Ricky and I are most proud of when we look back on our lives.

QS: But what happens to him when your influence is gone?  Does he just sort of go back into limbo…

MERCHANT: This is what we’re all waiting to find out. Yeah, who knows?

QS: Is there a level with Karl?

MERCHANT: Is there a level with him?

QS: Yeah, as far as, what’s Karl’s natural level when you don’t observe him?  Kind of like Schrödinger’s Karl.

MERCHANT: Right.  If no one’s looking at him, what’s going on?  Probably not a great deal, actually.  It’s an interesting question.  I think he seems very happy in his own world. In my mind he’s… whenever we’re not there, he’s like… is it Linus? Is that the character in Peanuts who just sat in the sandpit playing with sand?  With his little towel?

QS: Yes, that’s Linus.

MERCHANT: In my mind Karl is just perpetually sat in a sand pit, just happily making sandcastles.  Occasionally being distracted by a wasp or a fly. That’s my default vision of Karl.

QS: So, really, there’s no kinetic motion.

MERCHANT: No.  It’s just happy in his own mind, in his own universe, like a young child would be.

QS: Just a man perpetually affected by outside forces.

MERCHANT: Yeah, just waiting for things to stimulate him.  Yeah.  Passing children throwing things at him.  A tennis ball bonks off his head and he considers that for a moment. And then he looks up at the sun and he realizes he can’t really look at the sun because it’ll burn his eyes so he looks away and that gives him a moment of thought which lasts an hour.

QS: It’s almost like watching a frozen picture of evolution.

MERCHANT: Yes.  Exactly. It’s frozen at the point… someone across the way has just invented fire, and Carl can just see something flickering in the distance and he’s wondering what it is, but not really gonna bother to wander over there and look.

QS: No.  Because a part of him doesn’t want to know.

MERCHANT: Exactly.

QS: Why bother with the natural order of things?

MERCHANT: Yeah, why bother. You’re messing with stuff. We don’t need fire.  We’ve got by fine without it.  It looks dangerous.

QS: Food is fine raw.

MERCHANT: Exactly.  We got by fine like that.  We don’t need fire to digest.

QS: It’s amazing to discover an archetype like that still in existence.

MERCHANT: And that’s why I think he captured people’s imaginations, because I think once they listen to one conversation with him, everyone knows how Karl’s going to react. They don’t know what he’s going say. They can never imagine the angle from which he’s going to approach something. But they sort of understand the way his mind is going to work. They know it’s not gonna be the obvious approach. And so he’s perfect in that respect.

QS: What’s the moment that perfectly encapsulates Karl for you?

MERCHANT: This is a quote I read that apparently he said on one of his shows. I don’t remember him saying it, but it’s on one of the websites and I assume it was real, which was, “What are those things in the film Gremlins called?”  And that just seems to capture it, really.  He’s got some of the facts, but he’s not really processed them.  There’s a sense of inquiry, there’s a sense of intrigue. He’s intrigued by these Gremlin things he’s heard about.

QS: It’s almost like a mental version of the film Groundhog Day.

MERCHANT: Yeah, exactly.

QS: It’s like there’s a reset button every day, and it’s the same Karl as yesterday that comes in.

MERCHANT: Exactly, exactly. (laughing) Nothing we taught him or spoke to him has gone in and stayed there.

QS: It makes you wonder where the arresting point was.  At what point did he stop and there’s a fully formed Karl?

MERCHANT: I think it was probably around the age of 15 or 16.  And then he just stopped.

QS: I really wonder what would happen if you two had never found him.

MERCHANT: Well, yeah.  Here we are. Exactly. I’m sure someone could write quite an interesting theory piece on that.

QS: I’m surprised that Ricky hasn’t.

MERCHANT: Yeah, absolutely.

##

January 4, 2007

Interview: Jonathan Katz

Filed under: Interviews — UncaScroogeMcD @ 1:53 am

-by Ken Plume

katz-01.jpgA few weeks back, I had the pleasure of sitting down for an in-depth interview with Jonathan Katz. I can only assume he was sitting as well, a necessary bit of speculation considering he was over a thousand miles away and our only connection was a phone line and the fact that he had agreed to do the aforementioned interview.

Besides his 20 year stand-up career, Katz was the star of Comedy Central’s award-winning Dr. Katz: Professional Therapist (the first two seasons of which are currently available on DVD), and is a regular contributor to The Next Big Thing radio show on NPR. He recently performed Dr. Katz: Live in New York along with Jon Benjamin, and has just released his first CD, Caffeinated.

You can visit Jonathan on the Web at www.jonathankatz.com, listen to his contribution to our “Holiday Havoc” celebration here, and read our conversation beginning now…

katz-02.jpg

KATZ: Hello?

KP: Hey, Jonathan, this is Ken.

KATZ: Hey Ken. Is this an okay connection on your end?

KP: It sounds fine on mine.

KATZ: It’s perfect on mine. So to give myself a little pep talk, first of all, are you recording? Because I encourage you to do that.

KP: Yes, just started recording.

KATZ: I was giving myself a little pep talk, and I was thinking about two things. One is a comedian I used to work with named Ron Darion. And he used to do this bit about New Yorkers, how they’re missing that little part of the brain that tells you you shouldn’t do something. I was thinking about this in the context of these two radio interviews I did on Monday. And I just could not censor myself.

KP: Were these in promotion for the live performance of Dr. Katz?

KATZ: It was part in promotion of that and partly in promotion my enormous big fat Greek ego. But mostly I’m promoting this CD that’s coming out this month.

katz-03.gifKP: Caffeinated

KATZ: Yeah. That’s the thing I’m mostly excited about. Because I kind of like to document my work, and this really represents 25 years of my life. I just got so bored saying that one phrase. So the one thing that made me think about is that Ron Darion thing. And then the other thing is that I was trying to find a reason to justify is taking that very expensive trip into space which is being offered commercially now. Do you know about this?

KP: This is the Virgin Galactic flight? Or is this another one?

KATZ: I guess somebody’s offering, “If you put up enough money, we’ll get you into space…”

KP: I know the Russians have been doing it, but Branson has been taking bookings for that Virgin Galactic…

KATZ: I think I can justify it two ways; one is that it’s a chance to meet my public…

KP: What’s the implication, that your public has been slowly migrating towards space over the past few years?

KATZ: No, I thought I was gonna meet them on the bus yesterday, because I took the Greyhound bus from New York to Newton where I live, and I hadn’t been on a bus in years and I thought that would be a chance to meet people I like and who are like me.

KP: How do you define that? What are the characteristics?

KATZ: Well, people I like is an enormous range. I like women more than men. I like people who get my jokes. People who make me laugh, I really like them. They are few and far between.

KP: Now I’m getting performance anxiety.

KATZ: No, no. Ken, you’re pre-sold.

KP: (laughing)

KATZ: I like Loren Bouchard a lot. Either a young woman or even an aging woman.

KP: It’d be quite a surprise to his wife to find out he was either of those…

KATZ: Yeah. But he gets my jokes and he also is very good at providing a context for them. And I also like people who know about stuff that I don’t know anything about. And those people are all over the place. I know so little about anything. Except myself, my family, comedy, psychology, psychiatry. I know a little about animation. I know a lot about audio, and I love audio.

KP: So you really can’t say that you know very little about most things. There obviously is a large swath of stuff you do know quite a bit about. You certainly know about comedy.

KATZ: Yeah, but I was on a plane recently and I met some guy from Armenia. I don’t know anything about Armenia. Coming back I met a guy who was a… what do they call somebody who looks for pieces of previous civilizations?

KP: Archaeologist?

KATZ: Yeah. But he had a such a unique take on archaeology. Because that’s my definition of an archeologist – you go look in the sand for things. Or you look under a building to find traces of what was going on before there. There’s so many more aspects of archeology. But I do know a lot about comedy.

KP: When you talk about that 25 year span, what are you trying to condense into an 80 minute CD?

KATZ: First of all, it’s 50 minutes long. Because the first 20 years just flew by. The CD’s 50 minutes long, five-oh, and I’m trying to give people a sense of what I did as a stand up comic during those years. So it’s material that started in the real world and then it just sort of morphed into comedy.

KP: Was your path into comedy a surprise to you?

KATZ: I guess so. People have been laughing at things I’ve said for years, but I never thought I would get paid for it. Nor was that an ambition of mine. I wanted to be a musician. I wanted to make my living in music, and I did for a while. You know, I’ve written more than 40 songs in my life, and they all fall under the heading of mediocre.

KP: By your definition?

KATZ: Yes. And even by the definition of my iPod. I created a category called Mediocre.

KP: Is it only populated by your songs or have you included others in it?

KATZ: No, just me. It’s just a playful look at my songs. Not that they don’t have good qualities. I think I’m challenged as a lyricist. I write pretty good songs, but when I write the lyrics, I write myself into a hole.

KP: So you’re saying that you need a Sondheim? Or a Taupin?

KATZ: Well, I’ll give you an example. This is my favorite example. This is an example of a bad lyric I wrote. This is me running into a hole with just a bad lyric. It was a samba. And I wrote it in the 60s and it goes, “Another night with you would be too much to ask; a final fight with you would me flabbergast.”

KP: It’s certainly unique.

KATZ: Just to use the word flabbergast…

KP: It reminds me of something you might hear from Shel Silverstein.

katz-04.gifKATZ: Or Howdy Doody.

KP: Or Howdy Doody. But really, isn’t that a fine line?

KATZ: Yeah, it is. This is an example of me writing myself into a hole, because I think this is not a bad song, I just got stuck. The lyric is, “It’s a strange situation that I find myself in, perhaps you’ve been there too; I’m caught between a hard place.” And now that I’ve written that line I am fucked. I have nowhere to go.

KP: Well, I’m sure there’s a rhyming scheme. You could find something.

KATZ: Oh yeah, but there’s no happy ending to that lyric.

KP: Unless you do a complete 180…

KATZ: I could bend that line that leads into it.

KP: I believe that’s when people normally go to the bridge.

KATZ: Yeah.

KP: And hope that people forget what the last lyric was when they come back.

KATZ: I was once at an improv class in New York, and a woman named Lisa Mende was my instructor. And I guess we met twice a week, and one time she brought in a pianist who was a friend of hers. I was really so bad – and this was probably in the mid 80s. I was really bad, and the pianist was playing, and I sing one line and then I say, “Take it!” and asked her to do a solo.

KP: Not exactly the way that improv is supposed to work.

KATZ: No, not at all.

KP: Did she take it? I guess in improv you’re not supposed to turn anything down.

KATZ: No, she took the solo, yeah. I can picture her. She was quite beautiful. Although on the other hand my memory is quite jaded. People look so much better in my mind than they do in real life, especially in my mind on the past.

KP: So you’re saying you frequently clean up the images in your memory?

KATZ: Yeah. What do they call it what they do in those girlie magazines?

KP: Airbrush?

KATZ: Airbrush, yeah. I can’t believe I said girlie magazines. That makes me sound like I’m about a thousand.

KP: Give or take. But hey, that could make a comeback.

KATZ: Yeah.

KP: You could reclaim “girlie” for the modern hipsters.

KATZ: Yeah. I always thought that the character Ben on Dr. Katz was always doing cheesecake poses, which is really ancient.

KP: Yeah, but he always struck me as the type that would do it consciously.

KATZ: You’re probably right about that.

KP: As an affectation.

KATZ: Yeah.

KP: And with the belief that it would make himself more appealing to any woman that might encounter him.

KATZ: Yeah. We did Dr. Katz live in New York on Tuesday. That was when we did two shows. One was with Dave Attell and Janeane Garofalo, and one was Janeane, Eugene Mirman, and a guy named Tom Leopold. And Tom Leopold is just like an improvisational genius. He’s on the Jon Benjamin scale in terms of his improvisational speed.

KP: Well, that certainly puts him up there.

KATZ: Yeah

KP: Listening to the audio pieces you did for the DVD, what struck me was that Dr. Katz could return at any point. There’s nothing about the comedy, the presentation, or the premise that’s aged in any way…

KATZ: Right…

KP: So it’s always surprised me that it hasn’t made a comeback yet.

KATZ: Yeah, you and me both.

KP: What was the genesis of doing the new audio pieces for the DVD?

KATZ: People that put out the DVD at Paramount, they do it to generate revenue. And I guess bonus tracks make a DVD much more appealing to a consumer.

KP: The concept does make some sense.

KATZ: Do you own any Dr. Katz DVDs?

KP: Both of them are sitting right here.

KATZ: The bonus tracks I guess were… Tom Snyder and I, we work a lot together still since the cancellation of the show. When we talked about doing the bonus tracks, we needed some kind of angle to make them feel new. And we’re both new to the world of bonus tracks, so he came up with a conceit that was on the 2nd season set, with Emo and Steven Wright and Joy Behar. I think Dr. Katz has always been slightly needier than you want a therapist to be. So he’s calling them just to catch up. That’s thinly disguised on the DVD, but that’s really why he’s generating that call. He’s just lonely.

KP: No no, you definitely get… particularly in the Behar call that he not so much wants to plug his book, as he wants to see that a patient will care about him plugging his book.

KATZ: Yeah. The only patient who really raised the question directly was Dom Irrera; “Who’s your favorite patient?” But I think it cuts both ways. “Who’s your favorite therapist?” was always the question on Dr. Katz’s mind.

KP: Well, it seems like he was just about to take them all out to dinner.

KATZ: Yeah.

KP: There always seemed to be that undercurrent, that he would love to have hung with them socially – just to have someone to hang with socially besides Ben.

KATZ: Well, he hung with Will Le Bow at the bar. But I think you’re right; I think he wants… it’s just like comedians – when you start doing standup, there’s a real desire for the camaraderie of it. Just as important as getting your first laugh on stage is getting your first laugh at the bar. And I think Dr. Katz wanted to be one of the guys.

KP: Do you think, as a character, he was capable of that?

KATZ: No. Totally not. Even with Laura, he wanted her acceptance. I think there’s an episode on this season where he’s trying to get her to hang around to celebrate Christmas with him?

KP: Yes.

KATZ: And it’s really kind of heartbreaking to see how desperate he was for companionship.

KP: Just short of locking her in.

KATZ: Yeah.

KP: In fact, that situation could have turned at any point.

KATZ: She was so close to changing her mind.

KP: Do you think it’s almost more a matter of Dr. Katz keeping Ben around than Ben himself keeping himself around? That the dependency leaned more to him being the motivating factor that kept Ben from ever moving out…

KATZ: I always saw Ben – and Jon Benjamin, of course, may resist this notion – but I always saw Ben as me as a young man. Because I had this incredibly overindulgent father that cut off my allowance when I was 30.

KP: That’s gotta hurt.

KATZ: Yeah. And he just could not say no to me. My dad said to me at one point… he noticed that I was at an age where I should have an income of some sort. But he would never, ever not make his apartment, his food, and even his money available to me. Which is why I was this 35 year old man living in Manhattan who never owned a checkbook.

KP: That’s gotta be quite the learning curve by that point.

KATZ: Yeah. So as much as I loved my dad, he enabled me to stay a boy much too long.

KP: So like Ben, you just really, as you describe him, had no momentum behind you.

KATZ: Right. I was very much like that as a young man. I never met anybody like Jon Benjamin and I never met anybody who approached comedy the way he did. Because my background in comedy – and I think that’s one of the reasons the show survived, is it was totally different than his. He comes to comedy from a totally different angle than me. I try to construct jokes in my mind, and he tries to construct moments.

KP: So you’re saying you have more of an architectural style of comedy?

KATZ: Well, at least it’s the more familiar style. To me. And probably to people my age. Even people who were weaned on stand-up comedy. There’s kind of an elaborate setup. More elaborate than most, in my act. And then it’s sort of a sleight of hand and then I take something out of context, and that’s the joke. I’ll tell you my most elaborate setup, because people laugh not so much at the joke, but they laugh that I would take the trouble to write this joke, I think. It’s about a guy who was a farmer in upstate New York and had to go out of business because he couldn’t make a living, and he went into the phone sex business. And he did it – and this is going to sound cruel – by cutting off the lips of his sheep and the lips of his cows. And he puts them in the barn with a speakerphone. And people call up and they hear, “Ooo, ahh, ooo, ahh.” So all by itself that joke is not that funny. Do you get it?

KP: Yes, I got it.

KATZ: But when I tell it to a live audience, they are so amazed that I conceived of it that they laugh…

KP: I always thought, when viewing your standup, that it was sort of a balancing act. The audience was sort of looking at you up on the trapeze…

KATZ: Yeah.

KP: Wondering when you would take the next step… Would you fall? Would you continue along the surreal lines of the set-up for the finish? It was like watching a dangerous spectacle, because you constructed this sort of bizarre, unique universe around yourself. If that makes any sense…

KATZ: Yeah, I understand what you’re talking about.

KP: I think there are comedians that create bubbles of reality around them.

KATZ: Yeah. But I think I have… Like most comedians, I have trouble censoring myself. Unfortunately, it bleeds into my real life much too much. But I guess my audience is whoever happens to be in the elevator with me.

KP: So you’re saying that essentially anyone can be your audience…

KATZ: I’m always working the crowd. Doesn’t matter if it’s in a comedy club, in an elevator, at Staples, at a restaurant. The only place I try not to work the crowd is at the dinner table with my family, because they deserve better.

KP: How often do you find that people try and work you?

KATZ: Well, when someone finds out I’m a comedian they feel almost obligated to say something funny. Sometimes it’s excruciating how hard they try. Then when I hang out with comedians, which is rare… Dave Attell’s a guy who makes me laugh most. Just the idea of him is pretty funny. And Jon Benjamin, of course. But so much of what he does in life is funny, Jon Benjamin. When we did this live show, one of the conceits was that Ben thinks that my therapy business is in trouble. That I need to spice it up a little bit. So he proposes a million different ways to help generate business. He does it on stage in such a convincing way, and I think we’re pretty believable as a father on son on stage. It’s weird.

KP: What was interesting about the audio commentaries from that first season Dr. Katz set was how quickly you two fell into patterns of playing off each other.

KATZ: That’s true.

KP: That goes back to what I mentioned earlier, that literally it feels like there’s no reason why there couldn’t be more Dr. Katz. Particularly since it’s an animated medium, and based on how the live show and the DVDs have been received, the audience is still very receptive to the characters and the premise.

KATZ: Right. Well, it’s all about money.

KP: Has anyone approached you about re-launching the show?

KATZ: Occasionally. My manager would love to see that happen. That’s the great thing about having a manager when you’re a performer, is that you have somebody else who has a financial interest in your life. But I would love to make more episodes of Dr. Katz.

KP: Loren had mentioned that he was under the impression that you may own Dr. Katz, and that there was some deal worked out years ago with Comedy Central as far as the ability to do more material…

KATZ: It’s much more complicated than that, and something I don’t feel qualified to discuss. Oddly enough.

KP: It isn’t a black & white situation, then…

KATZ: Right.

KP: Did it feel right and natural doing the live shows and bringing the characters back in person?

KATZ: It did, because there’s such a loyal fan base. If nobody showed up it wouldn’t feel right. And also the live show itself is flawed in many ways, and I think we would need a bigger venue, a more theatrical venue. It shouldn’t really be staged in a comedy club, it should be done in a theater and it should be done with very good sound and good lighting and good sight lines. And if people are drinking, I guess that doesn’t bother me but I don’t think it’s necessary, necessarily. I’m not afraid to perform in front of the alert.

KP: Do you think it’s less conducive to the comedy to have a level of inebriation in the room?

KATZ: No, it’s not that. If I was going I’d want to drink.

KP: That’s for different reasons.

KATZ: Yeah. But I think it’s more the physical structure of a comedy club, and the expectation. If you’re a laugh-a-minute guy, you can’t make it in the comedy club. They need much more. You’ll be unemployed. But you can be a laugh-a-minute guy on public radio. You can be a laugh-a-minute on Dr. Katz.

KP: Because of the energy or the level of attention?

KATZ: Because of the audience’s expectations… Because of the attention span of the audience. And because some jokes take a little longer in the construction and don’t necessarily have this enormous payoff that comedy clubs require.

KP: Some have called you a more cerebral comedian than some.

KATZ: If you substitute the R in the word and put in a W, how would you say that?

KP: Like Elmer Fudd?

KATZ: Can you try it?

KP: Cewebwal.

KATZ: That sounds funny! I would pay to see a cewebwal comic.

KP: I should conduct the entire interview like this.

KATZ: Yeah. I was trying to get Sirius to call themselves Siwius. “Here on Siwius Radio.”

KP: I might actually listen to it then.

KATZ: Yeah.

KP: It seems there’s a particular kind of comedian that really depends upon pacing and delivery; Steven Wright being another one…

KATZ: Right.

KP: That it really is about hitting a rhythm within the performance. Was it something that took a long time for you to develop, that balance to where you can bring the audience with you but still not betray the type of comedian you were?

KATZ: I think the thing with me and comedy is I like to give the audience as little information as is necessary for them to get the joke. And I guess if that’s cerebral, then that’s what I am. If it’s annoying, then that’s what I am. But there are other comics, and I guess the guy I admire the most – and I’ve never gone this long without talking about him – is this guy Ronnie Shakes, who is a comedian who died before he turned 40, I think of a heart attack. He was one of Johnny Carson’s favorites. I always tell the same joke, but I’ll tell a different one this time, which is… and he had kind of a 1940s throwback delivery. Had a very big handlebar mustache. And he would say, “I got busted last night on some trumped up charge. They threw me in the clinker, and they said you’re allowed one phone call. Nobody called.” But that was the kind of joke he did. His most famous joke is that “being in therapy for 12 years, yesterday my shrink said something to me that brought tears to my eyes; ‘No habla Ingles.'” He’s a very efficient comedian, and I guess…

KP: Did he have a rapid fire delivery?

KATZ: No, it wasn’t rapid fire at all. He was efficient in his use of words. Rita Rudner is a fan of his, and she’s somebody who I admire in terms of the jokes that she writes. She’s not my favorite performer, but she really is a brilliant joke writer. She helped me with a joke of mine years ago which is, “My wife insists on turning out the lights before we make love. Which does not bother me. It’s the hiding that seems so cruel.” Now I forget how I put it, but I had an extra sentence in there. And when she pointed that out, the joke started working.

KP: It has a natural 3-beat rhythm to it.

KATZ: Yeah.

KP: I mentioned that reality bubble that requires a certain level of attentiveness from the audience, and with this one, it’s not just a knock-knock joke or an observational joke, it’s a situational joke that requires the audience to actually listen to you.

KATZ: Yeah. I told a joke a New York, but it had never worked before. And this is a joke that is interesting because I’m not sure when it’s over. Usually I can tell when a joke is over, but this joke, I honestly don’t know when it ends. It has to do with me coming home the other night and seeing this strange car parked in the driveway. “I got back a day earlier than I anticipated. There was this strange car parked in the driveway. I open the door, I see a cigar smoldering in the ashtray. I tiptoe to the bedroom and there’s my wife in bed with some strange guy, going at it. Now, I don’t smoke.” I didn’t set the joke up correctly. I said, “Maybe I read too many detective novels.” The end of the joke could be, “Now, I don’t smoke.” Or if that doesn’t work, I say, “and then I go back to the ashtray and there’s a naked man smoldering inside the ashtray.” I would keep doing different versions of a joke until I can figure it out, because I think there’s something innately funny about it. Or I could be wrong. That’s the thing about comedians; if a joke doesn’t work, they might say it louder. They might take it up an octave. But ultimately they have to admit it’s just not funny.

katz-05.gifKP: How often in the past have you blamed an audience for a joke not working?

KATZ: When I first started out, if a joke didn’t work I’d always blame the audience. But I would record everything I did, so at some point I had to relieve them of the responsibility and assume it.

KP: What was the joke that you thought was funniest for the longest time, that you eventually came to the realization was simply not funny?

KATZ: I guess it was… “You know the expression you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink? Now they can make him drink. Those Japanese.” And the joke never worked.

KP: I can see what you were going for.

KATZ: Yeah. But to hear 150 people say, “I see what you’re going for,” cannot replace a laugh.

KP: No, I suppose it can’t. Although it would certainly be an interesting discussion for a night at the comedy club.

KATZ: It would be great to try and get them to do that.

KP: You should hand out pencils and a pad of paper when they come in and go, “You know, help me work this out.”

KATZ: Right.

KP: “We’re gonna workshop this.” First interactive standup act.

KATZ: We were doing this thing at Jimmy Tingle’s Off Broadway Theater in Somerville, Massachusetts. Me and Tom Snyder and a guy named Bill Braudis. Wonderful comedian and also wrote on Dr. Katz. He was my first patient, and one of my oldest friends in the comedy business. We were doing something in Somerville, and I would get on stage holding a sign that said “Hysterically Funny” or “Doesn’t Work For Me.” And then we’d ask somebody to come up on stage and hold the sign. And I would tell them a joke. Those two phrases were written on different sides of the sign.

KP: Right. So they’d just flip it back and forth.

KATZ: Yeah. I would tell them a joke and then say, “Now show the audience how you feel about this joke.” And if it said doesn’t work for me, I would bring up somebody else. That kinda stuff works in front of a live audience pretty well. That’s what Tom and I referred to as a set piece. Because I also like to plunge into the audience, into the big unknown more and more these days. Because you really can’t lose if you have the mic and if you’re comfortable on stage. And that’s another thing you’ll hear on my CD, which is my comfort with the audience.

KP: Do you think it’s a hard-won comfort? Is it something that took you a while to achieve?

KATZ: Oh yeah. I used to be terrified of… I would never stray from my act. I was trapped in a one man show that was a hit, for 15 years, and then I met Jon Benjamin and developed confidence in my ability to improvise. It was like, anybody who had seen my act could do it. In fact, my wife did one night, she’d seen my act so many times. They didn’t even change the crowd, they just changed the menu. So when it was time for the third show and I started doing my act, they said, “We saw this before.” So my wife got on stage and finished for me. She has no memory of it, she was so scared.

KP: I have clear memories of your HBO special from years ago. I enjoyed the special, but it almost seemed like you were using the guitar as sort of a protection device. Like, “I’ve got a guitar, back away. Don’t get too close.”

KATZ: That was one of the big things in my career was the day I let go of my guitar. And I did it because some guy from the Letterman show approached me and wanted me to do the show but he said, “You can’t bring the guitar with you.” So I had a great reason to learn how to do five minutes of comedy.

KP: Was that like asking you to perform naked?

KATZ: In a certain way, yeah.

KP: Did you use that as a way of distancing yourself from the audience and the situation?

KATZ: No, it was just… the guitar was not really a guitar. I mean, it was a guitar, but it had a tape deck built into the guitar. So I wasn’t really playing, I was pretending to be playing. And I know there are little certain things on that tape that would work, and also it’s a way of sort of injecting some new energy into a show.

KP: At what point did you realize that the guitar was not necessary?

KATZ: Well, I probably would have still been doing it if it wasn’t for the fact that this guy suggested I could be on the Letterman show. And that was in 1983 or ’84. In ’85 I made my debut on Letterman.

KP: Does it surprise you to think that it’s 22 years ago?

KATZ: Who’s doing your math? Yeah, you’re right. It is kind of surprising.

KP: So, knowing how successful Dr. Katz live was, how well the DVDs have been selling, you have the CD coming out, you’re obviously doing the radio projects, you’ve got documentary projects you’ve been working on – what is the one thing that you really want to see happen in the next year?

KATZ: I guess the space ship. The trip into space. No, I have a role in a movie that’s coming out this year called Are We Done Yet, starring Ice Cube. And I have an occasional role on an ABC show called Help Me Help You. I guess the thing I would like the most is to have my own radio show.

KP: On standard terrestrial radio, or does internet radio appeal to you? Like podcasting?

KATZ: I think what appeals to me is both a combination of work and income. So I guess I’m talking about satellite radio, or commercial radio. But I don’t know if there’s an appetite for what I do on any kind of radio where they would have a budget for a weekly show.

KP: Considering that you could still fill an audience with Dr. Katz and people are still seeking you out, I don’t see how you can think there’s not an audience.

KATZ: Okay, I’ll do it.

KP: Wow. See how easy that was?

KATZ: Okay. You know, I produce a radio show everyday called Hey, We’re Back. And last week I did an interview with Bob Dylan, and at the end of it when I told my wife and daughter about it they reminded me that I don’t really have a radio show. The fact that no one is paying me doesn’t prevent me from producing one. I’m sort of compelled to do it.

KP: But that’s the whole ethos behind the internet.

KATZ: Yeah.

KP: I think you’d make money on the internet if you went the podcasting route. But that’s just me saying it.

KATZ: Do you?

KP: Considering my job is working on the internet doing these kind of things, I guess I’m one of the success stories.

KATZ: Well, maybe you and I should talk to my manager. My web designer is a believer in podcasting. She often talks about some enormously successful song that was just put up there. Or YouTube. Let me talk to my manager about this conversation. I think you make an interesting point.

##

December 22, 2006

10 Quick Questions: Mary Elizabeth Winstead

Filed under: 10 Quick Questions,Columns,Interviews,Trailer Park — admin @ 12:58 am
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by Christopher Stipp

I just couldn’t believe it.

One of the best parts after I get done interviewing someone is deconstructing what I think is the essence of what was talked about. Be it someone who I thought kept yammering on about nothing in particular, someone who had nothing to offer but their breath or when someone says something insightful it has always been a unique experience. This brings us, then, to Mary.

One of the very first things after I hung up the phone after we were done conversing about her new film BLACK CHRISTMAS, the one she’s starring in with Quentin Tarantino behind the lens, GRINDHOUSE, or the latest in the DIE HARD franchise, I was taken with how succinct and clear her answers were to my queries. It’s customary for there to be some gaps of silence as the person I’ve just asked a question to chews on what I’ve said and thinks about a response.

Not Mary. Quite contrary.

I had a roster of questions ready to go and she just shredded through them without even giving a moment’s hesitation. She sliced through the customary vagaries that many of her contemporaries toss out like speed bumps, usually asking me, “What was the question again?” Mary had an answer waiting for every one of my thoughts. She even schooled me on a well-known It was this extemporaneous back and forth that I so wish could happen with every interview I do but Mary deserves credit for just getting right into things, I admit that I wasn’t asking anything too personal that would cause a natural wall to go up, but I think it was her exuberance that I hope shines through in the coming exchange. From not ever hearing of her to seeing her on stage at the San Diego Comic-Con this past summer and being taken by her wide-eyed happiness it’s hard to think that she could end up being sliced and diced in this remake of a film that was filmed first by the man who would eventually bring me A CHRISTMAS STORY in 1983, a full year before Mary was even born.

Man, did that just make me feel old. BLACK CHRISTMAS opens this Monday, December 25th.

P.S. – Late breaking news. If you’d like to glimpse the wonderment that is GRINDHOUSE Yahoo! has just put up the exclusive teaser trailer on their site. Do yourself a favor, check it out.

Christopher Stipp: Well, thanks for making time for me.

Mary Elizabeth Winstead: Of course! No problem at all.

Stipp: Let me right to it and ask what made you want to do another horror movie after FINAL DESTINATION 3?

Winstead: It was interesting. I was actually somewhat hesitant and not because I have anything against horror movies, I’m actually a big horror movie fan, but I wasn’t sure it was the right thing to do, one horror movie on top of another horror movie. But I love Glen Morgan and [producer] James Wong and all of the crew of FINAL DESTINATION 3 so much and it was such a great experience doing that film so I couldn’t pass up the opportunity to go through it again with them.

I figured it would be fun”¦Horror movies are such great things to film because every day is high adrenaline, high energy, so I figured why not.

Stipp: That was something I was going to bring up later in the interview but since you’ve said it I’m curious to know how if there’s a difficulty to keep up that sense of dread or fear, take after take after take?

Winstead: It can be a bit draining sometimes. It’s quite challenging. I think actors in horror movies get kind of a bad rap for not being the most talented actors out there but it’s one of the hardest thing to do, generating that fear, because it’s not easy to draw from. So, for me, I had to kind of start out by being emotional and thinking about things that really saddened me, and frightened me, like death and thinking about people I love dying and just drawing from that kind of emotion that would bring me to that fear. So it was definitely draining but, at the end of the day, it was very rewarding.

Stipp: Could I ask if whether being in a slasher film like BLACK CHRISTMAS, where a guy stalks women in a sorority house, has any base in reality where some people think that this just perpetuates the notion of violence against women?

Winstead: I don’t see this as being derogatory towards women. I think that horror films, especially slasher films, can be analyzed in so many different ways and have been. There’s the whole thing with the “final girl” and it’s really interesting because I was talking to Quentin Tarantino about it a few weeks ago of all the different studies and ways of viewing that.

I don’t think it can be looked at in that one dimensional, close-minded way. So, I think it’s entertainment and it can be taken for however you want to take it.

Stipp: Right. And now you’re going to be in GRINDHOUSE”¦ Another”¦

Winstead: Yeah!

[Laughs]

Stipp: I swear one of my questions was going to be whether you were going to continue down this path and possibly remake PSYCHO COP or CHOPPING MALL.

Winstead: I know!

[Laughs]

I’m not intentionally seeking out horror movies but I am not going to turn a good part down just because of its genre so I’m up for anything.

Stipp: So how was working with Quentin and his envisioning of what a horror, splatter, exploitation flick should be and your experience on BLACK CHRISTMAS?

Winstead: Quentin is really just all out fun.

A lot of the scenes were comical and over the top and crazy so there wasn’t really any real lot of fear or emotion. Most of my scenes are just filled with dialogue with Rosario Dawson and Tracie Thoms, just hanging out and being girls, just having fun. And then it gets sort of twisted at a certain point but it’s still in this campy, fun way. So, every day we just laughing after every take. We were just howling. So, it wasn’t as dark as the other horror films I’ve done.

Stipp: And I have to mention that I saw some of Robert’s footage during Comic-Con this past summer.

Winstead: Oh, really? Nice”¦ The two of them together”¦it’s just a crazy, fun environment. I miss it, very much.

Stipp: Being there, and being in the eye of the presentation during Comic-Con where you had hundreds of geeks just screaming and roaring what was it like to be a part of something like that? Being an actress I have to believe that you don’t get many opportunities to be front and center like that.

Winstead: It was so crazy. For one thing, I was really surprised that I was even invited to be there. I figured it was just going to be Quentin and Robert, maybe Rosario, even the more well known stars of the film, so I was very excited that I was invited to even be on the panel. And, beyond that, I expected that I was just going to sit there silent the whole time and no one would know who I was. So it was really strange that I actually got questions from the audience about work I had done. That was such a shock to me. It was kind of the first time that I realized anyone out there actually knew my name and had seen my work before.

[Laughs]

It was really a fun, fun experience.

Stipp: Do you get more of that with every project you take on? A little more public recognition? With SKY HIGH, you’ve got to have a cadre of small fans who’ve probably watched that thing again and again while now you’re also cultivating a more mature audience with BLACK CHRISTMAS and later on, GRINDHOUSE and DIE HARD 4.

Winstead: Yeah, a little bit.

I see it more online than anywhere else where you can see it growing like on web sites and message boards dedicated to you, which is so strange. So, it’s still in this sort of fantasy world to me and it doesn’t feel real. It’s like, “Oh, there are some people talking about me online.” Out in the real world, no one knows who I am.

So, it’s strange to think that those are real people out there, people who have seen my work and are true fans. I have yet to meet a lot of them because I haven’t been to those kinds of conventions but every now and then I’ll get recognized on the street but most of the time it’s just double-takes from people who say, “You look familiar.” At a restaurant the other day the waiter said I looked like a girl from FINAL DESTINATION 3. But it’s not to a degree where I feel any level of fame yet.

Stipp: Now, with this being the holiday season and BLACK CHRISTMAS being a warm movie you can take the whole family to, I recently took my family, namely my daughter, for the first time to see the Nutcracker. I found out that one of the first productions you really were involved with was the Nutcracker. I’m curious to know which part you played and whether you thought ballet was the route you were going to go in for the duration of your career.

Winstead: I did, absolutely. As a child, I acted and I loved acting but ballet was my heart’s career choice. Over the years I’ve been almost every character in that production because I did a few years, I was Clara when I was 12, I was the mechanical doll, I was Chinese, Russian, I was the Snow Queen, I was everything. That was something I really loved and was passionate about it. I went to New York and did summer programs with the Joffrey Ballet School and, at one point, I just realized that it probably wasn’t going to go as far as I wanted to just because I was really tall for my age and it’s such a precise career as far as physicality”¦you have to fit into this mold. I didn’t want to put myself through that. I realized that the thing I loved most about it was the performance and being able to act and play characters on stage so I figured, “Why not just stick with that.”

It was a nice training background for me and I miss it. I still try and take classes whenever I can.

Stipp: Are your feet all jacked up or do they at least look good in a pair of flip-flops?

[Laughs]

Winstead: They’re nice! I think I got out of it just in time.

I had some teachers at Joffrey who wouldn’t even let you pad your toe shoes because they want you to toughen up.

Stipp: You’re kidding”¦

Winstead: Any more years of that and I would be totally deformed looking. But I think I got away just in time.

Stipp: Now, from GRINDHOUSE you’re hitting the screen again on July 4th of 2007 with DIE HARD 4.

Winstead: Yes”¦.

Stipp: Lucy McClane all grown up. And I know some people will knock it but Len Wiseman did a great job with UNDERWORLD. He made that movie knowing exactly what he wanted to get out of it. Are you finding he’s bringing that same sensibility to DIE HARD 4?

Winstead: Well, it’s been fun so far. I am still working on it until the end of January. I haven’t yet gotten into some of my bigger stuff so it’s hard to say exactly as I’ve only done a few scenes here and there, I’m still just getting a feel for it but it’s been great because it has been a different experience for me. I’ve never done a big action movie. There so much focus on that [the action], and a little less on my own performance, that I kind of have to deal with that myself.

[Laughs]

As I try to bring what I can to the table with all that’s going on. There’s a lot more waiting around for the scenes to be set up because the explosions have to happen at the EXACT right time. The cars have to drive away at the exact right time. There’s so much more, technically, going on but Len is handling it so well. It would seem like it’s such a high stress type of job but he’s so calm, and so fun loving through it all. I think that’s a good sign of someone who knows what they’re doing, not letting it get you.

Stipp: On the subject of where you really got some experience in front of a camera, namely television productions, a lot of actors recently who have traditionally been in film have been making the move to the small screen. Any ambitions to ever go back?

Winstead: Not right now. I’m so excited to have been doing back-to-back films, it’s such an exciting and now thing for me, I really never thought it would happen for me because I was such a pilot kid growing up. I would come out, do a pilot, it wouldn’t get picked up, and I would do it again next year and I kind of felt like I was going to be doomed to repeat that for my entire career.

But the fact that I have been able to do film after film after film”¦it’s been the best year ever. It’s made me really want to try and continue to focus on that. Maybe when I get a little bit older and I want to settle down and have a little more stability I think that would be a great thing to be on a TV show, have a steady income and have a steady place where you live and work. I think that’s a real attractive idea but, right now, while I can I might as well live a little crazier life and travel all over the place doing different films. We’ll see what happens.

Stipp: Being a young actress, competing with other young actresses, is there an outside pressure to keep going at a film career while you’re able to have one, to not let this moment slip by?

Winstead: I don’t really think of other actresses as competition, just because I feel like everyone is so different and everyone brings something completely different to the roles that they play so that when I am meeting for different roles, and I see another actress there, I don’t have that competitive edge like, “Oh, I’ve got to get it over her. I’ve got to do better than her.” I think that everyone is going to be liked or disliked for completely different reasons.

But it is hard, when you hear on a pretty consistent basis, “Well, we need someone more famous. We need someone more famous.” That’s something I’ve been hearing for years but I’ve gotten to the point where now it’s, “Well, you’re almost there but not quite.” So, I’m still struggling with that but you have to keep working at it and hopefully you’ll get past that point, you WILL BE the person getting the roles and hopefully I’ll have paid my dues and deserve that moment when it comes for me.

Stipp: So then do you have some more projects lined up as soon as DIE HARD 4 finishes?

Winstead: Not yet.

I’m taking meetings and reading scripts, just trying to find the best thing and hoping to take small steps ahead with each thing as I build up my career and try to get to the next level. I’m hoping to find the thing that will take me there.

Stipp: Can you be more picky now?

Winstead: Definitely, yeah.

It’s an interesting place to be. For the first time in my career I am turning things down which I never imagined I would be doing. I would take almost anything as long as it wasn’t degrading to me as a person. If it was work, it was work and I was happy to do it. And I still feel that to a certain extent so it’s very hard for me to say no when someone wants to work with me. I’m just having to be smart about it and only choose films that are going to be a step ahead, not a step back.

Stipp: And how do you get that feeling, from the script in your hands to what you think will actually be shot? In two different hands I think you could have two different movies based on the same source material.

Winstead: Right, that’s true too. It can be very objective when you read a script and there have been scripts in the past where I thought, “That’s not a very good script. I think this movie is going to be pretty bad.” And then I see the movie and it turns out to be really great!

And so it’s hard when I turn something down because I think, “What if it turns out to be the greatest thing ever?” You’ve just got to trust your instincts and go for it because, at the end of the day, if it does turn out to be a mistake, whatever. There’s always something else waiting at the end of the road.

Stipp: And so what popped out at you when you read the script for BLACK CHRISTMAS? Or was it a pitch that began, “Stay with me, don’t laugh or say no but”¦it’s a remake”¦of a horror movie”¦”

[Laughs]

Winstead: Well, I really enjoyed the original BLACK CHRISTMAS. Olivia Hussey was one of the reasons I wanted to be an actress as a child because I did a school production of Romeo and Juliet and I watched her version of it everyday for almost a year and I just wanted to be her so she’s always been on my list of idols. Hence, being in a movie that’s a remake of one that she starred in was pretty cool and the character was something new for me, nothing I’ve ever played before, sort of a debutant socialite snob. I’ve always played like the Nice Girl or the Girl Everyone Likes so I thought it was different.

Stipp: Last question: It’s Christmas time. What do you have planned?

Winstead: I’m going home to North Carolina to see my family, I’ve got a big family, 5 kids in the family, and they all have kids for the most part so all of us are going to go and rent a Bed N’ Breakfast in Asheville, North Carolina. There’s all sorts of tourist-y things to do up there like crazy gingerbread house making contests and it’s just going to be nice.

##

December 8, 2006

10 Quick Questions: Blake Mycoskie & Missy Peregrym

Filed under: 10 Quick Questions,Interviews,Trailer Park — admin @ 4:50 am

 

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by Christopher Stipp

I’m a terrible human being.

I have a Masters degree in Adult Education and Distance Learning and you think that I could do something worthwhile with that. Teach a class, mentor one of the forty plus million American adults who are functionally illiterate in this country, even help my own father with learning the difference between “there” and “they’re” would be a great start but, no, I just ply my wordsmithing here in this corner of the Internet and try to delude myself into thinking that I am giving some kind of esoteric pleasure to a few readers every week.

No, Blake Mycoskie is the real man of the year after hearing how this one-time reality TV star of what is the gold Emmy standard of all reality television, The Amazing Race, turned his passion of entrepreneurship into a thriving shoe company that goes beyond having the latest, greatest athlete sport his wares.

Blake has gone beyond creating a shoe that simply breaks your heart with the story of what went brought them to market, he has found out a way to rock your feet with a unique take on an old classic all the while being a model for what good corporate stewardship should be. No one should ever mistake Blake’s commitment to quality, not after you listen to how every pair of his TOMS Shoes is constructed but that, for every pair purchased, another pair is given to a child really less fortunate than either you or I. For those who don’t get it it’s easy: buy a pair, give a pair.

Charity has never been easier.

This year saw the development, planning, launch and debut of Mycoskie’s brain child while still finding time to have his inaugural “shoe drop” for kids in real need of footwear descend into Argentina in order to distribute 10,000 pairs of shoes. There are people who never do as much as Blake has done for other people who need more than they’ve been given and it’s only been his drive, spirit and help of those in higher profile positions, like actress Missy Peregrym, star of this year’s Stick It, to give Blake a little public boost.

As we talked about what makes this shoe unique and how one can go about buying a piece of high comfort, low cost, footwear you will see why this interview has already sparked a couple of purchases even before the ink was dry on this introduction.

You can’t help but feel inspired by what these shoes have meant to those who have in contact with them and, going into the holiday season, I would recommend that you go click on over to the TOMS Shoes website and either start browsing for your own pair or find out how easy it is to gift these bad boys for those you love. At $38 per pair, regardless if you’re a Bigfoot like me or a midget toed doe like your old lady, the site is an interactive joy to navigate. Find out why SPIDER-MAN 3’s Tobey Maguire is a fan (if you can’t trust Spider-Man, who can you trust?) or just know, all kidding aside, that there are kids in this world who deserve to have their feet protected and all you have to do is buy yourself a pair of TOMS Shoes.

This is one of the most inspiring pieces I’ve been able to write for Quick Stop this year and I thank Blake and Missy for giving me some of their own time in order to help me understand how shoes can make a difference in the lives of so many.

 

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CHRISTOPHER STIPP: Well, thank you for making time to talk to me. Now, I’ve read all the materials about TOMS Shoes but, for those at home, tell me how this all came about.

BLAKE MYCOSKIE: I was down in Argentina in January of this past year, basically hanging out on a farm, learning how to play polo and kind of getting away from the world. When I was down there I came across a shoe called the alpargata. The alpargata is a traditional Argentine farmer shoe that farmers have been wearing for hundreds of years and because the polo players, all their horses are on the farm, they spend a lot of time on the farms in Argentina, they were all wearing them after the games and since I was down there ready to play polo I thought, well, I’ll buy a pair and slip them on.

stipp-02.jpgAnd as soon as I put them on, I loved them. I thought they were cool, I thought they were really lightweight and comfortable. I grew up wearing Vans nonstop. So, to me, they were like a lighter weight Vans and were something different. I liked the style, I was wearing them around and on the last week of my trip I had already contacted a group called Insight Argentina before I went down there to do some volunteer work. What the organization does is to facilitate Americans and Europeans who are coming to South America for opportunities to volunteer. So, I met with my contact, her name as Angelique, and she told me that one of their big initiatives that they were doing was a shoe drive; they were going around colleting used shoes from people in Buenos Aires and taking them to different villages in Argentina for the kids.

I had never experienced that and when I went to one village and saw all these kids without shoes, and saw what they were doing, I guess from an entrepreneurial standpoint my mind was like, “There’s got to be a better way than just giving these kids used shoes that, typically, don’t even fit them.” Especially, when there’s this great alpargata shoe that they have which is their national shoe; it’s not that expensive.

The next day I was sitting on a farm with my buddy who’s a polo player who now runs our business down there, and this sounds kind of cheesy, but I literally turned to him and said, “I’ve got an idea. I’m going to start a shoe company and every pair of shoes that I sell I am going to give one pair back to these children that I met who don’t have shoes. We’re gong to provide shoes for tomorrow and the company is going to be called TOMS.” And, literally, from that first kind of idea it hasn’t really changed all that much.

So, I had the idea and he loved it and I don’t speak Spanish so I needed his help to translate. Right there, about at that same time, I sat there and showed him the alpargata shoe and kind of just spurted out my ideas of, “Let’s put a rubber sole, let’s do a nice leather insole, we’ll do multiple colors on the toes and the heels and he loved it. He was like, “Ok, let’s do it!” I ended up staying in Argentina an extra couple months, learning everything I could about the shoe business, it was quite funny, because everywhere I went people thought I was crazy; this is their peasant shoe. “Why in America would anyone want to buy an alpargata when you’ve got Nike and Reebok?”

stipp-03.jpgThey just didn’t get it. It made things difficult because they didn’t believe me when I said, to a supplier, “I’m going to buy this much fabric.” Or, “I want to hire you to do this,” and they figured, “Oh, you’re going to make, like, 10 of them and never see you again.” So it was important for me to explain that I was serious and that I had the financial backing to do it. We made the shoes, we made 200 pairs, a couple of little mom and pop makers helped to make the initial pairs. Even after that we just grew upon those and we’re still aren’t in a very large factory; it’s a very small operation.

And I came back at the end of April, beginning of May, with my 200 pairs and gave them to my friends here in LA and, luckily, I had some friends who were connected with some different celebrities so we were able to quickly to get them on a few of them, one of the first being Sienna Miller. That was a huge breakthrough because when that came out in OK magazine it was just about the time I was trying to get them into stores. And I’d like to give some stores credit who actually ordered TOMS before the story broke: American Rag, Scoop in New York, Milk on Melrose and Fred Segal. From that, we just got some press and some celebrities and it just kind of took off.

And that’s where Missy comes in! I’m done!

[Laughs]

STIPP: So, Missy, how DID you become involved with this footwear?

MISSY PEREGRYM:
Well, I went to this Emmy suite gift lounge where Blake was doing some charity for the event and I felt really bad because you’re supposed to give $40 when you went in and I did not have it. I had”¦how much did I have Blake?

MYCOSKIE:
You had 26 dollars.

[Laughs]

stipp-04.jpgPEREGRYM: I felt bad that I didn’t have that to contribute because they explained that if I pay the money then they’ll give me a pair and some kid gets another pair too. And, after I walked around, and got to his booth I was really impressed with what the company stood for, and I felt TERRIBLE that I only had $26 to contribute, and I knew there was no way I could take a pair of shoes, I couldn’t even pay for them. So, I was like, “Can you please take my $26 and maybe you can give my shoes to another kid?”

And Blake was, “No, get out of here.” He was really mean.

[Laughs]

No, he said, “I’ll give you a pair and I’ll give 2 pair of shoes to a kid.” And I thought, “Wow, that was really cool.” So, at that point I left and my publicist actually saw Blake the next day and said, “We want to go to Argentina.”

[Laughs]

Because, while I was talking with Blake he mentioned that he was going to be doing a shoe drop in Argentina. And it’s one those things where we’ve tried so many times to get involved with different charities and I’ve always wanted to volunteer but it was always so difficult because things were always getting ripped out from underneath me right before we were going to go do something. And when my publicist called me to tell me we were going to go do the shoe drop I was skeptical. I kind of never held onto the idea at all. When we found out that it was going to work out after all I had to, first of all, raise the money to be able and go. That’s when Joshua Miller and Tim Jackson from Category One Entertainment were really kind and actually sponsored me and my publicist Tej to be able and go on the trip. It turned out that I was almost not able to go because I booked a job a week before I was supposed to leave.

I didn’t think I could go and I was devastated that I was going to have to be in Atlanta instead of Argentina. I couldn’t understand why I was finally able to do something I wanted to be a part of and now I get a job, after a year. Then, four days later after getting the job, it didn’t work out that I could go on the job because they didn’t have enough time to work out my working papers; they didn’t have enough time to transfer my stipp-05.jpgvisa to go work with the studio. So, I lost a job, but I couldn’t really cry about it because now I had the chance to go to Argentina.

I ended up being able to go and it was, truly, the most amazing experience. It was life changing. It sounds so cliché but it’s the absolute truth.

One of the things that’s the most significant to me is that you go down there”¦obviously it feels good that you’re going to be doing something good for somebody else, you’re going to be giving these kids shoes, and you’re going to make them happy but, to tell you the truth, the kids are already happy. The real things in life, like love, and family and community, they already have it and demonstrate that in their daily lives. It was the most unselfish way of life and that’s what kind of hit me more than anything because they have almost nothing. They’re playing soccer with plastic bags and they’re such happy kids.

I wish I could have brought THAT back to America. I wish I could take that experience and just be able to share it with everyone to see what the most important thing in life really is and even though these shoes”¦these shoes are imperative, it was a huge help to their society.

I knew it was going to impact me in a great way but never in that way. I didn’t think they would be as happy as they were. I don’t know. It was just so hard to come back to LA after that, especially Hollywood. So, it was difficult for me to get my head back in the game and just even want to be here after experiencing that. It made me just want to go and live there.

MYCOSKIE:
I think, for me, the joy of the kids was something none of us could have anticipated. The greatest thing about the shoe drop, and what has really inspired me to grow the concept even more, and I knew the kids would be happy to get shoes and that the families would be very grateful to have this because it is a health issue when you don’t have shoes and you’re walking on ground that is very rough and get cuts and scrapes and your feet get infected and you don’t have medicine, I knew what we were doing was important. But what I didn’t anticipate was the joy I would experience in seeing the people we took down there, like Missy, like Tej, like my parents, like my brother and sister, like my interns from this summer, and really seeing the change in their lives both during the trip and when they got back.

stipp-06.jpgOnce I got down there I was so emotional, and it was so overwhelming to have all these people I cared about, who were dedicating their time and money to be down there to help me fulfill my dream of giving these shoes away to see how touched they were and the joy they experienced in connecting with the kids was the most amazing byproduct of the whole thing.

Now, what I’m trying to do is, instead of setting up these major shoe drops where we are giving away 10,000 pairs of shoes over a week, create an infrastructure where shoe drops can be going on, literally, six months a year where we are sending groups down, 10 or 20 people at a time, and have a full-time staff down there facilitating them so that literally hundreds, if not thousands, of people from the US could experience the joy and then come back to their respective communities and spread the joy of giving.

PEREGRYM: And I hope I can do that in MY everyday life, and not just with traveling the world and giving kids shoes, but I hope my way of thinking is different and I can apply that kind generosity in every part of my life. And, if everyone did that, I just think it would transform this country so much.

STIPP: And on that point, Missy, looking through some of your photo spreads I am reminded of layouts where you are wearing $300 shoes, opulent clothes, how do you reconcile that with having to play the Hollywood game?

PEREGRYM: I totally understand that. I already had a problem with the industry as it frustrated me, and stressed me out, that every event you go to, God forbid, you wear the wear the same thing over because, “That’s weird.”

So, I try not to play that game. I had a hard time going to photo shoots or doing any of that stuff which seemed self-glorifying. I wanted to do something that would change things for the better and I didn’t think that me, acting, was doing that. So, TOMS Shoes gave me something more than just an experience.

I feel more comfortable with the way I go about things now. It just kind of confirms that I can do that and that, in this industry, the focus is on the wrong things.

Besides, TOMS Shoes are cool anyways. And by wearing TOMS Shoes it’s not like I am sacrificing anything, at all. It’s not like I look like a dumbass walking around in TOMS Shoes.

[Laughing]

STIPP: And, to that point, Blake, how can I go about getting a pair for myself? Are you in stores, nationwide?

MYCOSKIE: Well, it’s exciting. I did not come from the fashion or shoe business; I’ve learned a lot in the seven months I’ve been in it.

stipp-07.jpgWhen you’re working on establishing a brand you, initially, put it in some very unique, select spots and keep it limited to create buzz and that’s what we did this summer. We were in some top boutiques in LA, top boutiques in New York, maybe one or two in Chicago; we kept it kind of limited on purpose to create the buzz. And, now that we have, in the Spring we are going to be in 72 out of 80 Nordstrom’s, we’ll be in every single Urban Outfitters, we’ll be in 30% of the Bloomingdale’s and then we’ll be in over 150 boutiques nationwide.

You can, though, order them online. And that’s one of the great things about the shoe, too. It’s a $38 shoe. You know your size, you know it’s going to fit. It’s not one of those “It’s gotta fit perfectly” kind of shoe. So, of the first 10,000 pairs of shoes we sold almost half of them have been online. That way we can establish a longer relationship with the person who bought the shoes.

We just did a mailer where I sent a picture of one of the kids to every single person who bought a pair of shoes and a thank-you note so we can kind of communicate that way. We really encourage people to buy them online.

STIPP: And, Missy, what else is on your plate, work wise, as I just looked at IMDB and there isn’t anything on there since your turn in STICK IT.

PEREGRYM: I know”¦

STIPP: Are you getting lazy?

[Laughs]

PEREGRYM: No! I’m just really picky with the stuff I want to do and it’s funny because I was like, “Yes, I’ve done a movie and now it’s going to be REALLY easy from here on.”

To tell you the truth, it just got more difficult because then the projects I was offered was either something so similar to STICK IT or horror movies and I can’t even read the script let alone be a part of something like that. And I didn’t even do pilot season last year because I thought, “No, I’m just going to do film.” I just wasn’t impressed with what I was seeing and now I’m just taking my time with everything and making sure the next project I do is something I can go at one hundred percent. I just really want to believe in it and be proud of it. I mean it’s documented for the rest of my life.

I’d rather wait around and do another project that I’m happy to be a part of so, I don’t know, basically I’m still doing what I do, I’m trying to create a television series. It’s called Stupid and Contagious. I’m trying to get on the other side of things as well; I’m tired of waiting for something to be created for me but I also don’t have the patience for that so we’ll see how that goes.

STIPP: Did you catch any of that entrepreneurial spirit of Blake’s and think about just creating your own thing? Strike out and make your own magic happen?


stipp-08.jpgPEREGRYM:
Well, to start something from nothing is not something I would want to do and it’s just difficult because in this industry it just takes a long time”¦you even have an idea of a project it takes years for it to actually go through. I know enough of the right people right now that hopefully this will work out with the next project but it doesn’t really matter what you try to do; it is always in the hands of other people.

You can’t really do your own thing. So, to some degree I just have to accept the fact I don’t have the control over everything and I’m becoming a little bit better at that but I also do believe that the right project is going to come up too. I know it’s just a matter of time.

I’d rather wait and not compromise my morals and values just for a paycheck. We’ll see how that works out; I’m not really eating anymore.

[Laughs]

STIPP: And Blake, last question, I know you’re trying to increase the amount of shoes you produce and that you’re committed to making sure the locations where these shoes are made do enough for their workers. Are you aware of the economies of scale and that as the numbers increase you will need to find more and more places that can adequately fulfill demand?

MYCOSKIE: Yeah, and because of all the negative press that shoe companies have gotten, due to labor practices, we, as a culture, are more aware of these things. And, as a consumer, we are much more interested in supporting brands and companies that operate in places where they respect human beings. There are a lot more options today than there were.

In a couple of weeks I am going to Asia to visit several factories that could really help us with scaling There’s even a ranking system now, from one being health benefits and amazing work standards, and paying above minimum wage, etc”¦ all the way to a class four, something I don’t even want to see; I don’t even want them to exist but it does.

So, in setting up these meetings”¦we’re only meeting with class one facilities. We’re not going to exploit one person to help another.

We’re going to make sure that wherever TOMS are made, be that Africa, Asia or Argentina or wherever, that we are only contributing to the goodwill of the people making the shoes.

STIPP: Coincidently, as a sidebar I know that prior to this interview I listened to a story on PRI’s This American Life about how Cambodia wants to be a player on the world stage with regard to fashion and the manufacturing of it but they’re having problems with doing so because not only have the Khmer Rouge been expunged from their daily lives, and not only are they are one of the rarer Asian countries who believe strongly in the idea of treating their workers better than any of their neighbors but there seems to be no help forthcoming from the United States, a country who Cambodia is trying to reach out to in the hopes someone will recognize what they’re trying to do.


MYCOSKIE:
Yes, Cambodia, different parts of West Africa. I am learning so much and I feel like God is getting me back now because I didn’t get through college.

I just can’t make shoes anymore. I need to understand the political aspects of what’s going on so that we really do make the right choices on where we do production.

December 5, 2006

Holiday Havoc Day 3: Howard Shore

Filed under: Articles,Holiday Havoc,Interviews — UncaScroogeMcD @ 12:46 am

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howardshore2006-12-5-01.jpgThirty years ago, Howard Shore was a recently transplanted Canadian brought to New York City – 30 Rockefeller Center, to be exact – to be the bandleader for a soon-to-premiere, upstart late night comedy show called Saturday Night Live. Within five years, he done over a hundred live broadcasts, helped Dan Aykroyd and John Belushi put together the original Blues Brothers Band, and much more.

During the 80’s, however, Howard made the full-time transition to film composing, becoming an important collaborator with David Cronenberg, and eventually hooking up with Peter Jackson for his epic adaptation of The Lord of The Rings. While abridged soundtrack albums have available for years, the rather rare and exciting step of releasing the full, unedited scores for the films began last year with the debut of Fellowship of The Ring: The Complete Recordings, and this Fall has seen the release of The Two Towers (with Return of the King on tap for next year).

We got a chance to chat with Howard about the Rings scores, as well as SNL

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KEN PLUME: My first question, to dive right in – do you see any distinction between being a film composer and a composer outside of film?

HOWARD SHORE: Well, they are different in sense of collaboration. To work in film is a very collaborative art. It’s like theater, and so you have to have a good sense of working well with other people. If you’re writing for a concert hall, it’s a less collaborative approach.

KEN PLUME: Do you find that film takes you in directions that you wouldn’t otherwise normally go, creatively?

SHORE: Yes. That’s what’s interesting about it. It does do that, and it takes you into places you may never have gone, and I love that about it.

KEN PLUME: If you were to choose a particular film score that was completely shocking to you as far as that sense of discovery, what’s the furthest you’ve ever gone into a territory that is just alien to you?

SHORE: (laughing) Well, I don’t know. A lot of projects that I’ve done, some of them have been very challenging. I think some of the work with David Cronenberg has taken us on some interesting paths. Films like Crash and Naked Lunch. But also Middle Earth was an interesting, challenging world to go to and to create music for.

KEN PLUME: In what respect?

SHORE: Just to create a world in music, that was a Tolkien book. Because really that’s what you’re doing. You’re trying to do a piece that mirrors the world that he created.

KEN PLUME: Would you say that, comparatively, the amount of music required for something like Lord of the Rings is much more than the standard film you would score? Not just in terms of running time, but as far as how the music is used within the piece?

SHORE: I think it’s used in a very specific way in Lord of the Rings. An older style, really, like a film from the 40’s. And the music is written in a mid-19th century style. It was really trying to capture a sense of history to this world, long ago. And we wanted the films to stand up to the test of time. The music for those films, for Lord of the Rings, took close to four years to create. Film music for other films might not necessarily take that long… Although I have worked on some films, single films, for a year.

KEN PLUME: Is that usually just a matter of you and a director reaching the point that you want to get to?

SHORE: I think sometimes you just… the process is… it is what it is. Some films require a certain focus, and working together with the editor and the director to arrive at the film. Some projects just take time to do that.

KEN PLUME: Is there any film that, during the process, you reached an impasse for a period of time that just left you stymied?

SHORE: I think that when you have good collaborators, they help you when you need help, and you do the same thing for them. They might be struggling on something and you can offer help to them. I think that’s the good process of making a film, is that camaraderie with filmmakers in working toward a common goal.

KEN PLUME: How difficult is it for you when the collaboration is not so good?

SHORE: You can’t achieve greatness if it’s not good. You can only do something great if you have the collaboration. Because as I say, filmmaking is collaborative. So there has to be a sense of collaboration to create something really great. And if you look at the history of film, you’ll see incredible collaborations with actors and directors. With cinematographers and directors. With writers and directors. With composers and directors. With editors and composers. You see that all through the history of film.

KEN PLUME: Do you find that your method of approaching a film has changed any in the past 30 years?

SHORE: Yes, it has. More, you want to delve deeper, and you’re interested in the tale and in the complexity – where you might not have known when you started how to really work with all of those factors of the story. I like to read, so I’m interested in working on literary adaptations, and I find that process really interesting.

KEN PLUME: It’s rather unique as a film composer, with these box sets, to have the complete score released to the audience.

SHORE: Yes.

KEN PLUME: How do you view making that complete work available to the public?

howardshore2006-12-5-02.jpgSHORE: Well, I think it was just a way for your work to come out as to what you had created for the film. And the complete recordings really have their own art to them, and they can be listened to in a way that’s never really been experienced, I think, in the films. I think that they have a way… that you can listen in a way you’ve never heard before. And I think that was really part of the reason for bringing them out – and part of it was to allow the complete work to come out so that the relationships and how the piece was created could be understood. Because I don’t know if it was quite well understood in its shorter form. The original CDs that came out were only, at the very most, a third of the entire piece. So nobody had ever really heard the entire piece except in the film. But in the film, you’re also playing against dialogue and other effects, and not always the best place to listen to music.

KEN PLUME: Do you feel, as presented in their entirety, that they tell a complete story in themselves, outside of the film?

SHORE: Yes, they do. And Doug Adams, he’s been chronicling the entire process. Doug Adams writes the liner notes for each release, and he does 50 pages for Fellowship and 50 for Two Towers and he’s now working on Return of the King. And when Return of the King is released next year, Doug Adams book notes will be a standalone book. He writes about the relationship of the piece to the thematic material, the orchestration, the choral music. He writes about it in a sway that’s very readable and accurate to the relationship of Tolkien’s story to the music, to Peter’s film.

KEN PLUME: Is there anything, in sitting down and assembling the material for this presentation, that surprised you? That came out of listening to it as a whole?

SHORE: Well, it does. I think when you put it together… you know, in actual fact, nobody’s ever listened to this music in that way. Because it was always done in smaller pieces and scenes at a time. So this is a way to really listen. The Two Towers complete recording’s a three hour piece, and when you listen to it as a three hour piece, it has its own inherent logic, music logic, to it. Having written it, I didn’t really sit down and listen to the hours of music I was creating. I think I was too busy trying to keep ahead of Peter’s film, and trying to just complete my work in each film, and each scene by scene. So I think I was like that little Hobbit, where I was carefully working at small pieces, and then of course you were creating this entire tapestry which I never really had a chance to really sit down and review. And that’s really what the recordings show you. It shows you all the complete work, and the relationship of how it all works. Which was… I guess I sowed into it, but I didn’t really have the chance to, as I say, review everything as I was doing it.

KEN PLUME: And, stepping back, knowing that next year’s going to see the release of Return of the King, do you see it as a nine hour epic?

SHORE: It’s eleven hours.

KEN PLUME: It’s going to be eleven hours total. So when are you going to perform that live?

SHORE: It’s eleven hours with good architecture. I think you can listen to it, and you’ll have a way of taking you through the story. It’s a very narrative piece. But it really has good bones, as they say.

KEN PLUME: If someone were to sit down and listen straight through to that 11 hour piece, how would you describe the journey?

SHORE: I think it would just… you know, I’ve conducted the symphony many times in different parts of the world. The symphony, Lord of the Rings Symphony, is two hours and ten minutes. And you feel like you’ve gone on a journey. It takes you through the stories in a shorter fashion. But I think you could play this long version of it, and it would have to be done over several nights to do it. But it’s a different piece, it holds a different kind of key, a different kind of knowledge to the story than the edited version.

KEN PLUME: For the three films, are there any lost pieces?

SHORE: I don’t think so. We were really diligent in reviewing everything and making sure we didn’t leave anything out. I think we may have. And if we have, we’ll put it in Doug’s book as rarities. We really tried not to miss anything. There was a lot of recording that took place over all of those years, but we’ve kept good logs and it’s just a matter of going back and archiving and retrieving everything and just making sure that everything was in the best condition.

KEN PLUME: And should, in the future… let’s say The Hobbit finally gets made – do you have a good sense, thematically, of where you would take it?

SHORE: I don’t know, but I would love to have that opportunity. We’d love to make that film. Peter & I have talked about it, and I hope it becomes a reality. I’d love to return to Middle Earth.

KEN PLUME: But knowing that story, do you feel that it would be something you would aim to make cohesive?

SHORE: I absolutely would. I think that’s the fourth part of it. That would be a wonderful way to create a new piece of this work. I think I would really relish the idea.

KEN PLUME: Is there anything at this point, any realm that you’ve left unexplored that you’d like to go into?

SHORE: I’d love to play the music to the film. I did it with Naked Lunch, with Ornette Coleman, where we did live to projection in Belfast, Ireland, with the Ulster Symphony. And then we also did it live to projection at the Barbican in London – the BBC concert orchestra – and that’s a wonderful experience.

KEN PLUME: What kind of thrill is it for you, still, to get in front of an audience and perform?

SHORE: The last conducting I did with a symphony was with the Cleveland Orchestra, and the Cleveland Orchestra is one of the great orchestras in the world. The choir is phenomenal. The concert hall in Cleveland is beautiful sounding. It’s just a thrill, really. It’s still a great thrill. I love to do it.

KEN PLUME: Let’s look back 30 years to the Howard Shore who was on Saturday Night Live

SHORE: Well, Lorne Michaels is still a very good friend of mine. I was with him last week. He just received the Governor General’s Award in Ottawa. And so I think just being so close to Lorne always still keeps me in touch with that world. And that Howard Shore from Saturday Night Live is not far away.

KEN PLUME: How would you describe the main differences between that Howard and the Howard you are today?

SHORE: (laughing) Well, I’m a little more experienced now. My interest has always been in music, so I think just… the things that I’ve learned about music I apply to my compositions. In a way, it took 40 years to write the music to Lord of the Rings, and Saturday Night Live was part of it. It was part of the training, it was part of the learning about how to write and orchestrate and conduct and record all part of it. How to work with writers and actors and directors. Saturday Night Live, you have to remember, is really live theater. Yes, it’s on television, but it’s theater. And films are very much of that world.

KEN PLUME: What would be the shortest amount of time you’ve ever had to come up with a piece?

SHORE: (laughing) Very quickly. Very quickly. I did 110 live broadcasts, and those 90 minute shows were created in a few days. Three or four days. And that was it.

KEN PLUME: It’s a stunning accomplishment.

SHORE: You have to remember, when we started doing the show in 1975, there was no show. There was no “Weekend Update.” There was no form. So it was just a group of us, sitting in a room, wondering how we fit, what we could do for 90 minutes of live television on Saturdays. Sitting there on Monday night kind of thinking, and that was kinda the process. But it was creative and it was by the seat of your pants and you learned to trust certain instincts and you seized it.

KEN PLUME: And even then you knew how to put together a band.

SHORE: (laughing)

KEN PLUME: If there anything you would tell that Howard, or anything that past-Howard would tell you or remind you of?

SHORE: Yeah. “The show must go on.”

KEN PLUME: Do you ever envision yourself doing anything like that again, or something on a smaller scale?

SHORE: Well, I’m interested in opera, and that’s taking me back to my theater roots.

KEN PLUME: Opera as far as composing something yourself?

SHORE: Yes, I’m writing a piece now for next year based on the Cronenberg movie The Fly.

KEN PLUME: Oh really?

SHORE: Yes.

KEN PLUME: Where were you looking to perform that, or perform it with?

SHORE: It’s a joint commission with L.A. Opera and the Châtelet in Paris.

KEN PLUME: I can only imagine what the piece will be like. How much of it is finished at this point?

SHORE: It’s finished now.

KEN PLUME: What point next year are you looking to perform it?

SHORE: In the Fall.

KEN PLUME: Well we’ll have to get the word out about it when it hits.

SHORE: Terrific.

KEN PLUME: I appreciate your time.

SHORE: Great talking to you…

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November 17, 2006

10 Quick Questions: Corri English – Not Just Another Pretty Face That’s Possibly, Could Be, Might Be, Going to Get Mangled by the End of UNREST

Filed under: Interviews — admin @ 8:24 pm
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“The first film to use real bodies.”

How can I or even you, as a horror movie fan, NOT just wonder what kind of depravity exists with a movie that has this kind of a tag line at the end of its trailer? It wasn’t until I really took a look at the offerings, individually, of the 8 FILMS TO DIE FOR mini-festival of sorts that are playing all over this grand land of ours that I really appreciated the chance to reach out to Corri English, star of the movie UNREST.

I know, you don’t know who she is and, more importantly, why you should read any further about some girl you don’t know but, friends, I am here on high to proclaim that Corri not only possesses the kind of spunk you need out of a woman who is more than likely going to survive the wanton horrors that no doubt are going to be inflicted on those closest to her in this film but, and some would say more importantly, she radiates a kind of sensuality tractor beam that beguiles you at first and then draws you in with her ability to be absolutely believable in the trailer even as a psychotic dead chick is trying to kill everyone in sight.

If you get the chance to see the trailer, I would highly recommend doing so. With no one you know in it, without a story written by someone without the name King or Craven attached to it and with some production values that really shine through I can honestly admit that this movie knows what it is and knows how to sell itself. The fact that you get Corri’s mammaries slung right in your face, and what a nice pink bra it is, merely adds to this film’s attraction. What’s more is that reviews of the movie itself have been quite complimentary on all levels and that says a lot in an age of disappointment after disappointment from the entries in the Masters of Horrors series.

Now, Corri has been around a very long time on the small screen with stints on Without a Trace, One Tree Hill, Joan of Arcadia, Dawson’s Creek (we’ll touch on this later), CSI: Miami and many other productions that have slowly allowed her the opportunity to ascend in her career as an actress. It’s kind of thrilling, in a sports analogy sort of way, to see what her progression has been like from rookie to seasoned pro as you look over her work. One hopes that she sees more success and I am openly grateful that she’s decided to go toe to toe with some rather absurd, yet purposely poignant, 10 Quick Questions with me. After reading her answers I am convinced that anyone who finds themselves working with Corri…better be checking their unemployment insurance. I mean, seriously, how many cancelled series can one be on before you just chalk it up to the fact that you’re the human equivalent to that Tiki idol on the Brady Bunch that damn near caused Greg to wipeout permanently on the sandy beaches of Hawaii?

This is really the first time I’ve ever consented to an email interview but, who am I kidding, after seeing the pink bra action, it was a done deal.
I also, honestly, didn’t think I see the answers to these questions come back to me.

Seriously. I didn’t. But Corri gave as much as she got and I actually learned a lot even in the span of 10 questions. UNREST is playing today, tomorrow and Sunday so do make it a point to try and see where it’s playing near you.

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CHRISTOPHER STIPP: 1) Tell me about why I need to seek out UNREST this weekend. Sell me like you want me to sign on the dotted line without first consulting with the wife and her nagging whining about why we can’t afford it.

CORRI ENGLISH: Wow, it’s that bad? Dude, you can borrow the $10.75 ““ I’ll even pitch in an extra five so you can smuggle in some burritos. And tell that bi-atch she’s not the boss of you.

The great thing about Unrest is it’s eerily real. The story hits close to home in terms of recognizing one’s own mortality. Our director was a surgeon before going into movie-making, and much of the story comes from his experience as a med student. We shot in a real, working morgue, so we’re talking some lungs in a plastic container over here, eyeballs in a jar over there, and a recently deceased brought in every couple of hours awaiting an autopsy”¦let’s just say this movie has plenty of fresh meat. This movie is NOT for vegetarians. Oh, and plus my character takes her shirt off half a dozen times or so for no good reason at all. What other movie has actors skinny-dipping in a tank of dead bodies?

STIPP: 2) The most recent subject entry on the message board for your profile on IMDB.com is entitled “Shes[sic] so hott [sic]”. Besides wondering whether this particular fan needs to pick up a Funk and Wagnalls, honestly, can good looks be a hindrance for an actress looking to broaden their range, playing parts where being “hott” would draw undue attention to itself? I mean Steve Buscemi is one ugly dude yet he has played all sorts of characters but an actress like Charlize Theron had to go to EXTREME lengths to hide her prettiness in order to play a role that wouldn’t have worked otherwise.

ENGLISH: Okay, I just had to look up what on earth Funk and Wagnalls is”¦is that bad? Am I like one of those people on Leno who doesn’t know who the vice president is? (Arnold Schwartsneger, duh!) What ever happened to good ole Webster? I don’t think it’s ever impossible to make a beautiful actress look appropriate for a role, with makeup and wardrobe anything is possible. I think it is more a matter of whether the actress is willing to go there. For Monster, Charlize was willing to truly make herself ugly, not just rub some dirt on her cheeks and pose as usual. She went to a dark, ugly place ““ her facial expressions, walk, and voice were all altered to create the character. An actor who always wants to look pretty regardless of the character will always be limited. An actor who truly wants to embody a character is virtually limitless in my opinion. And those kinds of characters – that’s the good stuff, the stuff I hope for.

As for the imdb post, I’ll forgive him for the horrible spelling since he thinks I’m hott. I’ll just assume the two t’s were meant for emphasis.

STIPP: 3) Without a Trace, Joan of Arcadia, Going to California, One Tree Hill, Dawson’s Creek, CSI: Miami. With the exception of Joan of Arcadia where you managed to land 2 episodes are you just incapable of holding a job for more than a week or is there something else afoot? Myself, I think there’s something going on here with this résumé of yours but the real question I have is what do you like about working on television productions?

ENGLISH: Okay, I’m taking back my $10.75. Actually, contrary to popular belief, I worked on a WB series called The Bedford Diaries, and we got a whole 8 episodes on the air before being cancelled. So, ha!!

Truthfully, I just enjoy working, whether it’s television or film or whatever. If I can find an interesting character to inhabit, I’m happy. Doing a series was nice because you have a sense of contentment and stability that as an actor is hard to come by. You get to work every day without worrying about what is next for a moment. I’ll be right back – I’m being called to set, see this week I’m shooting a single episode of a show that just got cancelled”¦no, seriously.

STIPP: 4) Ok, I’ll share something. Last month I had my first published piece in a magazine and it was all of 75 words. I received 30 bucks for it. It was the greatest 30 dollars I’ve ever been given, Lord knows this job doesn’t pay me in anything other than free promotional items that, if I was 12, I would probably dig, but can you try and explain what it was like to get that first paycheck for acting? Any internal sense of validation that this was what you were meant to do?

ENGLISH: Oh, so are you just incapable of holding the attention of a reader for more than 75 words or is there something else afoot? Sorry, I had to. [Ed note: SNAP, Stipp!]

In the sense that being paid makes you a professional, yes, that first paycheck definitely gave me validation. On the other hand, I’ve been doing some kind of acting work since I was a kid, so I’ve gotten more validation from being able to turn acting into a real career. My goal when I came out to California was simply to be able to support myself acting without having to get another job. I’ve been lucky enough to do that (although I always thought it would be nice to get the employee discount at Starbucks), and, well, I’m happy! I like my job! A lot of people really don’t ““ so the combination makes me feel like I’m doing what I’m supposed to be doing.

STIPP: 5) You were in “3: The Dale Earnhardt Story”. There are so many obvious jokes here that I am barely able to contain my Kentucky-mud-flap mullet from raising my commemorative plastic jug mug of Schlitz in honor of them. However, I would like to know of what stood out as the biggest difference from working on a television movie like 3 and your experience on set of a motion picture like UNREST.

ENGLISH: Do you really have a mullet? Cause if you do that’s awesome. I’m from Georgia ya know, I have a plastic jug mug of my own. It’s actually funny because when I booked the role in 3, my friends and reps out here in California were like ““ “Who is Dale Earnhardt?” but I definitely got lots of cool points from the folks back home.

Honestly, the biggest difference with the two projects you mentioned is simply that in 3 I had a small supporting role and had a very light work load, whereas for Unrest, I was in virtually ever scene so I worked long, hard hours. It was up to me to carry the movie, so the stakes were much higher ““ as an actor you really just have to lose yourself in the character and the film-making for the duration of the shoot. You get your life back once you picture wrap.

STIPP: 6) Jason Todd Ipson, the director for UNREST, seems like a guy who has an unhealthy obsession for both vampires and medically based yarns, with his films The First Vampire, The First Vampire: Don’t Fall for the Devil’s Illusions, Code and UNREST comprising a large chunk of his producing filmography. Besides the writing, what drew you into this production and, if it’s applicable, and you can feel free to be honest because we’re all friends here, was it hard for Jason to not insert a vampire somewhere into this movie?

ENGLISH: No wonder Jason kept wanting me to put those damned fangs in! It’s all becoming clear to me now”¦Actually, that second vampire movie you mentioned is just the feature length version of the short film he made while in film school. I don’t know much about Code, but he actually shot a comedy after Unrest, called Everybody Wants to be Italian. It’s about an Italian guy who can’t see his reflection. Wait a minute”¦Okay, really it was the writing that drew me to this project.

When I got the script I had just read this book called Aztec, by Gary Jennings ““ which is great, by the way ““ and here was this intelligent script dealing with these Aztec gods, it was really interesting to me. And I was also just very drawn to the character of Alison Blanchard. I love the arc of the character throughout the story. She’s this very normal, vulnerable girl who finds that she’s pretty much on her own ““ so she takes matters into her own hands and becomes this evil-spirit-booty-kicking woman by the end. I love a girl who can kick a little ass.

STIPP: 7) A few of your co-stars have also gone the television route before starring in UNREST. Is the life of a working actor, and I genuinely admire your dedication to this craft, made better when a bunch of actors like you talk about what episodes of this or that program you tried out for and may or may not have landed? Or is this something that you don’t talk about and keep to yourself, the trials and tribulations of being a part of this whirlwind of showbiz?

ENGLISH: It can definitely be a frustrating road ““ you have to have tough skin because, at least in the beginning, it is all about mostly being rejected. It is nice to have friends who can empathize, and that you can vent to. But typically I don’t like to talk much about work outside of work. In fact, that’s one of the difficulties I’ve found living in Los Angeles. Like I said ““ I’m from Georgia, there are very few actors there, so no one is asking who my agent is and if I have a demo reel when I go out for a glass of wine at night. Not that I am opposed to talking about what I do, I love what I do, but there is an element of competition inherent in any “industry” conversation in this town, and that can make it hard to make real connections with people. Living here, you can never really leave work behind for an evening.

STIPP: 8) Since this is, ostensibly, the literary equivalent of a blind date can you answer a few questions that I would ask any prospective interview subject? Splendid, let’s start the querying”¦

a)What was the last movie you saw that you would recommend?

ENGLISH: That’s easy ““ Borat. [Booyakasha. This is a girl after our own heart…]

b) What movie really resonated with you as you grew up?

Grease. Yes, the one with John Travolta and Olivia Newton John. Acting out that movie was probably my first dabbling into acting ““ and what a great message for young girls, how Sandy changed everything about herself so that Danny would like her. Powerful stuff, no?

c) Favorite musical band? (If I see Air Supply consider this interview over.)

Air Supply. Does that mean I don’t need to answer the rest of the questions?

d) Whose acting career would you like to emulate if you could?

I totally want to be Meryl Streep when I grow up. I know, I know, it sounds cliché, but she is cited so frequently as the “actress to be” for a reason ““ the woman is brilliant. She has played such a wide range of characters ““ but she always brings this amazing strength to the screen, even if she does not say a word in a scene, she’s making you feel something, evoking emotion ““ and she plays strong female characters. I wanna be just like her.

e) Most embarrassing movie you will publicly admit to liking? (Myself, I’m a huge fan of the Estevez/Sheen combo MEN AT WORK and I don’t care who knows it.)

Yeah, I have a really embarrassing one ““ From Justin to Kelly, ya know, the American Idol movie? Seriously, it’s a riot. I almost peed myself.

f) Favorite color?

Yellow

g) Were you one of those drama women in high school that not only knew they were going to be an actress but had to let everyone else know it by affecting some unholy hybrid of Eva Gardner while always speaking in a faux British accent?

Lord, no. Mine was always a faux southern drawl ala Vivien Leigh. But seriously, no way. Yuck.

g) Is your boyfriend/husband/life-partner (I’ve got to cover all the bases here) also an actor?

No, no. I think that’s dangerous.

h) Have you went to the store and bought any program you’ve been on in the form of said program’s DVD and, if you haven’t, why not? Wouldn’t it be cool just to be able and show your friends that you were on Dawson’s Creek before Katie Holmes got all sorts of crazy?

I’ve personally never done that ““ my mom takes care of that. She’s got the collection, dating all the way back to dance recitals with shiny pink unitards.

STIPP: 9) What’s next for you? There isn’t a joke here. I’m genuinely curious.

ENGLISH: My next film will be out next year – it’s called Killer Pad, a horror/comedy directed by Robert Englund. It’s a hoot ““ and I got to don prosthetics for the first time, horns, tail, hump, the whole get-up. Fun stuff.

STIPP: 10) Last Question: I’m still upset that Arrested Development was taken off the air. I know a lot of people are down on what network television is doing to our collective intelligence, evidenced by people’s embracing of a game show that doesn’t require anything of its contestants other than the ability to shout out random briefcase numbers, but what do you think is needed for smart television to thrive or do you think we’re doomed to accept Howie Mandel as our gold standard and savior? I ask because you’ve been on the frontlines of many critically acclaimed programs and, in my book, qualified to offer an opinion.

ENGLISH: I, too, am still mourning the loss of Arrested Development. A whole lot of people loved that show!! I really believe that if it had been left on the air, the audience would have continued to grow.

Honestly, I think most of the problem lies in this very example ““ shows are being yanked before they have a chance to find their audience. Look at a show like Seinfeld, which did not catch on right away ““ and look at the success it had! What’s happening in tv is similar to what’s happened in the music industry ““ labels look for instant success, then yank artists who can’t make that happen right away. So you have fans that aren’t really fans, they just liked the band with the song that was played over and over on the radio. Then they move on to the next hyped band”¦ The same is happening in television.

I truly hope audiences will tire of reality television and cheesy brainless programming ““ and I hope, in the meantime, the networks give us shows that are more cerebral ““ and leave them on the air long enough for audiences to catch on.

##

Trailer Park: Eventually It Wins Over Everyone

Filed under: Columns,Interviews,Trailer Park — admin @ 12:25 am

By Christopher Stipp

Archives? Right Here…

Before we get started, kids: Interested in winning an original, signed poster for THE FOUNTAIN by Darren Aronofsky? Tune in soon with details about how you can rock an original piece of authentic movie schwag right on your wall absolutely free of charge. Dozens will enter…only a few will win.

The first question I really wanted to ask Darren was whether or not he was afraid to die. I didn’t but I wanted to.

After you sit and open yourself up to what THE FOUNTAIN has to offer your soul, and no, this is not hyperbole, there is a sense that you’ve been shown something that hasn’t ever really been rendered or expressed in film before.

Yes, those of us who have been steeped in films can point out a few cinematic touchstones where the idea of death and its emotional connection to our collective experience as humans has been adequately presented. The basic thing of it, though, is that I can’t point out one movie that has pushed me as a viewer to accept the one truth about being a living, breathing person on this planet: I will die.

THE FOUNTAIN pushes even harder on this premise and puts forth the notion of being faced with a loved one’s death while being terrified of accepting death’s inevitability yourself. This movie posits some heavy ideas but it never once feels, and this is key, like this was a movie based on someone’s high falutin obsession to make an inaccessible piece of art; rather, this is about as straight-forward as you could ever be when it comes to making a film that feels like it was written with real heart and passion. Love just drips from every pore and frame of this film that it makes you feel that Darren, Hugh, Rachel and everyone involved in this production believed this was a movie that needed to be made.

To say that the film succeeds in easily becoming one of the most distinguished pictures to come out this year would be giving the word “understatement” not enough weight. This movie shows you what Hugh Jackman is really made of, what Rachel Weisz can really do with her abilities as an actress and that the world needs more filmmakers like Darren. The man could have, no doubt, turned out flicks that could’ve paid for a few houses in the Hollywood Hills and lived like a pimp if he would’ve just capitulated to studio pressure to just give up. To be honest, I don’t know if I would’ve had it in me to just stay true to thine self by ruminating on ways to make this movie happen but he did.

I know I could write about how thrilling it was to sit across from one of the premier, again, not hyperbole, directors of the past decade but all you really need to know is that when people asked me what it was like to talk to him my only response was that it was like reading a novel and then being able to sit with the author the next day to ask whatever you like regarding whatever you wanted.

If you want to know how great it was to work with Hugh or how awesomely sucky it was that Brad Pitt wasn’t in it or what we can expect on the DVD or any other questions regarding the technical aspects of this movie’s production, go somewhere else. Honestly, the movie rattled my emotional core and even though I wish we had more time than we did, I’m hoping this wasn’t the last time we would ever talk, I was all about trying to make a connection with this film’s story and to find out whether Americans, in general, have a hard time accepting that we’re all going to die.

If you haven’t already figured it out I am hoping this short conversation piques your interest in seeing this movie next Wednesday. Darren not only hopes you tell a friend or two or three to see it but this is one film that, if you do suggest it and the individual(s) don’t dig it, I am thinking it’s grounds for you to dispatch a legal beating on their person with a loaf of stale sourdough. Seriously.

Much thanks to everyone involved with Darren’s publicity team who helped make this 15 minutes possible.

DARREN ARONOFSKY: You work for Kevin?

CHRISTOPHER STIPP: Kinda. It’s for his website, actually. QuickStopEntertainment.com.

ARONOFSKY: He has people all over the place?

STIPP: Also, kinda. We’re like independent contractors who live all over the country and write on a multitude of things.

ARONOFSKY: Nice.

STIPP: I’ve been writing now for almost three years”¦

ARONOFSKY: Wasn’t it called View Askew or something like that?

STIPP: Poop Shoot. Movie Poop Shoot.

ARONOFSKY: Movie Poop Shoot. Right. Now it’s called Quick Stop Entertainment?

STIPP: Yup. Thankfully it was changed, just coming from my end of things, because it was really difficult”¦in fact, one story involves you.

I called, around November of last year, when you were making the rounds on CHUD, JoBlo, Ain’t It Cool, to try and be able and talk to you but after putting in the request and when they asked me what site I worked for, me saying “Movie Poop Shoot”, they essentially just laughed and said, “I don’t think so.” That was it until now.

And, speaking of which, I saw the movie last night…

ARONOFSKY: That was a fun screening.

STIPP: It was but I thought it was interesting that a movie like this, with the kind of heady subject matter, that you would target college kids.

ARONOFSKY: Well, I’ve always done college tours with my films, PI and REQUIEM, this the third time I’ve done one; I don’t know if Kevin does them but he’s done more movies than me so he’s probably bored of it.

I always get a good reaction at the colleges. To be honest”¦I didn’t know how it work either but it seems to really be working with the young crowds which is kind of cool and I think that’s because they’re more adventurous in their cinema.

STIPP: Very dense movie.

ARONOFSKY: Yeah.

STIPP: It’s a word I also saw popping up in the early reviews, I cried a little but by the end”¦It affected me on a level I didn’t think a film could. I know the germ of this came about with your own parents’ situation with cancer and so I’m wondering if this movie has helped you wrap your arms around the notion of death?

[Darren laughs]

ARONOFSKY: Not quite. I think it’s always a struggle and I think the film was kind”¦a beginning of an exploration by me to start thinking about these things or at least think about it in a more formal way.

STIPP: And has the storytelling aspect, when you went back and edited, thinking about your own life events in the past six years, changed how you wanted to tell this story?

ARONOFSKY: Yeah. Ultimately, the problem with film and why I’ve always liked the concept of being a musician, even though I am tone deaf, a musician when they’re creating an album, when they’re creating a bunch of songs, you can really write songs that are connected to an immediate moment in your life. Films, though, take so long that they really represent what you were thinking years ago. This film has been progressing and growing for all these years so it does represent a lot of my life for the last four or five years but I imagine all the new things that have sprouted up in my life will probably effect me on my next film.

STIPP: And, to touch on the concept of music, the score was really effective.

ARONOFSKY: Thank you and it was Clint Mansell again, who I worked with on PI and REQUIEM, and we brought the Kronos back because we needed some strings and they are just the best. Then we also got this rock band called Mogwai, out of Scotland, to add sort of a psychedllic rock element to it.

The score, I think, comes out a day before the movie.

STIPP: A lot of the great filmmakers like to keep things consistent with regard who they work with on their projects, again and again and again, like the Kronos Quartet, is that how you see your future”¦

ARONOFSKY: I love them. They’re just great to work with. They’re really great people, they’re totally experimental, they’re totally willing to take chances and go out on a limb and try new things. They just have an incredible spirit.

And, on top of that, they are the most ridiculous musicians you’ve ever seen as far as skill. You’re like listening to some rhythm and you’re like, “Is that a 1/16th?” and they’re, “No, it’s a 1/32.”

[Laughs]

“Huh?”

STIPP: I heard Rachel, to prepare, went and visited with people who were about to die and I’m wondering, on a personal level, has that experience still lingered with her?

ARONOFSKY: I think so. I can’t see how something like that can’t change you and I think every film changes us and everyone. I mean, they’re very intense experiences. Rachel, especially, had to go and see some heavy-duty stuff.

I know Hugh talks about in some of his interviews”¦I took him to see brain surgery. We went in and saw an actual brain surgery on an actual person. And Hugh, I think, had a conversation with the woman beforehand. During the surgery the doctors were saying that she was going to die and this was just a last hope to extend her life a little bit.

You’re sitting there”¦staring at someone’s brain as they’re pulling out pieces. It’s a very intense thing.

Some people see that all the time. These surgeons are sitting there doing a job, like anyone else would be doing, but they do it every day.

STIPP: Do you think”¦myself I have two daughters, and it wasn’t until I had them when I started to feel pings of my own mortality. I’m scared to do a lot of things and I think I have a problem with death. As you were working on this did you find that, as a society, we have a problem with death? With talking about it, accepting it?

ARONOFSKY: I think we’ve completely hidden it”¦Ignore it and face it with complete hubris even though it’s going to win. Eventually it wins over everyone.

We just completely deny it.

That was the interesting thing”¦When me and Rachel and Hugh would go to these hospices we would meet these caretakers and doctors and they would all say something astounding which was a lot of these young people when they got closer to death”¦something amazing started to happen to them; something similar [to what happens] to Izzie in the sense that they started to see something infinite in the finite reality in front of them but they had no vocabulary to talk about it. They had no way of explaining of what was going on because there’s just no education, and there’s no spiritual support structure in the west to help us with it.

So, as they’re going down this path the ironic thing is that the families, who are healthy, are so indoctrinated into western medicine and science are like, “You’ve got to fight. You’ve got to keep fighting. You’ve got to fight.”

Even when, at a certain point, there is no more of a fight. It’s over.

And that’s the line that’s really hard; it’s when it’s ok to let go because, ultimately, it IS ok to let go because eventually we’re all going to die. But a lot of these people, a lot of these families, become really really tough and what happens, the tragedy of it all, that the person who’s dying actually dies in a much more lonely place because they can’t at all communicate with their families. And THAT, to me was the tragedy. That informed the whole plot of the film.

In THE FOUNTAIN you have Izzie who is actually approaching some type of understanding and trying to reach her husband who is just doing the typical, normal response of like, “No, I’m going to solve this problem. I’m going to fix it and you’ve got to keep fighting.”

So, I think in the west right now we’re completely cut off from having any type of tool or any way of understanding that what makes us human and what makes us alive is that we will die and mortality is actually a part of our humanity”¦and that dying can actually be a part of our spiritual path.

[Darren smiles]

How about that? Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

STIPP: Who do you think has stated it best? In the past six years did you come across anything that has really connected with you?

ARONOFSKY: There was some, I can’t remember what, so many cultures have dealt with it in so many different ways, but one of my favorite was”¦and I don’t think it was Norse, I can’t remember, it was some type of northern European culture that was a warrior culture. You were judged by your dying words and how clever they were; and so, on the battlefield, you would construct, basically, a lyric that, if it was unbelievably poetic, it judged what your immortality would be. There was a whole culture based on that which I thought was great.

Ari, the other guy I wrote the story with, and I read tons of that stuff.

STIPP: I guess the last question I have is that you have a lot in your life, going forward, another life to look after as well, and are you now aware of what kind of legacy you want to leave behind you?

ARONOFSKY: Yeah. Part of that is keep trying to make good work. Keep from having to compromise because there is always pressure to compromise. But I think you just have to take it step by step”¦I’m not one of those long-term planners that can think of what I’d like in fifty years for my life to have been.

I think I’d just try to think about what I want to do next and then just get it done.

November 15, 2006

Interview: Chop Shop Entertainment

Filed under: Interviews — UncaScroogeMcD @ 3:19 am
chopshop2006-11-15-01.jpg

-by Ken Plume

chopshop2006-11-15-02.jpgIn anticipation of the DVD release of Clerks 2, we took some time to go in-depth with Zak Knutson and Joey Figueroa of Chop Shop Entertainment, the two cats responsible for the online behind-the-scenes featurettes (affectionately known as “Train Wrecks”) that documented the making of Clerks 2.

For the DVD release of Clerks 2, however, they’ve crafted a brand-new, feature-length documentary about the journey from the original Clerks to Clerks 2 titled Back To The Well. We chat about their work with Kevin Smith’s View Askewniverse, the ethos behind the “Train Wrecks” and Chop Shop Entertainment, and what it was like to document the journey back to the well…

Before we get things started, though, how about a look at the trailer for Back To The Well (there are additional clips at the end of the interview):

  • Large (560 x 420 – QuickTime – 32.4 MB)
  • Small (320 x 240 – QuickTime – 14.2 MB)
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KEN PLUME: When did you both first get involved with Kevin?

JOEY FIGUEROA: Well, there was talk of doing it long, long before we even got that on the budget to do it. That’s basically our holdout was the budget, and the okay from the studio, and Kevin and Scott (Mosier) really pushed for it. They’re really into it. More so Kevin, with the online stuff. For us, the documentary was the most important thing we really wanted to get off the ground.

ZAK KNUTSON: Ken, are you talking about when we first got the idea to do the documentary?

KEN PLUME: Even going further back than that. Respectively, when did you two first start working with Kevin?

ZAK: Ah, okay. I was a production secretary and the visual effects assistant on Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back. And I stuck around. They were kind enough to keep me employed on Jersey Girl, and I kept in touch with Kevin & Scott through emails and whatnot, and then when Jersey Girl came up I was the post-production coordinator.

JOEY: And me I came on during post-production on Jersey Girl as an office assistant. What led us to this point, I guess, was our work with (the Clerks 10th anniversary documentary) Snowball Effect at first, because we did the work with Phil Benson. Kevin was really happy about it.

KEN PLUME: Speaking of that, when did Snowball Effect begin to come together? Because obviously you two both had worked on Jersey Girl

JOEY: Well, Phil Benson – the one that directed and produced it – he had pitched it to Kevin, Kevin was all for it, and then he basically brought on Zak and myself to help out.

ZAK: Phil had told me about it one day at the office. He said, “I got this idea for this documentary,” because they’re planning on doing this Clerks 10th anniversary DVD. He told me it was originally going to be called From Jersey to Sundance. And I told him, “If you don’t do it you’re a fool, because that’s a really great story.” Because I was a fan before I even actually started to work with these guys. And I used to beat Phil over the head so hard about it that when he finally got the balls enough to actually do the documentary, he asked me to do it and he asked Joey to do it. That was towards the end of Jersey Girl, because we were in post production hell on that movie, like everybody knows. And then I went off to produce a movie with Dave Klein, and when I came back Joey and Phil had already done a lot of prep work on the documentary, and we basically did the entire thing from start to finish in about four months.

KEN PLUME: Which, considering how many things needed to be pulled together for that documentary, is quite an accomplishment.

ZAK: It was a huge process, ’cause that documentary was basically done by four guys. It was done by Phil Benson, Rich Fox – the guy who actually cut the documentary – and then Joey and myself.

JOEY: All the photography we did was in a span of only three weeks.

ZAK: Yeah. We interviewed everybody in three weeks, and we went from L.A. to Washington to New Jersey to New York and then back to L.A. to finish up interviews.

chopshop2006-11-15-03.jpg

KEN PLUME: So, for each of you respectively, what was the biggest learning curve in diving in and doing something like that?

JOEY: Just the whole process of putting something together from nothing, you know? You’ve got your basic story, and you just get the gist of what it takes to create something when it’s not always right there in your face… Without fabricating shit, is what I’m saying.

ZAK: Myself, I basically fell in love with the documentary format. I’d never been a documentary guy, and that one really taught me what goes into it and how it’s filmmaking, but it’s kind of the exact opposite of when you go to a movie. When you’re doing a documentary you kind of have an idea of what the story’s gonna be, but you kind of create it on the fly in post-production, because that’s when you find your stories in the little things that people tell. It’s not written down in a script. But since then I’ve become a huge, huge documentary fan. I can’t get enough. That’s all I have on my NetFlix.

KEN PLUME: When you talk about finding the story in editing, how different was the found story than what you originally set out to tell, and the original concept of Snowball was?

JOEY: That would be more of a question for Phil. I don’t want to speak for him, but I think what he had in mind was basically telling the story of Kevin making his movie on a shoestring budget, and it selling to Mirimax at Sundance. That was his basic idea, and the whole journey from… remember, it was originally going to be titled From Jersey to Sundance. And through that, and interviewing all the people, you got a chance to get the insight into all these little characters that were in that movie and what their original characters were supposed to be, and what not. And you get all these little stories. One that was really interesting with us was the Ernie O’Donnell was originally supposed to play Dante, and basically couldn’t learn his lines, so he essentially got demoted to playing Rick Derris. You know, so little things like that just come up through all the interviews, and you get a chance to put them all out there, which was kind of cool.

ZAK: Plus the black and white of the had already been out there for 10 years, and Kevin had told the story so much. But there were these other little stories that we kinda found out along the way, like how important the Ernie aspect was to how the film came out. And Ed Hapstack. Without Ed Hapstack, they wouldn’t have had things like lights, because he built them – and how he built them… all that kinda stuff. And then just the things with Jay (Mewes). Like, I didn’t know Jay was a roofer. And I didn’t know that when the movie came out, Jay was a roofer. Just these little things, and how the relationships were and how instrumental Bryan Johnson was in the actual story of Clerks.

JOEY: Little things like Kevin not even liking Jay when they used to hang out. He was somebody that he didn’t want around, and he just kinda grew on him – to the point where, obviously, today they’re family. They’re like brothers. More like son and father, in a way. It’s kinda cool.

ZAK: It’s almost kinda like a Batman: Year One story, where you get to learn where all the different characters came from… How Gordon and Batman and Alfred and al these guys just tied together. That was kinda what doing Snowball Effect was like for us.

JOEY: And also in the process, for me anyways, I got the experience of kinda knowing Kevin even more, his whole life, and his whole story. His whole background and his home town, and talking to his mother and his friends, and just everybody back home. You got a sense of who he was as a kid, and it was almost like he was destined to be who he was today. I mean, the guy was writing as a child, and he had people listening. It was kinda cool. It made me feel like I got to know him better as a person.

chopshop2006-11-15-04.jpgKEN PLUME: And you also were much closer to when there were still some raw nerves about Clerks in evidence, particularly with Jeff, and you got a much clearer picture of clarifying exactly what went down post-Clerks release…

ZAK: Well, there was a point when we were doing the DVDs that Jeff didn’t want to have anything to do with it. Jeff wanted to get away from Clerks. He wanted to get away from being Randal, and when we called him up to actually do the documentary, he kinda expressed that he wasn’t that interested in doing it. And Kevin had to call him up and say, “Look, doing this thing is kinda pointless if we don’t have you. It’s like doing Indiana Jones without Indy.

JOEY: Actually, Jeff was one of our last interviews on Snowball Effect. I mean, he really held out to the end. We interviewed him here at the office toward the tail end of the shoot, and it turned out that he kinda made a turnaround. Almost like on Clerks 2. It just took him a little while to get greased up, then he was all for it.

KEN PLUME: So you actually had to grease him then.

JOEY: Oh sure.

ZAK: Oh yeah. In a very sexy way.

KEN PLUME: Now I know what all the drums were that I saw at the office.

ZAK: (laughing) Exactly.

JOEY: There’s lubricant here just on standby, dude, like in a big fucking Crisco jar.

KEN PLUME: Well, I believe you can buy it through the Stash, can’t you?

ZAK: Yes, and it’s called “Frisco” because Crisco would sue us for copyright.

KEN PLUME: I thought it was like Mooby’s sauce or something…

ZAK: There you go.

KEN PLUME: Coming off of Snowball Effect, were things kind of nebulous as to what your roles would be after that documentary and Jersey Girl were wrapped?

ZAK: Well, one thing that Snowball did for us was that when we were wrapping up Snowball Effect, Kevin was big on Green Hornet, and he felt that we did such a good job on Snowball and Jersey Girl that he put us in the budget to make sure that we would be able to go over to Prague to film Green Hornet. Joe and I were kinda under the thing of, when we’re going over… we’re basically going over to Prague for a year. Let’s do something else besides what our jobs are – let’s try to forward ourselves somewhat, career-wise. So we had come up with the idea of doing these things for the internet, and kinda showing people – because Kevin was really big on the internet, and always has been, but we wanted to film some stuff and put it up on the web to kinda keep the fans informed and entertained and give us something to do besides either paperwork or running around Prague, or something like that. We wanted to do something as filmmakers ourselves, so we had the idea of doing kinda what we did on Clerks 2 on Green Hornet. And then Green Hornet fell out, and then Fletch came up. Fletch fell out, and then when Clerks 2 came around, we kinda looked at each other and went, “This is almost too perfect to do it. We gotta pitch this to Scott & Kevin, and they’re gonna have to go for it.”

JOEY: Well, pretty much it’s that whatever project was going to get greenlit next, we were gonna make the same pitch. We wanted these internet diaries, we want to shoot a documentary, and basically just roll footage from beginning to end. That was our pitch for any of the movies. It turned out to be Clerks 2, which was fucking awesome because the experience was pretty amazing. It was like hanging out and goofing off with your friends. That’s basically what it turned out to be in the end.

ZAK: But the internet diaries were gonna be nothing like they ended up being in Clerks 2. I was thinking, like, once every couple weeks putting something up with Kevin and Scott, and actually showing some stuff like the “Black Beauty” and all that kinda stuff. We had no idea the internet stuff was gonna explode and become as big as it actually did on Clerks 2.

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KEN PLUME: So when you take that pitch in for what you two wanted to do with the internet featurettes, what were Kevin & Scott’s reactions?

JOEY: Well, you know, Kevin and Scott were all for it. They were all for it. The problem was more so the studio giving us the budget. Kevin was just like – at first he told us, “That sounds great, you guys do whatever you want.” We were just basically waiting on the budget. We actually started shooting and rolling footage prior to us even getting greenlit, just so we could have stuff in the can already, just in case. And it turned out that we did get the budget, and once we started doing the internet stuff, Kevin basically said “You guys can do whatever you want”… but, of course, later on he’s like, “Well, we don’t want to give away certain spoilers,” so he had to basically clear every Train Wreck that went up. They went through him first to make sure that “This is gonna be a spoiler, this is okay….” But other than that, he let us basically do whatever the hell we wanted, which was cool.

ZAK: Yeah, Kevin & Scott were for it in a big, bad way. We first brought it up to Scott, and Scott was like, “That’s a great idea. Follow up on it. Write some stuff up, do a pitch, do a budget, do all that kinda stuff.” And then when we took it to Kevin. Kevin, I think, got halfway through the pitch, and he was just like, “This is it, this is great. Let’s do it, pitch it, pitch it, pitch it.” So at that point we took it to the studio, which was basically Shannon McIntosh. And the weird thing was that, at the time – at the time, this was gonna be a Miramax thing, when we were going through this, and the Weinstein’s were splitting from Miramax, and they were forming The Weinstein Company. So we got caught into this limbo of The Weinstein Company basically not having any money to do it. And we wanted to do it, The Weinstein Company wanted to do it, but they didn’t have the cash flow at the time. So we basically had to wait until about two weeks before the actual movie started to know we could do it. Shannon McIntosh loved the idea, and she approved it and she ran with it, and she was kinda the one person at the studio who really, really kinda had our back through the entire thing.

KEN PLUME: Was there any real concern that it might all fall apart and you might not get the approval?

JOEY: Every day.

ZAK: Oh, we went to Vegas… (laughing) We went to Vegas as kind of a “feel bad for ourselves” trip, “Let’s go make ourselves feel better, let’s go get drunk and gamble.”

JOEY: Actually, that weekend, Scott had told us it’s about 99% dead in the water. Then he called…

ZAK: Five hours later.

JOEY: … five hours later, while we were in Vegas, he goes, “Well, hold on, it’s not dead yet.” And then that’s all he said. And then he calls back and says, “You guys got it.”

ZAK: That was all… in the period of five hours it went from “It’s dead” to “Harvey’s looking at it” to “Shannon pushed it through Harvey and it’s good, you’re gold, you got it.”

KEN PLUME: So how well did you do in Vegas during that trip?

JOEY: It didn’t really matter at that point.

ZAK: I think we won, didn’t we?

JOEY: I won some money the first night, and then I figured, “Fuck it, we’re gonna get paid now,” so I went and blew it all.

KEN PLUME: Boy, that’s a common story in Hollywood…

JOEY: We did pretty good in Vegas except for the last day. As usual. Vegas always wins. But we had a good time. It made the trip that much better knowing that when we got home, we basically had a job.

KEN PLUME: Going in, was there anything besides spoilers that was off limits?

JOEY: Um, yes. For a while, in the very beginning, Kevin wanted to hold out the fact that it was taking place at Mooby’s. So if you notice on some of the photos we put up, we turned them black & white just because the obvious purple & yellow colors would give that away. And being that it was at a location, not in a studio, he wanted to put it out that, “Okay, it’s gonna be taking place at a Mooby’s,” but then holding on to anything like the Quick Stop being on fire. We held onto that forever. Besides that, basically nothing was off limits as far as shooting, but everything had to be cleared with Kevin as far as what was going to be thrown out there on the internet.

ZAK: Kevin watched every single Train Wreck before it went up, and every once in a while would have an issue with, “You know what, there’s some purple & yellow in the background,” or “We don’t want to show this,” or something like that he would pop up, but that happened very rarely.

KEN PLUME: Once you were on the set – because the initial Train Wrecks were basically pre-production material…

ZAK: Yep.

KEN PLUME: When you were actually on the set and dealing then with talent and crew… I mean, it’s well known that Dave Klein wasn’t exactly happy to be on camera.

ZAK: Which, by the way, is a total, total act. We had this planned out. We were talking to Dave about it. I mean, Dave doesn’t like being interviewed on camera to start off with, but he doesn’t really mind it because he knows… I’ve worked with Dave doing three different movies, but Dave was like, “What if I’m just the angry guy? That’ll be my character. I’ll just be the pissed off guy. The guy who doesn’t want to be…” and it turns… as soon as that camera turned off or as soon as I cut it, we were laughing our asses off.

KEN PLUME: He did it so well.

JOEY: It was all fun and games, man, he was just fuckin’ around and fuckin’ around. Half the time he’d slap the cameras because we were asking him to.

KEN PLUME: What’s great is he was like this brilliant, angry combination of Moby, Charlie Brown & Phil Collins…

ZAK: Totally!

JOEY: More like Charlie Brown.

KEN PLUME: You can tell him I said that, too.

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ZAK: Dave was always my cutaway guy. If I needed to cut away out of something, if I needed to cut away, “I need footage of Dave.” “Dave, I need footage. You’ve got to hit the camera. You’ve got to do something. Come on Dave, do something.” And he’d usually act pissed off or whatever, and I always had a cut away point to get into something or to get out of it.

JOEY: You know, at first a few people were a little standoffish about the cameras being there the whole time, but during the preproduction meeting, all the heads were there and they’re like, “Look, these two guys are gonna be on set every single day with cameras filming all the behind-the-scenes stuff, so you’re basically going to have to get used to it.” And there were a few people that were kinda standoffish, but pretty much, like, after the first week on set, everybody warmed up to it, and everybody wanted to be on camera as opposed to not being on camera.

KEN PLUME: So you had to start fending people off…

ZAK: Pretty much.

JOEY: And everybody was like, “Well, how come you haven’t talked to me yet, and bla blah blah blah.” It became one of those things where everybody wanted to have a little piece of their internet fame, I guess.

ZAK: Yeah, because really the only person to have done this kind of thing before this was (Peter) Jackson on King Kong, and no one really knew what to expect. They were afraid we were going to make them to look like assholes, or that they didn’t know what their jobs were, or something like that, or we were gonna make fun of them. Kinda like what Project Greenlight did. Because Project Greenlight has got this thing ingrained in people’s heads to where movies are always a huge pain in the ass and no one has fun and everybody’s fighting with each other. But that’s their TV show. They create that for the TV show. But with Kevin’s movies, that was one of our goals with the Train Wrecks, mainly, was to show people what it was like to work on a View Askew movie. Because after every movie that Kevin and Scott do, everyone comes up to them afterwards and says, “This was the best experience I’ve ever had. And if you guys ever do anything, give me a call. I’ll leave what I’m doing just to come work with you guys.” And I only know of maybe one or two other directors, like Clint Eastwood, who actually have that kind of relationship with their crew. Where they can be working on a series, and all of a sudden Clint calls and they go, “I gotta leave ’cause Clint called.” Because it’s such a great experience, and that’s what working on a View Askew movie is like. I’d say there was probably three days on set that maybe people… and it was usually with Kevin, and it was basically when Kevin was up all night editing – and when Kevin’s up all night, and he hasn’t had any food, he gets kinda cranky. But even when he’s cranky it’s still pretty goddamn good. So out of two months of shooting, it was probably one of the best experiences I’ve had, of being on a set. Just seeing everybody work, it was probably one of the best experiences I’ve ever seen.

KEN PLUME: Obviously, when you have the camera there and you’re shooting people doing their jobs, or people having moments, is there anything that you felt was an awkward moment?

ZAK: There was probably three or four times where Kevin said to turn off the camera. But it was never out of like “He’s talking to an actor.” It was never anything like that. It was usually because we had the camera in his face all day long and he was beat tired and he’s like, “Can we just turn this thing off now? Aren’t we done?” Like I said, out of 12 months of shooting, he only did that that a few times, and that’s pretty great. But there was never… it’s kinda the surprising thing when people watch stuff, there was never any high tension point. I mean, I was surprised at how great the actors were. Because usually actors are a little stand-offish when they stick that camera in, because the lines aren’t written for them or anything like that.

JOEY: But Rosario (Dawson)…

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ZAK: Rosario had no problems whatsoever. Rosario was like, “Oh, you guys are doing that?” And she jumps right in front of the camera. And Jay was kind of the saving grace. Jay loved that camera. Without Jay we wouldn’t have half the Train Wrecks we did. And you know, Brian and Jeff, and just everybody, was just outstanding.

KEN PLUME: So who was the biggest surprise and turned into the biggest camera whore?

JOEY: I would say Jay was one of them, and Rosario was another. Them two, they were pretty neck-and-neck as far as really loving the camera and giving you little gold nuggets to paste together.

ZAK: Panasonic provided us with all the cameras, and they gave us two hand held cameras because we wanted some for the actors. ‘Cause our original thing was we were gonna give Kevin and Scott these little handheld cameras so that they could record their thoughts throughout the entire day. But when they’re making a movie, they don’t exactly have time to sit there and go, “Okay, I’m gonna turn on my camera and talk for five minutes now.” So what we did was we started passing the cameras around. Actually, it was one of the cameras, because Jay grabbed one camera and he didn’t let it go for the entire shoot. As a matter of fact, I think he still has the fucker. And Jay would just go around and shoot shit. And at the end of the day he’s like, “You got another tape? You got another battery? You got another tape? You got another battery?”

JOEY: I mean, we’ve got footage of Jay waking up in the morning, and recording himself taking a piss for no reason at all but he’s recording stuff.

KEN PLUME: For posterity.

JOEY: Yeah, sure.

ZAK: And like I say, about 80% of it was useless. But that 20% that he gave us, that you ended up seeing, that was totally worth it.

JOEY: Trevor (Fehrman) also loved that camera. He kinda got attached to it, also. He didn’t want to give it away. And that guy would shoot everything and anything that would get in front of that camera. I mean, he loved it.

ZAK: He’s a natural ham.

JOEY: Totally.

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KEN PLUME: The biggest misconception people might have about the documentary, compared to the Train Wrecks, is that the documentary is just a duplicate of what they saw in the Wrecks…

JOEY: Well, yeah. Everybody, just from reading stuff online and on the message boards and stuff, had the inclination that it was gonna be just a bunch of Train Wrecks pasted together. And we kinda let that fly. We’re like, “That’s cool that they’re gonna think that, because hopefully it’s gonna be a nice surprise when they see it’s something totally different.” We wanted to do something a little more in depth. Because if it was just gonna be pasted together Train Wrecks, why not just watch all the Train Wrecks back-to-back?

ZAK: We really wanted to give them… Joe and I were kinda there to see all this stuff that we put in the documentary. Even when we weren’t doing the documentary. Like, we start out basically with the end of Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back. We go into Jersey Girl. We go into Green Hornet. Because Clerks 2 was kinda being bounced around throughout that entire time. So we kinda wanted to say, “Look, this is when it really started to roll.” Because at one point Kevin closed the book on the View Askewniverse. Now he’s going back into it. And after working with these guys for the last five years, there was a lot of story there to be told, that we just didn’t want to deal with Train Wrecks. We wanted to actually get in there and do some stuff. Like the fact that Scott left. Scott was really having issues with being a producer, and there were other things in his life that he wanted to do, and it’s the exact opposite of Kevin. You know Kevin – that’s all he wanted to do, is make movies and write. So there was all this stuff in there that we really wanted to get into and show, and kinda show the relationship between Kevin & Scott, because Kevin takes a lot of the spotlight, but Scott’s really the one who helps push Kevin, and when Kevin is on the fence about a joke or on the fence about a story or something like that, Scott’s the one that he goes to. Scott is kinda the unsung creative partner in the entire thing.

JOEY: And it’s also just trying to answer some questions that people kept asking, and it’s like, “Look, let’s just put it out there, these questions are gonna get answered, and leave it at that.” The whole Green Hornet thing, everybody had their own answer to why didn’t Kevin do this movie. And they probably still will doubt him, but like he says in the documentary, “This is why I did not make this movie,” and there’s a couple reasons that led up to him deciding not to do Green Hornet. The so-called lack of success of Jersey Girl – how much of that influenced making something on a smaller level? It had a lot to do with it. And we try to touch on all those bases. All these people asking these questions on the internet. We figure, like, “Fuck it, man, let’s try to answer these, and then we can basically just put it to rest.” Or we can try.

ZAK: Yeah, and one of our big things was, during the interview process, we didn’t want Kevin to give his standard interview answers – kinda like he does at cons – about Green Hornet, where he “would just have guys standing around the ‘Black Beauty’ talking about blow jobs.” We wanted the actual, real answers, the ones that we knew. And if we could get those out there to people who don’t know those answers. They know the ones that he gives at Comic-Con or the ones that he gives during his Q&As. If we could get the real answers… that’s one of the things that actually surprised Kevin when he watched the doc for the first time – he wasn’t used to watching himself not making jokes, and being totally serious. Because you’re used to seeing the stuff with the Evening with Kevin Smith, and stuff like that. Whereas on this one, he’s like, “I’m not used to watching myself being so goddamn serious.” And it kinda took him back a bit because he really gave us some great answers. He was totally open.

JOEY: There were a few times where it actually took us a few interviews to get the one answer that we really wanted, because he’d give us an answer and we’re like, “Well, that’s kinda like a pretty generic answer,” and I don’t think he really wanted to talk about it, because there was a couple of times where he’d tell us, “What does that have to do with anything?” And we’re like, “Well, we’re just trying to get to this point of why – why you actually came to the point of finally wanting to do Clerks 2,” because that’s ultimately the whole first reel of the story. And it took him a little while to warm up to that, because I think he didn’t want to rehash ant Jersey Girl shit with J-Lo and Ben (Affleck). And that whole Green Hornet thing he really didn’t want to talk about it. But then after the series of interviews, he finally decided, or finally figured out, like, “Wow, this is part of the story.” So he was real honest with his answers and it took a little while, a few interviews, before he finally warmed up to the fact that, “Hey, fuck it. Let me just put it out there, and this is what it is.”

ZAK: The lack of box office with Jersey Girl, and pulling out of Green Hornet, those things had to do with making Clerks 2. Those were reasons why he made Clerks 2, and that’s one of the things we wanted to answer with the doc, and we finally got around to it. And I think he’s real pleased that he actually can put out those answers and people can know.

KEN PLUME: Was there anything that was completely off limits, that people just didn’t really want to talk about, period?

JOEY: I think there was only one thing that he didn’t really care to talk about – and it wasn’t really big on our storytelling, anyway – and that was the Fletch thing. I think because it was such a short time where they actually considered getting it off the ground. So he’s like, “Meh, I don’t really want to get into that because I’ve told that a million times and it’s gonna be the same thing.” And we agreed. We’re like, “Meh, it’s not really something we really cared about covering anyway.” We were more interested in the whole Jersey Girl/Green Hornet connection, because it was like, everybody was up his ass about turning down an 80 million dollar budget movie. You know, it’s like, “Why, why, why?” And really, Fletch didn’t have anything to do with it. That’s the only time he really said, “I don’t want to talk about this,” was when we brought up Fletch.

ZAK: And plus Fletch, in the grand scheme of things – out of the five years that we basically cover, Fletch was about a month.

JOEY: Yeah.

ZAK: Fletch was about a month. It was towards the end of Jersey Girl. It showed up. It got really hot. And then he just went, “Nah, I don’t want to do it.” It was basically that quick. So when you’re going through the grand scheme of things it’s like, “Do we really want to take this much time out of 90 minutes to focus on something that really only lasted a month, and didn’t have that much to do with Clerks 2?”

JOEY: But for the most part, nobody gave us an off-limits – “That’s off-limits to talk about.” They pretty much answered everything that we asked. Every question that we asked pretty much got answered throughout the interview.

KEN PLUME: I thought that in Jeff’s answers, that he seemed like he really enjoyed the ability to be fully candid.

JOEY: You know, the guy was so honest and didn’t hold back at all. It actually surprised us. He put shit out there and said shit that surprised us. The big thing was that, “Hey, I had no interest in making this movie. I didn’t want to do it for these reasons.” And along with him just being honest about how he felt about the first Clerks, as opposed to this one – even when it got into production, and not wanting to be there on set, and it taking a few moments of him seeing that it’s gonna possibly be a pretty fuckin’ good movie. Or it was just looking good. He was pleased with what he saw, that he kinda, like, became that springboard, that cheerleader, for the rest of the way. But throughout the whole process, Jeff was one of the guys that I think we thank a lot for being so honest and fucking just open, and he made himself available to whatever when we needed him for an interview. He was fucking cool, man. Cool guy.

ZAK: Yeah, Jeff… there are two interviews that people gave that we would not have been able to get as good a documentary as without those interviews. One was Jeff Anderson, for the reasons that Joe said, and the other one was Jen Smith, Kevin’s wife. She was our last interview, and we got that interview about two days before it was zero hour for me actually putting her in the documentary. Because the documentary was pretty much cut, but I needed Jen to put in there to hit a few certain things. And with that little amount of time, it was gonna be real iffy on how the interview went. And Jen came in, and she gave a personal perspective to Kevin, and making the movie, and what it was kinda like at home versus being a filmmaker and doing all that kinda stuff. Kevin gives that, but then to do that, you have to spend all this time away from home, and away from your family, and Jen gave really, really good insight into what it’s like to be married to a guy who all of a sudden, a year of his life is going to be given up to this movie. And she gave just an outstanding interview, and it was one of those things where, after the interview’s done, Joe and I looked at each other and went, “This is amazing.” Like, “This is really, really, really great stuff.”

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JOEY: I think if it wasn’t for her interview, that whole Cannes section… who knows how it could have ended up. But she really set it off, man. The way she narrated that story, it made it so much easier to cut. She’s telling a story as we’re watching it, and if it wasn’t for that interview, I really don’t know how that would have turned out, that last section. Because she said it so perfectly. It was so, like…

ZAK: It was awesome. And the Cannes portion of the documentary is something that I don’t think anybody really knows about. I don’t think anybody knows as far as the fans or anybody who kinda caught onto the fact that Clerks got an eight minute standing ovation at Cannes. When Cannes got accepted, we almost didn’t get in. We got in at the last, last, last moment. And then when it got in, everybody felt like it was just a political move… Harvey did some wrangling, got it in there, and the festival didn’t even want it there. It was more like, “Alright, we’ll put you in it as a favor to Harvey Weinstein.” And those guys had been over there with Dogma and Clerks before then, and they had really good experiences. So when they got over there, and we’re sitting there with them, it was kinda like, “Whatever, let’s just get this thing over with. You know, this is gonna be bad. They’re gonna hate the movie. The festival doesn’t want us here, the people don’t want us here.” And then all of a sudden it got this amazing reaction. Like, to be in that theater for the eight minute standing ovation, and to film these guys, and to catch it and know everything that they’ve gone up to… the fact that six hours before then, they all just wanted to get on a plane and go home because they thought it was gonna go terribly bad…

JOEY: It was kinda fun for us, because we were stoked. We had never been there. We’re like, “Fuck yeah, this is hot, we’re in fucking Cannes,” you know, and having a good time, and Kevin’s like, “Meh, whatever.”

ZAK: I think Scott got more enjoyment out of watching Joey and I. Because we were like two kids going to…

JOEY: Chuck E Cheese or some shit.

ZAK: Yeah, like, for the very first time. And Scott’s like, “I’ve been here before, but to watch you guys, and you guys are making a movie, and you guys are here for the first time in the south of France during the world’s more prestigious film festival and all that shit…” Scott kind of enjoyed watching us throughout the entire thing.

KEN PLUME: So, in other words, Scott could have made a documentary about the two of you at Cannes.

JOEY: The publicist that was assigned to us basically gave us a VIP pass type all access thing, but they only agreed to let us on the carpet with the rest of the photographers – the cameras on the carpet and whatnot – but we really wanted to film inside the theater, and she’s like, “They’re not allowing anybody inside the theater. They never do allow video cameras inside the theater. But go ahead and do it until they tell you not to. Just do whatever you want, and if they give you a problem, they’ll come see me, and they’ll just ask you to leave.”

ZAK: She was totally on our side. It was like a guerilla filmmaker. It was fuckin’ outstanding.

JOEY: Which made it really cool because when the movie was over, and they started clapping, Kevin didn’t even realize we were in there filming. I jumped on the stage and was shooting from one angle, and Zak was shooting from the back angle, and we’re covering this whole moment, and then Jen looks over the stage and sees me and they start waving, and then Kevin looks over and he’s like, “Holy shit! They’re filming this!” And it was like, “They caught this moment on tape,” which was awesome, and he didn’t even expect this… we didn’t expect to be in there. Which made it like… hey, you can go back home and tell everybody you got an eight minute standing, and they’ll be like, “yeah yeah yeah.” But now we got the fuckin’ proof to back it up. You know what I mean? It was a really cool moment.

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KEN PLUME: What I found equally as fascinating – and I could tell you did as well, while filming it – was the look on Harvey Weinstein’s face.

JOEY: That look on Harvey’s face said it all. It just looked like… he was just kinda like, “wow.” You know?

ZAK: I didn’t even know he was there until I started to cut the footage together, ’cause Joey told me. I actually cut some footage while we were in Cannes. We would shoot all day then at night we’d go back to the hotel room and I would edit. And Joe was like, “Did you get the footage of Harvey?” I’m like, “What the hell are you talking about?” “Dude, fuckin’ Harvey was sitting right there with the biggest smile on his face, and he was a cheerleader in the whole thing and I got it.” All of a sudden I start going through the footage and fuckin’ A, there’s Harvey right behind Rosario. It so fuckin’ great to get that son of a bitch there.

JOEY: Kevin actually said that he wanted to go outside and smoke. You can see him reach for his smokes and wanting to go out, and Harvey was like, “Don’t move.”

ZAK: “Enjoy this. Don’t move. Enjoy this.”

JOEY: It was a pretty surreal moment and it was cool and we’re glad we got it. And that moment right there was worth the whole trip. Everything else was just kinda like gravy on top of the fucking potatoes, you know?

ZAK: Totally.

JOEY: That moment right there was the whole trip.

KEN PLUME: The two of you having been there… five years of history, from Jersey Girl through Fletch and Green Hornet and Clerks 2… Was there any moment in doing the shooting for the documentary that completely caught you off guard? That was a complete surprise to you? Something you learned that you had no idea actually happened during that period when you were pretty much front seat to most of this stuff…

JOEY: I don’t know, give me a moment to think…

ZAK: I don’t know if there was a moment that totally caught me off guard. I had kind of a moment of realization of how special this moment is, but it’s not on tape. It was a total personal moment between all of us. It was directly after the movie screened at Cannes. We had the eight minute standing ovation. Anything else we shot was kinda pointless. We all went back to the Hotel Martinez. The cast, everybody, and there was champagne. Kevin’s not a drinker. Kevin doesn’t drink. And Kevin was a bit tipsy from the champagne. Everybody was hugging each other and all that kinda stuff. There was one moment I wish I’d got on tape, which we kinda cover in Snowball Effect – in Snowball Effect, when Kevin and Scott were at Cannes for Clerks, they were on a boat with Simon Le Bon and they said they kinda had this moment where, “Hey, we’re on a boat in the middle of the South of France with the lead singer of Duran Duran. How fuckin’ surreal is this shit?” Well, when we got back to the Hotel Martinez, everybody’s drinking champagne, we got this eight minute standing ovation, it’s been this long thing, it’s fuckin’ amazing. All of a sudden somebody goes, “Hey, look who’s over there. Look who’s sitting down.” And they go, “Who?” “It’s fuckin’ Simon Le Bon.” We’re like, “Fuck! Somebody get a goddamn camera! Where’s the fuckin’ camera?” We wanted to get a still camera, but by the time we got a still camera, he left. So it was like, “Ah, fuck.” That was the one thing we missed.

KEN PLUME: Maybe there’s not a real Simon Le Bon?

JOEY: There’s a series of clones running around Europe!

ZAK: Like, “There’s Kevin & Scott. Get the Simon clone.”

KEN PLUME: Maybe Simon’s like The Mothman.

ZAK: Totally. Totally! But that was one of those moments where it was just like… it was almost kinda like this… I mean, for Joe & I, after going through Snowball Effect, and then going through that, it was kinda like this thing had come full circle at that point.

JOEY: What I think you were trying to ask is have we learned anything or found anything new storywise that we didn’t know about Kevin, Scott, or any of View Askew, the company… anything. To answer that question, I would say just the fact that you just… it’s not like you learn something new, it’s like you just kinda bring it home that these guys are fucking… cool. You know what I mean? It’s hard to explain. It’s like hanging out with your friends. And you just kinda, like… every moment, it’s almost like… you feel like it’s thievery. It’s like, “We’re getting paid to fucking do this? Are you kiddin’ me?” You know? It almost makes you wonder like, “What does a person with a real job do?”

ZAK: And plus it’s almost like you get to document your friends on this journey. Basically we pick up with Scott, a documentary of him basically wanting to leave, like I said before. And then now, after going through Clerks 2, Scott’s got this thing to where he’s ready to make another movie. Scott kinda found…

JOEY: He said it recharged his batteries. He got back to that moment of the original Clerks where there’s it’s just a few guys, some buddies making a fuckin’ movie for not that much money. And that’s kinda like the feeling that everybody got after making this movie.

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ZAK: And it seems that for Scott & Kevin, Clerks 2 helped them find the place where they are most comfortable and can be the most creative. With smaller budgets, with smaller crews. It’s more personal. They can tell more personal stories and they don’t have to worry about shit they had to worry about on Jersey Girl, or were going to worry about on Green Hornet. They know it’s like, “Look, this is what we like to do, this is what we want to do, this is what we’re fuckin’ good at. We can still take chances. And it’s fun again.” Which is what it wasn’t since Jersey Girl. They know what they want to do, and they know how to do it, and they can have fun with it. And for them, and them being our friends, it’s kinda like – they’re at a place… and us as friends looking at them, it’s like we’re extremely happy, number one, for them, but number two that we were actually able to capture that for some of the fans.

KEN PLUME: Tell me a little bit about Chop Shop Entertainment…

JOEY: Chop Shop basically was a company that we started just recently, and it was specifically started for this project. That’s because when we got our budget, it was easier for The Weinstein Company just to cut us a check and not deal with us until we’re done, basically.

ZAK: As actual employees.

JOEY: As actual employees instead of like, you know, us having to ask them “we need to buy this, we need to rent this.” And usually it’s like, okay, then we gotta do the invoices and they gotta go through this chain of paperwork, and then we get the money, and then blah blah blah. It’s really easy for them just to say, “Look, set up a company, we’ll cut you a check, do your fuckin’ documentary.” That’s how we got started, as far as like Chop Shop goes. Now, Chop Shop is something we’re trying to build into something a little larger, doing the same shit.

ZAK: Yeah. Basically what our things was, like Joe said, Chop Shop started off… we didn’t have a five year business plan. We didn’t have an idea. Joe and I just want to make movies and do our own thing and all that kinda stuff, and it presented itself to where it’s like, well, do it now, because now is when you have everything. And the great thing about The Weinstein Company, like Joe said, they basically wrote us a check and said go make your movie. There was nothing from the studio that said, “You know, we have to watch footage every couple weeks, we have to see what you guys are doing.” Now, granted, because of the Train Wrecks they knew what we were doing and they knew we weren’t just throwing the money away on coke and whores.

JOEY: Just some of it.

ZAK: Yeah, just a little bit. But the best thing about it was is that through this process, Joe and I have formed Chop Shop now, and what we want to do is what we did for Kevin and Scott – we want to talk to other filmmakers and to other studios. Because not only can we do these things for the internet, to get things out for fans – not necessarily just like Train Wrecks – but we’d like to do more informational ones and more technical ones and shit like that. But also to do the documentaries, so they chopshop2006-11-15-12.jpghave things to put on the internet as promotion to get fans excited about, but also to get new fans to come to the sites and go, “I wanna go see that movie.” And then when the DVDs come out, they then can have a feature length documentary, or a series of documentary shorts, that are more in-depth, that fans haven’t seen before, so that buying that DVD – which is now the studio’s number one priority money maker… studios make more money on DVDs than they do with the feature film release. So it’s the number one cash cow for those guys. They always want to try to make ’em better – or at least most studios do. So if we can do that; do what we want to do, help out the filmmaker, help out the studio, and then make some money at the same time, it would be outstanding. King Kong with Peter Jackson, those guys did an outstanding job. Those are the ones that I look to as being outstanding. They’re entertaining, they’re informative – it got people, in my opinion, to want to see that movie. It kept fans entertained and it brought more people over. Bryan Singer started to do it with Superman and then bailed out, which I heard his crew basically… they were falling out of fuckin’ windows and all kinds of crazy shit. I really feel bad for those guys. Now at the same time, it’s Joe and me. Joe and I did pretty much everything on the Train Wrecks and on the documentary except for the music on the documentary. Danny Sternbaum did that and he did an amazing job. So if we can keep our overhead low, bring the creative, bring the business, and do all that kinda stuff, I would love to see Chop Shop do things for other studios and other filmmakers. Like, if we can get to the Jerry Bruckheimers of the world, the Steven Spielbergs, get involved in their projects – because a lot of times, especially now with the internet, which is what helped Kevin out with the Train Wrecks, you can avoid spoilers just by having your own stuff out there. Kevin was able to fend off people ruining the beginning and end of Clerks through the Train Wrecks. We had fire trucks out there. The Quick Stop was burning. Then the Quick Stop was rebuilt. But because we had the Train Wrecks we were kinda able to throw people off the path. Now, I don’t want to say I’m lying to people…

KEN PLUME: No. But you’re satiating that natural curiosity that people have about a project that’s interesting to them.

ZAK: Totally. And other studios are starting to catch on. James Bond has done a few things. But I think what people are sick and tired of seeing is the standard EPK. The stuff you see on Entertainment Tonight, and, “Oh, it’s so great working with,” you know, “Tom Cruise. It’s so outstanding.”

KEN PLUME: Where everyone’s obviously asked the exact same question and coached in the answer.

ZAK: It’s the exact same questions, it’s the exact same B-roll. Now, if you can do that same thing but have Tom Cruise talking to the camera – have Tom Cruise talk to the fans directly and say, “This is our set.” Like, if it was on War of the Worlds and you have Tom Cruise standing in front of the 747 that’s on fire that just crashed into a fuckin’ house, that’s something right there. Now, if you want to hold onto that footage, you can totally do something else with it. There’s a million things you can do with it for promotion, for DVD, to keep the fans happy. ‘Cause that’s the one thing I think a lot of studios forget, they just put out the EPK to do everything. You want to keep the fans happy. Filmmaking has changed because of the internet. Now, whether you want to call it piracy or whatever, I don’t think you want to look at piracy as the unsung enemy. I think you want to look at that as the competition. And how you’re going to beat that, as the competition, is to load it up what you got with everything else… The internet webisodes, the documentaries… anything like that. Anything that you can do on there that’s creative, informative, and entertaining…

KEN PLUME: Well, you’re creating an experience…

ZAK: That’s what Chop Shop wants to do for everybody else, including Kevin.

KEN PLUME: Right. And you’re creating an experience instead of what a lot of these guys are trying to do now, which is do it after the fact. You’re doing it in real time as the film is being put together, instead of having – after the fact – people going, “Did anyone catch anything?”

ZAK: Totally.

JOEY: And also real quick, once the studios figure out that for the price of a fucking Sunday ad in a Sunday newspaper you can get hours of what is basically commercials with the video blog, that are gonna live on the internet forever…

ZAK: Now, for Clerks 2, Chop Shop put together four-and-a-half hours of Train Wrecks. We also did an hour-and-a-half documentary. We shot the EPK. We basically did everything for that. Now, when you put out an ad in the Sunday Times, it would have been more expensive than everything that we did for a year. I don’t want to run the numbers for everybody, because we’ve still got rent to pay. It makes more sense, though, and you can reach more people and get more people, than you can for just the stuff that everyone else is doing. I think the studios are afraid of the internet because they don’t know what’s there. And they don’t know how to control it.

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KEN PLUME: One of the biggest keys, though – when you talk about four-and-a-half hours of Train Wrecks, that was, what, 40 weeks?

JOEY: It was 48, almost 50 weeks.

KEN PLUME: That’s the big comparison I see as well, is that it’s not just a Sunday newspaper in a specific location, let’s say in New York or LA, that runs on one day and you’re hoping to capture the audience in that one shot… this is stuff that not only exists in perpetuity, but also will run over the course of a huge span of time, providing constant promotion for the project.

JOEY: Exactly.

ZAK: Totally. And in some realms it will live longer than that. Like the Clerks 2 DVD comes out in three weeks. All those Train Wrecks clips are still on the Clerks 2 site for people to go see. They’re still available on iTunes. They’re on YouTube. Those Inaction figure shorts, they’re still on Quick Stop Entertainment, they’re still on YouTube. That promotion is still there, still keeping awareness out for people when the DVD comes out.

JOEY: We’ve had over 10 million downloads of the Train Wrecks. It’s like, compare that to a newspaper ad. A newspaper ad, whatever the circulation may be, let’s say for instance 10 million people do see that ad. Well, the next day, some puppy dog is taking a shit, being potty trained on the Sunday ad. You know what I mean? The commercials on the internet are still rolling – but for the same, or less, amount of money.

ZAK: Plus, you can’t take that newspaper ad and put it on your iPod. You can’t put it on your computer. You can’t put it on your favorites on your computer.

KEN PLUME: You could but the glue would probably ruin it.

ZAK: It’s something that lives and it breathes and it keeps going and it keeps doing exactly what it’s supposed to do.

JOEY: And at the end of the day, the studio’s going to get a kick ass DVD, you know?

ZAK: That’s the key for us, is you can take all this shit, and you can put it on the DVD. You can put it on a separate DVD.

JOEY: Yeah, it serves two purposes. It serves as promotion for the movie, the whole run of the pre-production, production and post-production. Get the people involved and happy and looking forward to this flick if they’re interested or whatnot. And at the end of the day, you can load up the DVD with all these extras.

ZAK: It’s not the standard “making of” you see on HBO. You’re getting something more. You’re getting more into the insight of the filmmaker. The making of a movie. The personalization of it. And when you spend your 20 bucks on it, you don’t feel ripped off.

KEN PLUME: Not just that; you also have something that – going back to the sort of emergence of DVD and everyone scrambling to find stuff – you have an entire production documented with footage that can be mined for decades to come.

ZAK: Out of the footage we shot, Joe and I figured we can probably do three more documentaries. Out of the stories, out of everything else, we could do three more documentaries. Like, we’ve already made jokes about, but one day it might be true, on the Clerks 2 10th anniversary DVD, doing an entirely new documentary out of the footage. Like, it’s totally possible. And it wouldn’t be a crappy documentary, either. It’d be really good. We just had to pick the stories that we felt were relevant at the time to telling the story. We’ve got so many others that we can go into. We can totally do another DVD just out of the footage that we have, as a supplemental, or as the one that stands alone five years from now. It’s a wellspring that I don’t think anybody has really thought about. And the other cool thing about the internet that I didn’t bring up, is you’re able to address stuff as it happens. If something happens at 11:00 that morning… this happened once or twice, where we wanted to get something on the net immediately. Kevin would say, “I want to put something on the net right now.” We would shoot his intro at 11:00, and by 4:00 I was uploading it to the server so that it could be up for 5:00 when people got home from work. That’s something that you don’t have with the newspaper. Something you don’t have with a regular article. It’s something that you can go all-out, boom, and it’s automatic. You can address something as it happens.

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KEN PLUME: So I guess the big question would be to ask, what’s next?

JOEY: Well, we had some stuff going on where Kevin threw us this idea of shooting an in-depth documentary for the Chasing Amy 10th anniversary release. That’s kind of in a holding pattern right now for reasons we really shouldn’t even be talking about.

ZAK: We’ve got two projects with Kevin. This is the official one. We have two projects with Kevin that we would… actually more like three… that we’re talking about doing right now, but we’ve got to wait for things like money and contracts and all that kinda stuff, and then there’s a couple other people that we just started talking to, because they’re really pleased at the way the documentary’s turned out, and the Train Wrecks. So we’re trying to get it out there, and we’re trying to get it together. We just got our website up, that Ming from View Askew is helping us out with, and we’re trying to get that up and get that running.

JOEY: It’s a temporary site right now but Ming’s kinda diving into it pretty soon. He’s been real busy with all these screenings and whatnot.

ZAK: And then it’s basically putting together packages and trying to get in touch with filmmakers to say, “You got movies coming up – we can help you. And it’s not gonna cost you an arm and a leg, and you’re gonna be extremely pleased and happy with it at the end of it, and your movie will make more money because of it.”

KEN PLUME: What’s the URL again?

ZAK: Oh, it’s chopshopentertainment.com

KEN PLUME: So at what point are you two going to kill each other in some kind of Thunderdome battle?

ZAK: (laughing) It’s almost happened a couple times.

JOEY: Yeah, it’s almost happened a few times.

ZAK: Joe has a tendency to stand over my shoulder when I edit. And I can’t stand it. It drives me insane. But out of the….

KEN PLUME: Does he poke you and say, “Are we there yet?”

ZAK: Well, that’s the thing – out of the 10 things that he’ll tell me, five of them in my opinion will be completely bullshit, but then the other five I totally reluctantly have to agree to.

KEN PLUME: I’ll bet Paul Simon said the exact same thing to Art Garfunkel.

ZAK: Joe and I have worked with each other for the last 10 years, pretty much, and we’ve been friends, and we’ve always hung out, and we always had a thing with film. And I think we’re one of the few partners in town who can actually work together and get along and have a friendship at the same time. Some people have said, “You know, it’s a very Scott & Kevin kinda thing,” but we spend more time with each other than Scott & Kevin do. Which shows when the booze comes out…

JOEY: Not in a gay way.

ZAK: Yeah, it’s totally…

KEN PLUME: It’s good that you had to clarify that.

ZAK: Once or twice we’ve gone at each other’s throats but I think that’s totally expected…

JOEY: We chalk that up to alcohol sometimes.

ZAK: Booze is a big help in going at each other’s throats, because your nuts grow really big.

JOEY: Yeah.

KEN PLUME: So who would win in a fight?

ZAK: Joe.

JOEY: No, I think Zak would.

ZAK: I’m bigger. I’m like 6’4, 290. But Joe wears a lot of rings. So it’s kinda like wearing brass knuckles.

JOEY: I’m closer to the nuts. I can get there faster.

KEN PLUME: So, in other words, Joe would use the Jack Sparrow technique.

ZAK: Yeah, we always say if there’s gonna be a fight, I’m not gonna do John Wayne – I’m gonna pull hair, bite, scratch… I’d hit you over the head with a fuckin’ chair… but the thing is he’s faster…

KEN PLUME: I somehow get this vision of Mongo from Blazing Saddles

ZAK: Dude, you have no idea. (laughing) That’s why I like to sit in front of the Final Cut Pro system. I just sit there and plunk away at keys.

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Download Clip #1 – “Rehearsals”:

  • Large (560 x 420 – QuickTime – 19.22 MB)
  • Small (320 x 240 – QuickTime – 8.51 MB)

Download Clip #2 – “Make Or Break”:

  • Large (560 x 420 – QuickTime – 17.73 MB)
  • Small (320 x 240 – QuickTime – 7.86 MB)

Download Clip #3 – “First Reactions”:

  • Large (560 x 420 – QuickTime – 19.06 MB)
  • Small (320 x 240 – QuickTime – 8.63 MB)
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November 6, 2006

Interview: Tom Kenny

Filed under: Interviews — UncaScroogeMcD @ 11:29 pm

-by Ken Plume

kenny-01.jpgBe it under a rock or deep in a cave upon the highest peak, you must have been living there if the Spongebob Squarepants phenomenon has passed you by. If you’ve been around any child below the age of 15, they can probably tell you exactly who Bikini Bottom’s most famous animated invertebrate is – and, chances are, there are some hip adults that will also clue you in, being fans themselves (I’m looking at you, Fred Hembeck).

As the voice of the krabby patty flipping squarepants enthusiast, Tom Kenny has brought to life a cultural icon the world over… And he’s a nice guy, to boot. In fact, if you’re not aware of the scads of voice work he’s done over the years (including the mayor and narrator of The Powerpuff Girls), then you probably know him from his on-camera work in the legendary Mr. Show with Bob & David (alongside his equally talented wife Jill Talley).

kenny-03.jpgHe’s also crafted (with Andy Paley) a toe-tapping album starring Spongebob and friends titled The Best Day Ever – a glorious piece of pop informed by his idols, including the likes of The Beach Boys and The Who (in fact, Brian Wilson is a guest artist on the album).

Also, be sure to take in Nickelodeon’s “Best Day Ever” Marathon this Thursday, November 11th, at 8pm EST.
And now, we pick up our conversation with Mr. Kenny, which took place in the wake of a few slight scheduling snafus…

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TOM KENNY: I don’t know what happened… He said 4:30 yesterday, and I said, “Oh that’s great, I’m in between things and perfect and I’ve got his number…” It was just one of those things where, you know, your phone starts ringing and you’re mailing stuff out, and I didn’t even realize I blew it until this morning as I was making my kids’ lunches. I’m like, “God, I hope this Ken Plume guy isn’t going, ‘I bet if I was USA Today he’d call me back!’ ”

KEN PLUME: No, you don’t get this from Billy West.

KENNY: Yeah, right – Billy West calls back. He knows. Stimpy knows how to use the phone.

KEN PLUME: Billy will take you out to dinner. Send flowers, even.

KENNY: Where are you?

KEN PLUME: I’m in North Carolina, on the coast.

KENNY: Oh, nice.

KEN PLUME: Nice except for hurricane season.

KENNY: Yes, exactly. It’s so funny… I’m so ignorant of the whole internet culture and stuff like that. Is this something that you tape for an iPod broadcast?

KEN PLUME: No, this’ll be transcribed.

KENNY: I even call it an iPod broadcast. I’m like a guy who’s 110 years old. “All these newfangled iPod broadcasts…”

KEN PLUME: And compact records…

KENNY: Compact records! Yeah, I’m super old. I’m going out to dinner with Brian Wilson tonight, which should be a very whacky experience. I’ve never really talked to him except the day we spent on the Spongebob album.

KEN PLUME: Let me tell you, the album’s great.

KENNY: Oh, thank you. Music freaks like it. People who pore over liner notes.

KEN PLUME: I’m one of the few people who “got” the in-jokes in the Paul Decca story short film you were involved in.

KENNY: Oh, that’s great! Cool. Yeah, it was really fun. But yeah, I haven’t talked to Brian since… it’s not like he’s a friend of mine. I don’t really know him or anything, except doing this one session with him. But he called me yesterday, and I thought it was somebody pranking me. I just got this message, (Brian Wilson impression) “Tom, it’s Brian Wilson. I want to go out to dinner with you. Tomorrow. 6:45. Vibrato café.” Click. So I’m like, wow, whoever that is does a not bad Brian Wilson.

KEN PLUME: Yeah, “Damn you Billy West and your practical jokes.”

KENNY: Yeah, well, you know – that’s the problem when you’re friends of voiceover people. It could be Jeremy Irons calling me or it could be Jeff Bennett.

KEN PLUME: Someone should actually compile all the voiceover jokes that people have played.

KENNY: Yeah, and voiceover people are sort of on the lookout for them, but you can really… like one of the VO guys does a dead-on Simon Cowell from Idol, and my wife’s sister is an American Idol fanatic, and we had “Simon Cowell” leave a message on her machine, and she went nuts. At what point do I say this is all a cruel prank? Or should I let her go to her grave… it’s not like she’s ever gonna really meet Simon Cowell and compare notes. Maybe I should just let it go.

KEN PLUME: You say that, but there’s gonna be this odd little meeting at a grocery store one day.

KENNY: “Excuse, me, I almost bumped into you, didn’t I? I called you? No I didn’t.”

KEN PLUME: “I never called you, woman.”

KENNY: “I’m not in the habit of leaving messages on total stranger’s machines, especially suburban house fraus such as yourself.”

KEN PLUME: Then you get an awkward phone call from her and it’s all over. That’s how families are torn apart.

KENNY: Exactly. Suddenly it’s like when Ralph told his old friend that he was president of the Gotham Bus Company, and then the guy actually showed up. Suddenly you’re in a Honeymooners plot.

KEN PLUME: It all eventually winds up in a Honeymooners plot anyway, no matter what you do.

KENNY: Exactly. There’s only 38 ways your life can go.

KEN PLUME: Speaking of which, congratulations on the continued longevity of Spongebob.

KENNY: Thanks. Just for that, I’m sending you a gift basket full of 100-year-old champagne.

KEN PLUME: Oh… no need for that. 50-year-old will be fine.

KENNY: Yeah, it’s fun. I think it would be different if it was a live action show or something. I’d probably be maybe tiring of it a little bit, but with animation you do it once a week.

KEN PLUME: It seems that the longer you go, that they’re giving you more and more flexibility…

KENNY: Yeah. You mean within the sessions? The sessions are always kinda fun and loose and everybody’s there. They’re full cast. So you know, they’re kinda fun, freewheeling kind of affairs.

KEN PLUME: And then you do stuff like the album…

KENNY: Yeah, well, that was fun because I love the characters so much and I wanted to write something for them. And, you know, schedule-wise, it would be kinda hard for me to do any kind of regular writing on any kinda basis on the show. Or even, you know, I guess I could write kids chapter books or something, I could maybe pitch some of that idea… they’ll let me write one or two of those. I felt like I knew the characters and really liked the characters and kinda had this proprietary sense about the characters. I think Steve (Hillenburg, creator of Spongebob) has done such a good job of establishing who they are and what they’re about, that they’re fun to write for. There’s already people writing the show and there’s already people writing the chapter books for kids or whatever, and the one area that it seemed hadn’t really been mined was the CD area. There had been a couple of CDs where they just pulled…

KEN PLUME: Stuff from the show…

KENNY: … clips off, little snippets of songs off a show, off of episodes or whatever. But I kinda wanted to do something a little more ambitious, and something that involved original material, not just stuff that was intended for one medium just kinda being slapped onto a different audio-only medium. It seems like none of the songs that were on those other CDs were really ever intended to live as songs, to stand alone as songs that are structured like a song and have the length of a song, and have…

KEN PLUME: A cohesiveness…

KENNY: Good playing… you know, like really good playing. For one thing, there’s no time. Like, when we do music on the show – Eban Schletter, the music guy, is super talented, and I worked on Mr. Show with him too. He did all the music on Mr. Show. He’s scary talented, but just the budget and the fast turnaround of TV animation being what it is, the composer winds up making a backing track, and everything winds up kinda being a synthesizer. Like, all the horns and everything – especially the harder instruments – are usually samples on a keyboard, even though it sounds like a trumpet or whatever. I kinda wanted to do something a little more handmade and a little more handcrafted with the record, so nothing on the record is a fake or a sample. All the horns are real, all the harps are real, the theremin’s real.

KEN PLUME: It definitely shines through on the album. It has a warmth and an energy that unfortunately is too often missing from even a lot of studio albums from well-known bands.

KENNY: Yeah, especially for kids, you know? I’ve got kids, so I listen to a fair amount of kids’ music just driving around in the station wagon or whatever. And yeah, a lot of it seems kinda phoned in or… not all of it, but some of it seems kinda lazy, almost like, “Ah, it’s just a kids’ album. Do we really need to get a real violinist for a kids album? Do we really need to find a theremin player? There’s only like 10 guys who play theremin in the world. Do we really need that?” And I don’t know, maybe it is weird… like, maybe in terms of a business plan it’s not the smartest thing to do, but that really wasn’t what this record was about. It was really just about wanting to do something fun with Spongebob that hadn’t been done before, and Spongebob has been so merchandised that it’s hard to find any product that hasn’t been done with him already. So I really wanted to do this before somebody else got to it, and had the idea, because I knew they wouldn’t have the same obsessive passion that Andy Paley and I did. But yeah, thanks for saying that about the warmth. I think it really does come out. You know what I mean? I think you can hear… even if it’s only kinda subconscious and subliminal, I think… I don’t know, I think on some subatomic level you can tell when it’s a real drum. No matter how good the sample sounds. You can tell when it’s a real guy bashing away behind a set of drums. It just has a sweat to it and an energy to it that even the most convincing sample can’t.

KEN PLUME: Well, the thing that really gets me in modern recordings – there are two things in a recording that tip it off, it’s not so much the drums, but I personally can’t stand electric piano.

KENNY: I’m so with you! I’m so with you on that! I hate going to see a band, especially if it’s roots music like a blues or jazz guy, something that’s organic and rootsy, and as soon as I see an electric piano, I always get a little let down.

KEN PLUME: There’s such a metallic sound to it.

KENNY: I so agree, and conversely when I go to see a show, and I see a real piano on stage, I just get happy. And I know how hard it is to move a real piano around, so it’s like, I applaud the extra effort of anybody who actually goes to the pain in the ass of transporting a real piano around. I’m so with you on the electric piano. I’m so with you.

KEN PLUME: I just hate when someone hides the electric piano in, like, a grand piano case.

KENNY: That’s hilarious! I know!

KEN PLUME: And I’m not gonna name names, but I was just listening to Elton John’s new album…

KENNY: Ah-hah! You mean the red piano’s a synthesizer?

KEN PLUME: His grand pianos are all synthesizers. They’re all Yamahas.

KENNY: He must have a lucrative sponsorship deal. That’s funny, they just take like the shell of a piano and just stick some crappy little…

KEN PLUME: Yeah, stick an electric board in it. And who are you fooling?

KENNY: That is so funny. Well, Elton has a very keen sense of style. I’m sure he realizes that a real piano looks cooler on stage.

KEN PLUME: Yes, otherwise it’s just a lounge act.

KENNY: Yeah, you don’t want to go and see Jerry Lee Lewis and he’s banging on a little electric keyboard. It just bums you out.

KEN PLUME: Kicking out the little two inch wide stand on either side.

KENNY: (laughing) Yeah! So we did that, which is kind of like a hard way to do it, and maybe harder than it needed to be. You know, the same thing with, like – we decided to make an album that works best if you listen to it in order, like an album. Which really is not really a contemporary way that anyone listens to music. Like, I’m gonna start with track one and listen to all 24 tracks. We tried to make it like a jigsaw puzzle, so that even in the random shuffle world the stuff still stands by itself. And even the comedy bits, when they’re leading into a specific song, at least the comedy bit has a joke in it that lets it stand by itself.

KEN PLUME: What I think was great about it, and I had sort of a cheat sheet since I knew what a huge music fan you were as I was listening to the album – albums, as you said, aren’t constructed like that anymore, as a cohesive whole. People are looking for the single or just throwing in, “Oh, these are the cuts I had done in time for release…”

KENNY: Well, and I think that’s just the way people listen to music now. They buy a song for 99 cents here and a song for 99 cents there, and they kinda program their own… it’s almost back to being a singles world, which in some ways I kinda like. Nickelodeon, and especially Steve Hillenburg, were so magnanimous and non-interfering about letting us do this… I pitched him this record and they gave us a budget and they didn’t really bug us. They didn’t really ask for any editorial input, really. It was pretty great. I felt really lucky that here you’re given the keys to this Spongebob car, and it’s like, this really powerful lucrative brand, and even though it’s this huge international trademark or whatever, I feel like they let us make a really idiosyncratic, like oddball album that let us tip our hats to a lot of things that we’re really obsessive about, or really grateful for, or into. Like old school rock ‘n’ roll radio when deejays mattered and the radio personality was kind of the tastemaker instead of just somebody that was following up a chart, a playlist. And albums, cool concept albums like Who Sell Out and Pet Sounds and Tommy and stuff like that. I love those records where you’re kinda listening to them all the way through, and…

KEN PLUME: You actually sit down for an experience with an album…

KENNY: Yeah, and it’s not even like… I mean, a record’s 50 minutes long, I don’t know if anybody… maybe people will go back to it, like a movie. “Oh, here’s the scene I left off at.” But it also works on shuffle too, which we kinda constructed it jigsaw puzzle-wise to be like that. The stuff we wanted to give a nod to was stuff like Smile and Pet Sounds, and especially Who Sell Out, with our fake radio commercials and things like that. The LA Times compared it to the Roger Waters record Radio Chaos, which I had never heard. But I guess it’s about some evil radio station that wants to take over the world. I’m not much of a Pink Floyd guy, but I thought that was a funny connection that the LA Times guy made.

KEN PLUME: When are you doing the Spongey Horror Picture Show?

KENNY: (laughing) That would be awesome. I’d love to. We want to do a Christmas album. Andy and I are already writing songs for a Christmas album that nobody’s told us we could do yet.

November 3, 2006

10 Quick Questions: Borat

Filed under: Columns,Interviews,Trailer Park — UncaScroogeMcD @ 6:15 pm
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by Christopher Stipp

I wish those of you who are going to see BORAT this weekend, and are excited to be doing so after being seduced by the slew of advertisements that assaulted network television in the past weeks, could be doing so without knowing anything about this movie.

borat-01.jpgIf you saw this movie cold like I did, only having a general idea of the film but willing to stampede my fellow nerd cohorts to be at the screening at the San Diego Comic-Con almost 4 months ago, then I could honestly state that this movie would’ve clocked you like a sucker punch. As it stands, however, a lot of you are a warmed to the notion of what you’re getting into and the kind of material that’s present in the flick itself; I am woefully disappointed, as well, that many outlets deemed it fine to release images of The Running of The Jew, thereby spoiling the visual hilarity. That’s alright, though, as this movie still manages to raze any glass temples of those comedies you thought were the paragons of film humor. BORAT demolishes your crap taste in what you believed was funny and happily replaces it with the catchphrases you’ll be mouthing for weeks to come. Lord knows my 3-year old daughter loves to say “Hiiiigh-Fiiiive” and “Thaaaat’s Niccceee…” in a way that only a geek dad like me could be proud of.

That said, I am happy that after contacting Fox Online Publicity regarding really getting behind this film and doing everything I could in order to be a preacher for the religion that is BORAT finally was answered. Today. This morning. I knew if I just stayed with it, if I just showed how much of a fan I was for this crazy Kazakh after only one viewing, if I only mentioned that I could’ve pimped this film every week from July to November, that good things would come of it. I am glad at what I am now able to present to you.

No interview means more to me right now than being able to give the masses, the teeming thousands of you, an EXCLUSIVE look into the world of BORAT and get answers to a very special edition of “10 Quick Questions With…” to Quick Stop Entertainment. Ladies, gentlemen and everything else in-between, I present: Borat.

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KEN PLUME: Do you have any comment at all about Bruno, an individual who has just scored a 42 million dollar paycheck from Universal, is going to be developing a movie based on a show that looks suspiciously close to what you do?

BORAT:

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KEN PLUME: And, a follow-up, how do you feel about Austrians in general?

BORAT:

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KEN PLUME: Your English is remarkably polished for a man that comes from a country where formal education doesn’t seem to be a priority. How did you get a grip on the basic Anglo particulars of the world outside of a totalitarian regime?

BORAT:

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KEN PLUME: Some people have leveled some pretty serious allegations that your quest across America has shown a lot of your subjects to be poor representations of Americans in general and that you purposely selected targets to get the greatest comedic reaction. How do respond to that?

BORAT:

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KEN PLUME: Looking at the movie now what do you think is the starkest realization you can make about what this film represents?

BORAT:

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KEN PLUME: What was like trying to convince Larry Charles to go along with you on this journey of yours and was there any hesitation on his part to get involved in this production?

BORAT:

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KEN PLUME: What kind of frustrations did you have to overcome in order to be able shoot the kind of film you wanted with the money you had and was there any give-and-take with managing your needs with the needs of the studio?

BORAT:

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KEN PLUME: Why do you think people, even I, are having a visceral reaction to this film’s material in general?

BORAT:

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KEN PLUME: I am amazed by the groundswell of interest this movie has garnered as the film’s release date has come closer but do you think that your job, as an artist, is to simply reflect what you see or was there a germ in your mind about what you suspected you’d find when you plotted this film’s progression from pre-production to post?

BORAT:

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KEN PLUME: Kazakhstan is situated right above Uzbekistan, the site for one of the bloodiest anti-government protests in Central Asia, hundreds of innocent people literally mowed down by government forces as the nation’s dictator, Islam Karimov, gave the directive to do so. Uzbekistan is enjoying the benefits of working with the United States by allowing detainees to be “interrogated” and “questioned,” and no doubt tortured, on Uzbek soil. Do you think Kazakhstan has the huevos to step up, do what’s right, one-up those Uzbekian lightweights and show them what oppression really means?

BORAT:

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We’d like to thank Fox Online Publicity for all of their help in setting up this interview.

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October 24, 2006

Trailer Park: Can You Handle A Lot Of Dick?

Filed under: Columns,Interviews,Trailer Park — admin @ 8:38 am

By Christopher Stipp

Archives? Right Here…And Over Here

He was right.

You do have expectations when someone tells you that you’re about to have one on one time with Andy Dick. Impropriety, boorishness and obnoxiousness are all things that spring eternal when you only have public perception to go off of.

True, if you’re doing your due diligence you can see that not all of Andy’s past can be written off to superfluous exaggerations that can be easily erased. He’s deserved a lot of it.

However, the roast for William Shatner has been a watershed in Andy’s recent past with regard to what the power of the written word can do to a person. A writer for the New York Post’s notorious Page Six gossip column detailed an out-of-control Andy that “groped” “tried to kiss” and “proclaimed his love for her” before finally “urinating in front of the horrified journalist.” It’s hard to defend one’s self against something like this but even though Andy goes on to explain what happened below, his language befitting his defense; it really is Andy’s suggestion to investigate the writer’s personal blog that opened my eyes to something genuinely pathetic.

The woman who supposed herself to be horrified by this whole situation has turned her audio of the situation into comedy and even employs her friends to “act out” the transcript in what I can only assume is supposed to be something amusing, funny even.

It isn’t.

It’s embarrassing. The woman makes a mocks of her own stupidity in thinking it would be hilarious to get all her cronies on a stage and make something out of a drunken moment that, even if true, is more sad and personal than anything else. This isn’t so much about exploiting this moment for whatever it’s worth but it’s a glaring reflection of this woman as a professional. Jayson Blair she’s not but it’s a shame to know that a woman who has such an impressive resume of popular periodicals she’s written for treats the profession of a writer, the very thing she touts as being so important to her, with as much regard as a vampire would give to a fattened sow.

Now, while the above incident stokes some of Andy’s emotional embers, we had to break this interview up over two days only because we had to stop after he vented regarding what happened that night, Andy was perhaps one of the most engaging interview subjects I’ve had the pleasure to talk to this year. His blend of honesty and irreverence makes him vulnerable, to be sure, but it’s a rarity.

You’ve got to give it up for a guy who helped push Ben Stiller into the pop cultural zeitgeist, who assisted a Kid in The Hall to make one of the better sitcoms ever produced by NBC and made an honest living over on ABC for so many years. It’s hard not to give thanks for a guy who works so well within the fabric of comedy and still finds the strength to fight the market forces that would rather see an obnoxious version of a persona he is trying to shed. True, public incidents have threatened to chip away at what he’s built over these years but it’s his tenaciousness that’s going to keep him around for a long time.

Watch for Andy Dick’s directorial debut this winter when DANNY ROANE: FIRST TIME DIRECTOR comes to theaters and as it lands on DVD. I caught up with Andy just as he was talking to someone other than me.

ACT I

CHRISTOPHER STIPP: What are you working on?

ANDY DICK: We’re writing a pilot and [the people I’m working with] have a lot of questions.

CS: What’s the pilot for if I could ask?

DICK: Comedy Central. I’m writing it longhand and they have to translate my hieroglyphics to the computer.

CS: Is it really that bad?

DICK: Yeah, because I think faster than I write.

CS: I know when you talked with Howard Stern last week regarding how well you’re doing since rehab are you finding your thoughts are coming to you quicker, cleaner?

DICK: Yup, oh yeah. Hell yes.

I bounce back surprisingly fast but it’s not like I’m shoting up heroin in a drug den or passed out on a big, black whore in a downtown LA crack house. Hey, I’m not sayin’ I’m too good for that. I’ve just never been invited to a good crack house.

CS: And this brings up a great point: is it odd to have so many people, the public, know so much about your personal life?

DICK: Yeah, that was probably a bad move on my part.

I know a lot of people in the industry with bigger demons than me, but you would never know it because they do a good job of keeping it under wraps. They do and their team does. My team, Team Dick, threw in the towel years ago, and it wasn’t really a towel to begin with. It was more of a cum rag.

Hollywood is riddled with addicts of all colors: drug addicts, sex addicts, gambling addicts, perverts, freaks and weirdoes. And I’m still talking about Team Dick, which of course I’m not only the president but I’m also a member. You know I’m just kidding, except for the cum rag part.

CS: And it seems like when you were talking with Howard last week that the relationship you’re forging with your son is helping you a great deal.

DICK: He’s a shining light in my life. He’s really a good kid.

CS: And was he there during the infamous Shatner roast?

DICK: He was in the audience.

CS: And for those not in the know about what was alleged in Page Six about what happened following the roast how did the events get so blown out of proportion?

DICK: Well, what do you think happened?

CS: From what I read it said you had openly urinated on the floor.

DICK: No, no, no. That’s such a lie. That girl came into my dressing room uninvited.

She’s a non-working stand-up comic; an unfunny, self-proclaimed, stand-up comic looking like a ravenous wolverine hunting for material.

She saw an easy target, his name was Andy Dick, and she forced her way into my dressing room past my friends. She’s cute so she was able to charm her way in, sit in the main chair in the room and hold court with the rest of my friends where she wowed everyone with her fake cuteness, her saccharine sweet smile, and the cunty way about her.

She then, after partying with us, drinking, having fun, doing whatever with my friends, and then announced that she is doing an article”¦she’s a Page Six reporter. And then, when I heard that, I said, “Oh, you gotta help me out over there. They’re so mean. They’re constantly raking me over the coals. You can see we’re just having fun, we all are, we’re laughing, we’re having fun.” She’s laughing, she’s having fun, she’s flirting with my guy friends, she’s pretty much slutting her way around my dressing room, like I said, holding court with all my guy friends.

I’m trying to explain to her, “You’ve got to help me. You can see I’m not doing drugs, we’re all drinking. You’ve got to write something. You can see I’m a nice guy.” I was really trying to toot my own horn and prove that I was nice. I went into the bathroom, which is over towards the door and around the corner, the toilet’s way around the corner, you can’t even see the door from where she was sitting, let alone the toilet. I left the door open and as I’m peeing I say out loud, “I’m leaving the door open so that you know I’m not doing drugs in here. That’s how important this is that you write something nice about me.”

So, even my best efforts to show, to appear that I’m doing well, which I wasn’t at my best, I was drinking, and by that point I was probably even half-crocked, she turned that into that I peed on her, you say I peed on the floor, I didn’t pee on the floor, I peed in the toilet, with the door open, where no one could see so that she could tell that I wasn’t doing any kind of drugs because I wasn’t.

If I ever see her now that I haven’t been drinking and I have my wits more about me, if I ever run into her again I would kick her in the cunt if I didn’t think it would ruin my shine. And that’s a quote from Michael O’Donoghue from Saturday Night Live when he was upset about being cut out of a cast and crew picture.

You can see I’m a little angry.

CS: And rightfully so.

DICK: Thank you, I agree.

One girl, single-handedly, one comic, non-working, un-funny, because I’ve listened to some of her stuff on MySpace, one comic almost single-handedly took me out at the knees and it did major major damage.

Now, I didn’t need any help to figure out I needed to sober up. I was taking a break, I had just finished months before the roast, Less Than Perfect got cancelled, and I was taking what I call a mini-vacation. I was drinking, taking a vacation, and I knew I was going to sober up before I started working on the Comedy Central pilot. I didn’t need any help from this girl. I can take myself down to my own bottom.

CS: Well, why do people like her exist to perpetuate disinformation?

DICK: Everyone loves to read about someone else who’s doing horribly. It makes them feel better. Even I do. It’s very hard for me but I do not read the tabloids. They’re right in front of my face when I’m buying something at Whole Foods, and I just do not pick them up. I want to, I want to see that weird picture of Nicole Ritchie running on the beach and she’s got folds of skin”¦it’s right there on the cover, you can’t get away from it. It’s so unfair but I’ve seen other pictures where she doesn’t have the cellulite. Which one is the untouched picture?

It’s so creepy but people love to read and hear about other people doing horribly. But in this particular case this woman, because I have people that report back to me from New York City, who have seen her live on stage at an open mic type of situation where she’s not getting paid, talks about me and, pretty much, takes her little story, expands upon it, and turns it into a little one woman show.

She’s just a fuckin’ bitch is what she is. She’s just a true, downright fucking needy desperate little whore bitch. And you can print that.

She’s a horrible person and those people are out there. She SOLD her shit, probably for 50 bucks, to Howard. And that’s why I was so mad at Howard that he would take that and he would do that. He would play it on the air and it’s like I wish I had a mini tape recorder so I could record, just a little bit, of Howard and his girlfriend having sex. I bet that would be really funny. But, I wouldn’t do that.

I would love to be able and record one one conversation that witch has had with her ex-boyfriend or her mother or herself when she’s talking into the mirror: “Who’s the cuntiest of them all?” We could play that on the radio for everyone to hear. It’s like, leave me alone. I don’t go after you and your pathetic life don’t go after me and my pathetic life. I can get to a place where things are pretty pathetic, I don’t need any help getting there”¦having it being spread all over the airwaves like bad Smuckers jam on moldy Wonder Bread. I ain’t milquetoast or middle of the road white bread, baby.

CS: Any way for retribution or a retraction”¦

DICK: There’s too much stuff out there”¦It’s impossible because it starts with the seed of truth. What am I going to do, hire lawyers to sue her? There’s just no point. That just keeps it alive, and then suddenly she has a career based on me trying to sue her. It’s a vicious circle. It just gives it more and more power. I’ve already given her too much power in this interview. I’m done. She’s dead to me. That’s the last you’ll hear about her except when I go to jail for kicking her in her dried-up, barren, rancid, smelly cunt.

[Andy laughs]

ACT II

DICK: Let’s do this”¦

CS: Let’s talk DANNY ROANE: FIRST TIME DIRECTOR.

DICK: What do you want to know?

CS: Well, it looks like your first foray into making your own film.

DICK: Yup, I wrote it, I raised my own money by going to the bank and taking it out my account, produced it, directed it, cast it, used all my friends in it and sold it to Lions Gate.

CS: Were you the one involved in pitching the movie to Lions Gate?

DICK: No pitch. I made the movie; shot it, directed it, edited it, had it all done and I just had to show them the final product. There was no studio involved. The movie was done and I showed it to a bunch of people. And then Think Films”¦You’ve heard of Think Films?

CS: Yes.

DICK: Think Films, they did THE ARISTOCRATS, they wanted to buy it, Lions Gate wanted to buy it, and a few other companies wanted to buy it, and I chose Lions Gate just because I just”¦they offered more money and I was in a movie, EMPLOYEE OF THE MONTH, I was in that and it’s a Lions Gate movie and so I just wanted to stay in bed with them, so to speak. I’m about to go pitch them a movie now, the normal way. Where you pitch it and then write it and develop it and I’m doing that next week.

CS: Were you at any kind of disadvantage when you made DANNY ROANE with regard to having to coordinate the schedules of the people I see that are in it, Jack Black, Ben Stiller, Maura Tierney, etc”¦

DICK: There were a lot of roadblocks and obstacles but I got through all of them. There are just tons and tons. There were so many that a normal person would just quit and stop but I had a great producer, Marshall Cook, who, every time I wanted to quit, would say, “Let’s just keep going.” We pushed through and pushed through.

We only shot for 12 days.

CS: Really?

DICK: Yeah, we had some pick-up shots throughout the year and then we edited, we edited for a good 8 months, on and off, because I used 5 different editors, at different times, then the Avids were set up in my house and we really just did it on a shoestring budget and by the skin of our teeth.

CS: A lot of people have to go back and do re-shoots”¦Anything you thought you captured the first time and then it just didn’t happen to capture the way you wanted?

DICK: No, I have a lot of disappointments, but that’s how it is with any artist: “It could’ve been better.”

Could’ve been better but everything I’ve done in my life could have been done better. But, it’s a great great great movie and”¦could’ve done better.

CS: So you still want to make a second feature?

DICK: Oh yeah, this next one I am pitching”¦I’m going to write it, direct it and star in it as well. I want do one a year like Woody Allen. I love it. I love the process. It’s just like a painting; you constantly want to paint over it and repaint it and make it better. It’s like when I first learned how to do oil painting and I painted a picture and it was so beautiful but I kept tweaking it to the point where it was an ugly mass of globby crap. You can’t do that. It’s too easy to overwork something.

CS: That’s a great thing you’ve said because some of the greatest authors of literature, when they were still alive and had a chance to edit subsequent editions of their work, tweaked and revising. Is there a point where you can’t stop yourself or do you have to say, “This is as good as it’s going to be”?

DICK: I guess”¦that’s the most important part of director’s vision: just to know when to stop. Just to know when to say, “This movie is done. It’s as good as it can get,”

For what I shot, and the amount of money I had, DANNY ROANE is as good as it can be or I wouldn’t have stopped. I edited my little heart out till I said this movie isn’t going to get any better for what it is and for what I have shot. I can keep going back to add a little more, edit a little more but I can’t because I don’t have the money. You just have to stop. And that’s when the director becomes the artist. He has to make that creative decision. “Ok, now we’re done folks.”

And I’m not even really done because I have to take out a lot of the music that’s in it because I only paid for festival rights and now that it’s going to be a real movie”¦it’s going to be another $100,000, I found out, to buy the songs so I have to have friends write songs, I have to write songs, I need to find cool indie bands that don’t have publishing deals yet because I don’t have $100,000 in my pocket to pay for all the great songs I picked out. Everything from Ween, Tom Waits to Nick Drake. I just don’t have the money.

CS: Does that change the vibe of the film? When you’ve obviously scored it in your head”¦

DICK: Of course”¦My goal is to make it even better, of course. I’m not going to cheapen it. I’m going to find songs that, in my head, make it better, obviously. I’m not setting out to make it crappier.

I’m going to take my time”¦really sift through lots of music that people are giving me. I’m going to find the right songs. I’m going to have a kick-ass soundtrack and it’s going to be better than the original one because the original music was a lot of afterthought, “Oh, by the way, we need music.” And I quickly gathered all my favorite songs, not worrying right then and there how much it was going to cost me.

Now, it’s time to worry about that.

CS: And when is DANNY ROANE going to come out?

Hopefully, sometime next year. Beginning of next year. January, February, something like that, on DVD. We might have a small theatrical opening, New York, LA.

CS: Excellent. And now, I hate to switch gears so fast, but because I know you don’t have that long I’d like to know more about The Shit Show you did on Sirius.

DICK: Oh good. Now THAT’S something we can talk about at length because that’s happening right now.

I’m actually in negotiations with both Sirius and XM so it’s kind of like DANNY ROANE where I was talking to Think Films and talking to Lions Gate.

I have a relationship with Howard Stern and he”¦we already did a pilot episode [on Sirius] that was an hour long, and that was two Tuesdays ago, at 10 o’clock at night or something like that. And it went really well and they were trying to make a deal with me but the money is so low, it’s laughable.

And I called XM and said, because I had been doing some interviews on their stations, “Would you guys like me to a do a show for you?” Because I had so much fun doing the show [on Sirius], it was so easy, and they kind of sweetened the pot a bit”¦they said, “Well, we’ll set up a studio in your house.” And I’m like if I have a studio in my house I wouldn’t mind doing a daily show which means, of course, more money, more fun and it could just be every night at like 10 o’clock from 10 to midnight. I think it should be from 11 to 1 because a lot of people go to bed between the hours of 11 to 1 so they could listen to it as they go to bed so I’m the last thing that they hear and they can dream about me all night.

[I laugh]

CS: And what kind of content?

DICK: It’s hardcore.

I use it as a platform. It’s almost like therapy for me. I just basically”¦it’s a music show, one musical guest, and a big one, like we have the Flaming Lips lined up, the lead singer from the Flaming Lips, we’ve got Isaac from Modest Mouse, we’ve got people all lined up to do the show, Alanis Morissette, Dave Grohl, these are all the people that we’re going after, who are also my friends. Jack Black from Tenacious D, Jack and Kyle, both of them, and all of them always have an album to promote.

It’s hardcore but it’s fun. We’re going to say the word “shit” we’re going to say the word “fuck,” because that’s the way I talk. The show has three segments: sex, drugs and rock n’ roll. And I basically talk with this person, it’s kind of like absolving your sins, we’ll top each other’s stories. “Oh, you did that? Here’s what I did this one time”¦” And we just talk about things we’ve done in the past and either how we either regret them or how we’re apologetic about it”¦it’s an amends like in the 12-step program. There’s a step in there called making amends where you talk about things you’ve done in the past. You go to that person and if there’s an apology owed you make that apology.

I have people call in and one segment is “Andy Dick Owes You A Formal Apology” and there’s plenty of people who call in who say “You know what you did to my girlfriend” or “You know what happened one night ten years ago” and I either corroborate the story and give them a formal apology that is pre-taped, I just insert their name, so that’s kind of a joke, but it’s good to just clear, on a very mundane, base, level”¦it clears my past. I don’t see the person eye-to-eye but I feel good about it. When I did the show I just felt real good. I must have had 10 callers call in on that segment alone.

For the most part the time runs out really fast, I never want it to end, and the whole time the musician is acoustically playing background music and by the end we talk about what’s coming up for them and then they play one or two songs from their album. They can play covers. It’s really an awesome show.

CS: It seems, if I can say it, like a real un-Andy Dick from what people would probably expect”¦

DICK: Yeah, it’s EXACTLY what they don’t expect but it’s exactly who I am and who I’ve been for years. It’s just showing another facet of this sweet, precious diamond called Dick.

[I laugh again]

It’s just another facet. It’s just an untapped market that no one knows because I’ve always hung out with musicians. Most of my friends are musicians. I don’t have many actor friends. Most of my friends are musicians and writers and then a few directors but I don’t really have a lot of actor friends, I have a handful. I might have some shows where I bring on actor friends. I was just hanging out with Natasha Lyonne and I said, “You should be on the show.” Even though it’s a music show I might bring her on because she knows bands, that’s what I could do, because actors always like to hang out with musicians and vise-versa.

CS: It seems lo-key”¦

DICK: It’s totally lo-key and not publicized. No one really knows about it. You ask me when and where I don’t even know. The times change. I don’t even know what fuckin’ satellite station it’s going to be on but I really enjoy myself. Since I’ve done hundreds and thousands of talk shows in my 20 years in doing this business professionally, I’ve done so many, that it comes naturally to me. It’s just talking on the radio and it feels so freeing kind of like taking all of your clothes off and running down the beach; to be able and go on the airwaves and just not have a clamp on my tongue. I don’t have to cater to anybody. I can say and be whatever I want. I can talk about ANYTHING and that feels REALLY good because I am so trained like a little flea in a flea circus who is underneath a glass dome. I can only jump up so high. And then you remove that glass and I am just starting to get my sea legs in this format.

I found myself tentative to use the “f” word but that only lasts 5 or 10 minutes and then I was on a roll, I was just going nuts. Then it was hard for me to go back, I was doing interviews, normal interviews, I was on Loveline shortly after that and they not only had to bleep me because I used the “f” word accidentally, but they cut my mic off for like 3, 4 or 5 minutes as a punishment. And I’m like, “You’re not punishing me. I don’t care if you cut my mic off, you’re punishing the listening audience because they can’t hear me now.” So, yeah, they cut my mic off and so Dr. Drew and Stryker were talking while I was in the corner with the dunce cap on my head”¦because I said the “f” word.

So, it’s hard to go back and forth a little bit but it’s just a skill I’m going to have to hone.

CS: And people expect a certain kind of “Dickness,” if I may say so, and”¦

DICK: Yeah! They expect a certain vulgarity, a certain clowny goofiness but, to be honest with you, my roots are in grounded subtlety. My comedy roots really, believe it or not, are in grounded, subtle, almost sweet, and precious, comedy moments that are very real. Like Bob Newhart, Shelley Berman, Mike Nichols and Elaine May. I was trained at Second City and ImprovOlympic where the motto is, “Truth in Comedy.” The comedy there was very grounded in reality.

I was just recording an episode of the Simpsons yesterday, playing myself. They said to me”¦I just have one line”¦and I just basically am Andy Dick trying to fit into the Blue Collar Comedy Tour and my line is, “Oh, I’m blue collar, I’m totally blue collar, my dad owns a shovel.” And I did it just like that. Really quiet. And they went, “Um, ok. Bigger! You can’t be too big in a cartoon.” And I’m like, “Ok. I’m blue collar. I’m TOTALLY blue collar, my dad owns a SHOVEL!”

They’re like, “Really Andy Dick it up! Andy Dick it up! Bigger!”

“I’M BLUE COLLAR. I’M TOTALLY BLUE COLLAR, MY DAD OWNS A SHOVEL!”

And they’re like, “We love it.” What happens is the media, the people, the producers, the directors, the industry, the town, the audience, pushes you, pushes you, pushes you to be bigger, bigger, bigger. It’s up to the actor or the artist to say, “You know what? This is all you’re getting. Because this is how I want to be. This is how I want the character to be. This is all you’re getting.”

And that’s why, a lot of the times, the big actors are so great”¦they’re so subtle. But sometimes it’s just because being big or being excitable is not in their repertoire. They’re just too cool for school. But, other times, it’s because they’re great actors and they’re making a conscious choice to keep it real and keep it subtle. Once “the guys upstairs” see that you can do the big stuff they don’t want you to be subtle. They just want you to be big, loud and goofy.

I was watching Robin Williams last night on Leno. He started off funny and manic and he got more and more manic until, by the end, he was screaming so much and so loud that he popped his throat. You could hear that he hurt his vocal chords.

CS: God”¦

DICK: That’s what happens. The audience laughs at your manic-ness and they’re going to stop laughing unless you up the ante and go even more crazy and that’s a trap we fall into as comedians. We’re so desperate to get that laugh that we’ll just keep screaming louder, dancing harder and faster until we’re sweating and panting with blisters on our feet and vocal chords. Yeah, it’s a problem that I have.

I want to please people so bad, and I want to get that laugh, that I keep pushing myself but I prefer the quieter, subtler, sweeter moments.

I prefer the movie SIDEWAYS. I prefer the movie LITTLE MISS SUNSHINE. I saw SIDEWAYS 10 times. I’ve seen LITTLE MISS SUNSHINE 3 times. I walked out of ANCHORMAN. I walked out on WEDDING CRASHERS. Don’t tell anybody, though, because the same producers produced EMPLOYEE OF THE MONTH. I am not a big fan of that kind of comedy. That’s something you don’t know about me. You wouldn’t think that. You think the exact opposite. It’s part of my psychoses.

CS: Seeing how your best work really came through in NewsRadio, The Ben Stiller Show, The Andy Dick show on MTV, works that allowed you to control whether you needed to be more subdued or more energetic depending on the situation, are you really going to try and stick with this mantra that “This is my art. You can take it or leave it” and not succumb to the pressures for you to “Dick it up”?

DICK: Yeah, I’m trying.

I’ve been trying and I’m going to continue to try and I think I’m just getting better at it as I get older because I’m 40 but I think the way that it’s really going to work is I’m going to have to do my own stuff. And that’s what DANNY ROANE is all about”¦even DANNY ROANE is a little crazy but there is a lot of subtlety in DANNY ROANE but I can’t, all of a sudden, just bring it all down so much”¦I have to ease people, spoon feed them a little bit, ease them back into”¦EMPLOYEE OF THE MONTH was that for me, to a point.

In fact, I read a review for EMPLOYEE OF THE MONTH where one of the critics said, “And then Andy Dick as Lon,” and in parenthesis, “(not manic for once.)” In parenthesis! I’ve got to get myself out of those fucking parenthesis.

CS: Thank you so much for your time.

DICK: Fuck you.

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October 18, 2006

Interview: Amy Sedaris

Filed under: Interviews — UncaScroogeMcD @ 6:54 am

-by Ken Plume

amysedaris5.jpgWhile most know her from her role as Jerri Blank on Comedy Central’s cult hit Strangers With Candy – or her numerous guest appearances on David Letterman and Sex and the City – friends and family know Amy Sedaris as a hostess par excellence, famed for her parties and dinners, and her fantastic home-cooked cuisine.

Seeing the simple act of entertaining guests as an art quickly atrophying in this fast-paced digital age, she’s crafted the ultimate guide to throwing your own shindigs – I Like You: Hospitality Under The Influence.

Although written with the same wit and delightfully bent perspective that informs her comedy, the book should in no way be taken as a “joke cookbook” – it’s a legitimate presentation of party suggestions (leave marbles in your medicine chest to signal the telltale sound of a nosy guest), hints (like the fact that doing dishes after a party can be a cathartic exercise), recipes (I can’t wait to try her “Crosscut Stump Stew”), and crafts (plastic googly eyes make anything fun) sure to inspire even the most slothlike of hosts and hostesses to send off some invites, fill up the ice tub, fire up the oven, and lay out the welcome mat.

As the holiday season comes swiftly upon us, we chatted with Amy (who was nestled comfortably in the apartment she shares with her pet rabbit and the ghost of her imaginary boyfriend, Ricky) about the book and throwing that “perfect party”…

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AMY’S ANSWERING MACHINE: Leave a message and I’ll never call you back.

KEN PLUME: Hey Amy, this is Ken Plume from Quick Stop Entertainment…

AMY SEDARIS: Hi! I’m here…

KP: Oh, hello…

SEDARIS: How’s it going?

KP: I’ve been devouring your book for the past couple of days…

SEDARIS: Oh, devouring’s a good way to say it.

KP: It’s quite delicious, how’s that? Continuing the metaphor, as it were. It’s one of the best books on entertaining I’ve ever read.

SEDARIS: Oh really?

KP: Well, I’m also partial, being from North Carolina.

SEDARIS: What part?

KP: From just above Wilmington…

SEDARIS: Oh, okay. Wow.

KP: So I definitely know some of the influences that you bring to the table.

SEDARIS: Oh, I bet you do!

KP: What was the impetus for putting it all down in the book? It’s obviously something that you’ve lived by for quite a few years…

SEDARIS: Well, as you know, growing up in the South you’re surrounded by that “Suthun’ Hospitality”….

KP: Oh yes…

SEDARIS: And my mom cooked every single night three different meals. And I’ve just always been interested in it, in people’s recipes, good or bad. It just says so much about a person. The more and more people I seem to meet, the consideration for that just seems to go out the window. So I just wanted to write a book about something I felt I knew a lot about, and just try to get people back into entertaining and being considerate of others.

KP: Do you think people have lost the art of entertaining?

SEDARIS: I think so. I think… well, I don’t know. Maybe it’s just because I live here in New York City and a lot of people don’t have the room for it, but I just feel like yeah, it’s all become about going to their computers or listening to music or watching TV, and less and less about having a good conversation with somebody.

KP: What I find fascinating about the book is that not only is it from the perspective of a host or hostess, but also a guest.

SEDARIS: Yes – it’s important. Because a lot of people don’t want to entertain. And they can’t. We don’t want those people to entertain. If you don’t know how to cook a roast, don’t do it. But this will teach you how to at least be a good guest, so you can guarantee a repeat invitation.

KP: When you mentioned people losing that skill within the city, particularly of putting on large gatherings – which, in the South, every gathering is a large gathering, even if it’s a family gathering….

SEDARIS: True.

KP: Do you find that your first-time guests tended to be awkward in that situation, not knowing what to do?

SEDARIS: Yeah, I’ve had some people who just don’t have a clue. Because they don’t entertain, they don’t know. And it’s not their fault, but maybe this book will just slowly, like, “Oh, I didn’t realize that. I didn’t know that so much planning went behind it.” I mean, people just don’t really realize it.

KP: What’s the most inconsiderate guest you’ve ever had?

SEDARIS: Well, I write about it in the book. The one where the girl showed up with her elderly parents and a three story chocolate cake for a Greek Easter party.

KP: That’s toward the beginning of the book, isn’t it?

SEDARIS: Yeah. That was pretty shocking to me.

KP: Is that the type of guest that doesn’t even give you a rationale behind their decision?

SEDARIS: Yeah, I didn’t even… What do you say? My mouth was wide open. Of course, it just gave me something to complain about, which is always good, but I just couldn’t believe it. And I was still serving food when she started cutting into the cake.

KP: I’ll bet you washed a lot of dishes that night.

SEDARIS: Oh yeah. Over and over again. And it’s fun with all the people there, and they’ll be like, “No it’s fine if you wanna get high or whatever…” They don’t care, but it’s, like – other people care. No one wants to get high in front of people in their early hundreds, so it makes them feel uncomfortable.

KP: Unless it’s medicinal.

SEDARIS: Yeah. I just want to be like, “Look, let me just secure the rugs. Don’t want anyone falling in here. Don’t want a law suit.”

KP: That’s one thing that will bring a party down, is liability issues. The one thing that wasn’t in your book was where to put handholds.

SEDARIS: Right! (laughing)

KP: That’ll be the book you write when you get older.

SEDARIS: Yeah, right…

KP: How To Entertain The Elderly.

SEDARIS: Yeah, it’ll just be like, “Hang on!”

KP: “Make sure you have pill dispensers. A nurse on call is always a smart move.” What, for you, would be the ultimate guest?

SEDARIS: The ultimate guest, to me, would be just someone who’s not high maintenance. Someone who knows what they’re doing, they’ve entertained before, they know when to help out. They’re watching just as much as you are, even though it’s not their party.

KP: So someone who’s flexible to the moment…

SEDARIS: Yes. They’re helping you keep the ball up, so to speak.

KP: Do you find that, over the years, you’ve been able to train people?

SEDARIS: Yes. Yeah, definitely. It’s always good to have someone be your deputy, and I have a good friend for that. She can kinda be my backup person, or I’ll be like, “Oh god, I have to go get…” and she’s like, “Don’t worry, I already did it.” Or to have a meat carver. Someone who has meat carving abilities is always good to have on hand.

KP: What’s the optimal size then for a party?

amysedaris3.jpgSEDARIS: Well, I’ve had, like, 20 people in my apartment for big events, and I’ve had just small gatherings. I can’t get any more than 20 in my apartment…

KP: Have you tried?

SEDARIS: No, not like 30. I just know my limit. Sometimes people will come and go. Some people leave and then other people would show up. So I just don’t want that, because then it just gets uncomfortable.

KP: How often would you say, within a given month, do you have a party?

SEDARIS: Well, my parties lately… when my brother lived here in New York, I had bigger parties and I had them a lot. But since he moved, I tend to have smaller gatherings where I’ll invite four or five people over, and then you usually have an activity to do. Or let’s say I’m rearranging the artwork on my wall, so they help me do that and then I make them dinner as payment. I’d say at least maybe five times a month, maybe six. I’ll just call at the last minute and say, “Hey, you wanna come over for dinner?” and I’ll throw together something.

KP: I enjoyed your suggestion in the book that, not only can you put a tip jar out, but you can also sell your unwanted items during a party. Do you find you’re making less money now that the parties are smaller?

SEDARIS: No, I just charge more. Inflation.

KP: And they accept that, like everything… like gas…

SEDARIS: People who know me know they’ve got to bring small change when they come to my house.

KP: Do you ever prorate for a certain guest that you like more than another?

SEDARIS: (laughing) Yeah, favoritism… You have to. Just be honest with them. Or, like, when I was shooting the book, I bought a time clock and I made everybody clock in and out, and then I had to turn my kitchen into a smoking area because everyone smoked but this one girl. And then I had an employee of the week, and this one girl was like, “Oh, I can’t wait to be employee of the week,” and I said, “That’ll never happen. Because we only have a smoking area because of you. There’s no way, I am telling you right now, you will never be employee of the week,” and just watched her face drop.

KP: That is so unfortunate, to just crush a dream like that.

SEDARIS: It was. Hey, you know what? It’s a tough business.

KP: That should be your next book.

SEDARIS: Yeah, Tough Business.

KP: Writing about the home workplace.

SEDARIS: (laughing)

KP: How much extra material did you have to cull from the book in the final edit?

SEDARIS: I had to lose 25 pages. So I ended up cutting the instructions from the craft section. Because I figured you could just look at it and figure it out. And then I lost a lot of recipes.

KP: But isn’t that half the fun, to look at the crafts and try and figure it out?

SEDARIS: Yeah. Especially crafts like that. Mostly they were inspired from Girl Scouts, when I was a Girl Scout. So those are just the things I’m drawn to. So yeah, you just look at it…

KP: Or when you had an art teacher who was a bit of a lush…

SEDARIS: Aren’t they all?

KP: … and would give you stuff and say just go at it.

SEDARIS: “Alright, boys and girls, wrap the bricks in shelf paper and I’ll be right back.”

KP: I thought that was brilliant. I had never seen that before I saw it in your book…

SEDARIS: Oh really? I still make those.

KP: It’s practical and it looks quite crafty-nice.

SEDARIS: Yeah, it does.

KP: But I have to admit, I’m a huge fan of the googly eyes.

SEDARIS: Yeah, me too. They’re everywhere in my apartment. Everywhere. You can put them on anything and it just brings something alive.

KP: I think I’m going to introduce my young nephew to them…

SEDARIS: How old is he?

KP: He is two-and-a-half.

SEDARIS: Yeah, because I did Letterman last week and I did a googly eye craft for him, and he just said it wouldn’t be good for small children, it could get lodged in their throat. I go, “Oh wow, that never occurred to me.”

KP: Maybe he should be a more observant father.

SEDARIS: Oh, yeah, there you go. Doo-doo-doo-doo-doo dear Dave.

KP: You just don’t leave the kid alone with the toys.

SEDARIS: Yeah, but they could put it in their mouth without you noticing… you could miss it.

KP: Then the googly eyes will be a part of them for at least 24 hours.

SEDARIS: That’s a good attitude.

KP: And it creates a lesson that they’ll have the rest of their life… “Remember the time the kid swallowed the googly eyes?” “Yes, it was all Amy Sedaris’s fault. Remember that book? We get it down every once in a while just to enjoy good times.”

SEDARIS: (laughing) Good times!

October 10, 2006

Quick Stop Video Exclusive: Terry Gilliam Takes It To the Streets

Filed under: Articles,Interviews — UncaScroogeMcD @ 7:23 pm
tideland-header.jpg

On October 4th, 2006, director Terry Gilliam took to the streets of New York to promote his new film, TIDELAND, and to seek alternative means for funding independent film…

Tideland opens this Friday, October 13th, at the IFC center in downtown New York.

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DOWNLOAD Large Video (55.5 MB)
DOWNLOAD Small Video (12.3 MB)
WATCH on YouTube

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Also, be sure to check out our QuickCast interviews with Terry HERE.

gilliam2006-10-10.jpg

October 5, 2006

Interview: James Urbaniak

Filed under: Interviews — UncaScroogeMcD @ 7:19 am

-by Ken Plume

urbaniak2006-10-05 01.jpgWith the first of the 2-part season finale of The Venture Bros. airing this Sunday Evening (October 8th) at 10:30pm on adult swim, we thought now would be the perfect time to run our in-depth interview with James Urbaniak – better known to fans as Dr. Thaddeus “Rusty” Venture.

He’s also the voice of Rusty’s brother, Jonas, Jr., and the villainous Phantom Limb.

An OBIE Award-winning stage actor, cinephile’s will recognize him from Hal Hartley’s Henry Fool and the upcoming Fay Grim – not to mention dozens of other roles, including Robert Crumb in American Splendor.

On the small screen, he’s currently starring as the murderous “Accountant” on NBC’s Kidnapped, airing at 10pm on Wednesdays.

You can read his actor-y blog at http://urbaniak.livejournal.com/

Let’s say we get this show on the road…

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KEN PLUME: I’ve very much been looking forward to speaking with you. Especially discussing the picture that’s been painted of you by Jackson (Publick) and Doc (Hammer).

JAMES URBANIAK: The what?

KP: The picture that has been painted of you by them.

URBANIAK: I’m not aware of that.

KP: It’s mostly complimentary.

URBANIAK: Does it hang in the AstroBase?

KP: Yes. Doc paints it in his free time.

URBANIAK: I haven’t seen the painting. I didn’t even know it existed. Is it one of his detailed portraits?

KP: Well, you’re wearing lingerie.

URBANIAK: Right.

KP: One of his frillier choices.

URBANIAK: Yes. He just put my face over the girl’s body.

KP: It’s really how he sees you.

URBANIAK: Yes (laughing). He sees everybody that way.

KP: But no, it’s quite flattering and you have the most provocative come hither look.

URBANIAK: Well, I can’t wait. Are you joking or are you serious?

KP: I can’t believe you think I’m actually serious about that.

URBANIAK: No, I – you’re saying there’s a painting of me that Doc made. I wouldn’t be surprised if they had actually done that.

KP: That’ll be for the DVD cover art.

URBANIAK: I wouldn’t think it would be a detailed portrait, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they’d rigged up a cartoon…

KP: (laughing)

URBANIAK: That’s what I thought you meant.

KP: No. They had painted a portrait through words of what it’s like to work with you.

URBANIAK: Oh, I see…

KP: But naturally I fell into the pitfall of not thinking about exactly how I was saying it – since Doc is a painter, I should have been more clear…

URBANIAK: It’s a late hour and I start to get tired…

KP: Well, that’s good. It means you’ll be more free in revealing everything.

URBANIAK: Got it.

KP: Tell me everything about Hal Hartley.

URBANIAK: Yeah. (laughing)

KP: So if we were to go back, you were born in New Jersey, correct?

URBANIAK: I sure was.

KP: Would you say that there were any inclinations toward this sort of actorly path, or were there other things that held your attention earlier on?

URBANIAK: Well, when I was a kid I always enjoyed performing, like in school, and when I was in elementary school I was always sort of picked to be in, you know, school plays and… I remember, like, third grade, fourth grade and fifth grade, all those years in a row the teachers would spend part of the day having us perform little sketches and plays that we would write and perform. And I really loved doing that sort of stuff, and I was always picked to be in everyone’s shows.

KP: What’s the earliest one you can remember?

URBANIAK: I remember writing a puppet show that I did with my friend Roger Stein in, I think, the third grade. And it was sketch, and it was two sock puppets… actually, it was a sock puppet who won the lottery. It was a very short play. I was the puppet, and my friend read the radio announcer who was announcing the winning lottery ticket. And the sketch was that I talked about how I bought a lottery ticket and they were gonna announce the winner, and then my friend said, “And the winning number of the lottery is, 1, 7, 8, 5, 3, 4, 7, 2, 1, 8, 9…” and it just went on and on for like, you know, a minute. And that was that sketch. And then later that year, Roger Stein and I, as eight year old boys are wont to do, got into a fight. And Roger said, “I can’t believe that I did all those things for you and I read all those stupid numbers in that play!”

KP: Really knows how to dig the knife in…

URBANIAK: Yeah.

KP: Was that a template for other creative battles you would have as a professional actor?

URBANIAK: (laughing) Exactly! I spent three years within the 70s in these elementary school classes writing and performing these little skits. I later realized that not every school system in America did that, but I just kinda worked out, and it was something I always enjoyed. No one in my family was in show business or anything.

KP: How would the kids respond to the sketches?

URBANIAK: They were very successful. It was a kind of a weirdly formative time for me, because it was a really early time just kind of creating stuff and performing.

KP: And how would you respond to the audience reaction?

URBANIAK: I would get all jazzed and, you know, excited. A major event in my life was in the fourth grade. I tell this story to many friends, but I think it’s the first time I’ve talked about it in an interview.

KP: I could be a friend.

URBANIAK: It was the… was it fourth grade? I think it was fourth grade. Yes. We were gonna do a school… the class was gonna do a play. And the play was called “Penelope’s Perilous Predicament.” And it was a published children’s play about a girl who was kidnapped by Martians and essentially sold into white slavery on Mars.

KP: Oh, lovely.

URBANIAK: Yeah.

KP: Very progressive school.

URBANIAK: (laughing) Well, she’s basically kidnapped by Martians and then becomes a servant on Mars, and then her family finds her and she comes home.

KP: Gotta love those elementary school allegories.

URBANIAK: Yeah. And I was very excited about auditioning for it, because I knew I was a good little actor. On the day of the auditions I got sick, and I… hold on… I gotta tell my wife I’m telling the fourth grade play story. (laughing) She just said, “Oh my god.”

KP: Tell her that’s gonna be part of the interview.

URBANIAK: So… uh… he forced it out of me….

KP: Yeah!

URBANIAK: So, I got sick and I missed the audition. And I was crushed. And I ended up getting a, you know, a part sort of as a supernumerary in the background.

KP: A Martian tree?

URBANIAK: Yeah, a Martian with no lines who just stood there. Well, I resigned myself to that. We rehearsed the play. I was still very excited about being in the play, even though I had no lines. And the teacher knew I was a good little actor, so she assigned understudy parts, and I… now, I understudied one of the lead guys. And then I also was given the job of doing the announcements in the beginning. “Parents, teachers…” – you know, “fellow students, welcome to the play.”

KP: Friends, Romans…

urbaniak2006-10-05 02.jpgURBANIAK: So, I was really excited about the play. And I was so excited that I memorized the entire play. I memorized the lines I was understudying, but I just couldn’t help it. I learned the whole play. And I remember being at recess reciting it to friends of mine, the entire play. And I understudied a kid named David Briman, who played one of the main characters. There was also a kid in the play named Mark, who was kind of a weird kid who had a sty in his eye – he had this red mark in his eye – who was one of the other main characters, and his understudy was a kid who everyone felt probably wasn’t up to the job. And that kid’s name was Lance. And you could tell Lance wasn’t really into plays. He didn’t seem to really care. And I remember the day before the show someone saying to Mark, “Hey, don’t be sick tomorrow ’cause Lance is your understudy.” And the next day, I came into school and Mark was absent. And I remember a bunch of kids gathered around Lance, and Lance was reading the script, looking really uncomfortable, and kids saying, “Well, maybe your character could have a book on stage, and you can have the lines in the book.” And I said to my teacher, “I know all the lines in the play. I could do the part.” And they said, “Lance, is that okay?” and he said, “Oh yeah.” And he was really happy to be relieved of that duty, and I went on. I went on… (laughing)

KP: Lance could have won an OBIE one day.

URBANIAK: That’s right. And the next day, the kids had to draw pictures and send notes to our class, and there were all these pictures of me on stage, and kids were writing things like, “Jimmy Saves the Day.” And I told this story to a good friend of mine and every time I’m in a play or something she calls me up and says, “Jimmy saves the day.” But that was a pivotal event of my youth.

KP: Now, I want you to hand the phone to your wife and have her tell me her version of the story.

URBANIAK: (laughing) She only knows my version. So, that was kind of the pivotal… that was the highlight of my elementary school acting years. And then when I got into junior high there were a couple plays. But then in high school, I kinda lost interest in that, and I didn’t really… I was in the course of Bye Bye Birdie, freshman year, and I had a part in The Boyfriend. Two classic high school musicals. Senior year. But I didn’t really do much…

KP: But you didn’t do The Pajama Game.

URBANIAK: I didn’t do The Pajama Game. I didn’t do much in high school.

KP: Where did your interest drift during that period?

URBANIAK: In high school my interests kind of drifted all over the place. Sort of everywhere except my studies. I kinda spaced out in high school. And I kinda got into… I was never that much into comic books per se, but I was really interested in my cartooning and illustration. And it was around that time that I was thinking that might be something that I’d want to do, is actually be, like, an illustrator or cartoonist. And I got very influenced by a lot of the classic illustrators. Ralph Steadman, of course, was a big influence. And a lot of classic guys. New York illustrator guys like Arnold Roth…

KP: Was there a specific type of illustration that appealed to you… That you gravitated towards?

URBANIAK: No… You know who was also a great influence? Terry Gilliam. The Python illustrations. And I still draw cartoons to this day, and a lot of them still look like sort of Terry Gilliam drawings.

KP: Do you just draw for recreation?

URBANIAK: Yeah, just recreation.

KP: And yet you have a livejournal.

URBANIAK: I have a livejournal, yes, but I don’t have any drawings on there.

KP: But everyone else does that with a livejournal. That and poetry. Maybe you should do that for April Fools Day next year.

URBANIAK: What’s that?

KP: Just turn into your teenage livejournal.

URBANIAK: Well, I did do a post in the early days – and I started it almost a year ago. One day I did a post where I pretended to be a teenage girl. And that was a pretty successful entry.

KP: Because everyone bought it.

URBANIAK: I did my research. One way to research a livejournal would be just type in a girl’s name. Like Melody.livejounal.com, and chances are you’ll get a teenager named Melody’s page. So I was just putting in random girls names to see what they were writing about. So I did this post where I wrote poetry and talked about how people shouldn’t be mean to each other.

KP: And it was the most free you’ve ever been.

URBANIAK: But hey, sometimes I write little fictional pieces and I write little political posts which are basically me saying people shouldn’t be mean to each other.

KP: Don’t take what I said as a critique. I enjoy your livejournal quite a bit.

URBANIAK: Well thanks.

KP: Particularly its insight into the life of a working actor.

URBANIAK: Yeah. That’s sort of the idea, but the life of a working actor includes a lot of down time. So there’s a lot of other stuff that goes on in a livejournal.

KP: Well, that and the fights…

URBANIAK: Oh, the Josh Emery contretemps, of course.

KP: Yes.

URBANIAK: Yeah, there are a couple of characters – we call them characters – who sort of appear and take issue with me. Josh Emery… I’ve addressed the question of whether these individuals are real people.

KP: Quite well.

URBANIAK: I kind of think of them as professional wrestlers. The professional wrestling ring, you know, a guy comes out in a big costume and another guy fights with him, and people watch something happening and they’re entertained. That’s certainly a real event. Something’s happening. If strings are being pulled behind the scenes, well, how relevant is that really?

KP: No one can say that there wasn’t some entertainment value to it.

URBANIAK: That’s right.

KP: But the candor you have in the journal is quite nice.

URBANIAK: Oh, thanks. It was influenced by Jackson Publick, really. He’s got his, you know, which I was reading and enjoyed and then one night, I just thought it’d be fun to kinda start one on my own, and I took very, very… I was very tentative in the first couple posts.

KP: As anyone sane should be.

URBANIAK: I kinda plugged it on Jackson’s blog, and pretty soon I started getting some of his readers, and eventually this thing just snowballed out of control. Now it’s just… it’s unstoppable now.

KP: Now it controls your life.

URBANIAK: In fact, yes, I got a nice plug on GreenCine Daily a couple days ago. You know that movie blog?

KP: Yes, it’s one of the ones that links to us, as well.

URBANIAK: And so I got a couple readers saying, “Hey, I saw about your blog in GreenCine,” and I didn’t even realize they plugged it. So it’s slowly spreading. Like a noxious gas.

KP: There’s plenty to find there. There’s no one that can’t say it’s not entertaining. And eventually you’ll have to check out Doc’s MySpace page.

URBANIAK: Oh, I read it fairly often. He doesn’t update very much.

KP: No. He considers it purely a parody of what you and Jackson are doing.

URBANIAK: Right. But he had his before I started mine. Mine is kind of a combination of real life events and possibly how… you know, possible fantasy sort of theatrical situations. (laughing)

KP: My main goal is to make sure that many people visit your livejournal.

URBANIAK: Oh, thank you. Well yeah, I’m just… I haven’t really done much about promoting it. I just figured, you know, it’s the old shampoo commercial. Two friends tell two friends tell two friends, and you slowly get…

KP: Washed.

URBANIAK: And there’s a little regular community of readers and it’s fun.

KP: You do know you’re this close to having a livejournal party…

URBANIAK: A livejournal party. Ah. Well, I think part of the enjoyment of that is the fact that I don’t… we don’t really know each other. All the people communicating on here.

KP: Oh, they’ll organize it…

URBANIAK: I do have a couple friends who write in.

KP: They’ll organize it themselves.

URBANIAK: (Laughing) That’s right!

KP: They’ll send out the open invitation saying, “We’re having it at the bowling alley/Chuck E. Cheese combo.”

URBANIAK: Yeah, I had a post where I talked about – you know, one or my made up posts, where I talked about VoucherCon 2006 in Las Vegas. The convention. Because, you know, the journal is called “Voucher Ankles,” and my readers are the Voucher Anklets. And so I did kinda have this little fantasy that we had had a convention in Las Vegas.

KP: I’m telling you, you’re this close to a bowling alley in Kearny…

URBANIAK: That’s right – Bowl More Lanes. We can get the New York City/Jersey reader over there.

KP: Doc will come down with his guitar.

URBANIAK: Doc will come down. Tiny Joseph, big Venture Brothers fan, lives in Brooklyn.

KP: I’m telling you, it could be the happening of a Saturday afternoon/”we gotta get back in time before curfew.”

URBANIAK: Yes, that’s right. Well, I don’t get out of the house much anymore because of my beautiful children.

KP: Well…

URBANIAK: I got a good excuse.

KP: Well you have what, 50, 60 of them on livejournal? Why do you give all the attention to your biological ones?

URBANIAK: True.

September 28, 2006

Interview: Jonathan Coulton

Filed under: Interviews — UncaScroogeMcD @ 11:36 pm

-By Ken Plume

coulton 01.jpgCyber-troubadour Jonathan Coulton is an evil, evil man who must be destroyed.

Why this call to action? Because he’s immensely talented, an amazingly gifted songwriter, and his incredible creativity both intimidates a normal, ungifted person like myself and drives me to distraction with catchy tunes and wordplay.

Damn him to hell, I can’t stop listening to his music.

That includes his first album Smoke Monkey, his first EP, Where Tradition Meets Tomorrow, and the first collection of his online songwriting experiment, Thing-a-Week.

Coulton ends his epic, year-long “Thing a Week” series of songs today with #52 (which makes sense, when you think about it).

He’s also currently criss-crossing the country with legendary raconteur, humorist, DAILY SHOW correspondent, humanitarian, and author of The Areas Of My Expertise, John Hodgman. Like The Monkees before them, they could be coming to your town.

You can purchase all of his discs, plus other merch, as well as partake of more sonic goodness at www.JonathanCoulton.com. While you’re over there, be sure to check out the other 51 Things – and pick up his CDs. And pledge your life to him. That talented bastard.

I had a chance to talk to Coulton about all things Thing, his groundbreaking use of the internet, and how the paradigm shift affects him as an artist. Of course, this was after I mistakenly called him on his cell instead of his land line, allowing me to immediately launch into completely self-effacing mode…

—————————————————————–

JONATHAN COULTON: Hello?

KEN PLUME: I did get the correct number now, right?

COULTON: Ah. There we go. Perfect.

KP: See, that’s how we start off an interview poorly on my end.

COULTON: (laughing)

KP: Can’t follow directions, probably did very little research…

COULTON: That’s right. I’ve deducted all sorts of points already.

KP: Yes. I did not know I’d be judged.

COULTON: (laughing)

KP: It’s like so many other things in my life.

COULTON: Always, always.

KP: Now I see how this is going to go…

COULTON: Yeah.

KP: Well, now that I know I’m being judged…

COULTON: You gonna rewrite some of your questions?

KP: You’re quite uh, a witty, handsome fellow.

COULTON: (laughing)

KP: And I brought an apple. Well, I’ll have to work on that, I guess.

COULTON: Yeah, do your best.

KP: Well, I’ve already completely thrown that out the window, so I’m just gonna coast now. Uh, so, as far as, have you ever… you’ve obviously read the interview that I did with John (Hodgman), so…

COULTON: I have, yes.

KP: You’ve got a sense of how poorly these things can go.

COULTON: Yes.

KP: So, really, it’s all on your shoulders.

COULTON: Yeah. No pressure though, right?

KP: No, none at all.

COULTON: Yeah.

KP: It’s not like writing a song a week for a year.

COULTON: Yeah. For instance.

KP: Which I think is a lot more pressure, when you come down to it.

COULTON: Yeah, it was a lot of pressure. There were some weeks that were absolutely excruciating. I mean, there were certainly some times when an idea would come to me early on in the week and it came together by itself and I was done by late Thursday morning, and I could relax. But then there were other weeks where Friday at 2 in the afternoon I still had no ideas. Or maybe one idea that I hated.

KP: What would you do with the hated idea? How many of those actually made it to finished form?

COULTON: Quite a few of them. I found that a pattern developed near the end of the cycle, which is that I would get an idea, and I would recognize the moment when I was at the bottom of the trough. When I hated the idea the most, when I doubted myself the most… when I was entirely confident that this would never ever become a song. And I actually learned to recognize that moment as not a true thing. Because even the ones that I hated, when I plowed through, and when I wrote them – when I forced them to become full songs – most of the time I liked them pretty well.

KP: So, was that just a feeling born of stress more than anything else?

COULTON: Yeah, I think it’s stress, and I also think it’s just the…

KP: Standard artistic doubting?

COULTON: Well yeah, it’s that, and it’s also when you see any nugget of a song out of context, it’s not that great. You know? Every piece of a song is strengthened by the rest of it, so when you have one silly line about somebody who likes to… “Mr. Fancy Pants, who always has the fanciest pants.” It’s easy to say, “Oh, well, that sucks. You can’t make anything of that.” And then a few stressful hours later, you have a song a minute and a half long.

coulton 02.jpgQS: So what would be the biggest turnaround in your feelings on a song? If you were to choose one that completely went a 180 on you?

COULTON: Good question. I have to look in my songlist. I have to go to my website. What’s my website now?

KP: I believe it’s jonathancoulton.com.

COULTON: Ah, yes, thank you. I’m going to the songs page, where I can see all of the songs that I’ve written and listened to, because I like…

KP: I believe people can even purchase CDs of those songs on that page…

COULTON: Yeah, you can even purchase CDs from there if you want to. Oh, you know what the biggest turnaround was? I know the answer to this question, actually. It was a song called “When You Go,” which was one of those things where late in the week I didn’t have very many ideas. I had one that I really liked very much, that was sort of dull and hokey, and I wrote it all the way through and that song… I love that song. And I really was, I think a very… it’s not a very upbeat song. It’s a pretty sad breakup song. And I think that the sadness within that song came from the sadness in me not being able to write anything that week.

KP: I think one of the interesting things when you look at the 52 song cycle, is that you pretty much cover just about every emotion, genre, thought…

COULTON: Well, you would have to.

KP: You would think.

COULTON: (laughing)

KP: Considering the construction process, what would be then the easiest song that came to you? One that you had done by, let’s say, Monday?

COULTON: “Shop Vac” came to me that way. “Shop Vac” was… of course, that was early on in the process. That was when I wasn’t feeling much pressure at all, but yeah, that song came to me when I was actually using a shop vac on the roof to vacuum up some leaves and mud and stuff, and just kind of whistling to myself, enjoying my time alone with my shop vac.

KP: As men are wont to do.

COULTON: As men are wont to do. And it occurred to me, “When did I become this person?” The chorus sort of popped into my head fully formed, and then the rest of it came pretty easily. That was a quick one.

KP: Where do you find inspiration comes from most – a lyric or a melody?

COULTON: I found myself writing two kinds of songs. There are ones that spring from a lyric and a character, and that moment of inspiration is usually one of these fully formed things where there’s a… I’ll get a lyric and I know who’s speaking and I know what’s motivating them and why they’re saying that. And then I can write around that character.

KP: Like a “Mr. Fancy Pants” kinda thing.

COULTON: Like “Mr. Fancy Pants,” right. Or “Shop Vac,” or also the… “Re: Your Brain” was like that, too. The chorus of that, all we want to do is eat your brain. That came to me, and I pretty much knew who was talking. I knew that it was a zombie. I was imagining a zombie saying that and I was imagining that his attitude was, “What’s the big deal? Why can’t we work this out?” And so the rest of it just became fleshing out that character.

KP: No pun intended.

COULTON: And there are other songs that are much more musically based, and a lot of these came later in the year when I had sort of run the gamut of all the robot and monkey songs I could think of.

KP: And yet you still surprised yourself.

COULTON: (laughing) And I still surprised myself. And sometimes it’s the music that… it starts with the music, and then I sort of fill in words until I get some sort of a story.

KP: Do you find yourself gravitating musically towards certain kinds of chords or progressions that are sort of an identifier of a “Jonathan Coulton song”?

COULTON: Oh, god, absolutely. I’m so sick of them. I’m so sick of writing sad songs in D, I can’t stand it.

KP: Yeah, that should be the title of an album.

COULTON: (laughing) Yeah, I have a… I’m sure it’s the same for every guitarist, but I have what I consider to be a bag of cheap tricks that I use over and over again in different ways. And certainly writing a song a week, you start to see your patterns pretty quickly. So I would find myself, to keep from writing the same song over and over again, I would have to just put a cap on the guitar and just play the same chords but way high up on the neck. Or I would have to force myself to write a song in the key of E this week. “Let’s do E. We haven’t done E in a while.” (laughing)

KP: You should have just gone for the key of life.

COULTON: Well, that’s true, that’s worked out well for someone, didn’t it?

KP: Yes, I believe it did.

COULTON: That was Stevie Wonder.

KP: You need to go that direction. Not the blind direction.

COULTON: (laughing) No, not the blind direction.

KP: But you keep vacuuming up on the roof like that who knows what could happen.

COULTON: Yes, it could fly into your eyes.

KP: Yeah, see? Have some kind of vac accident.

COULTON: (laughing)

KP: Would you say that you made any musical discoveries about yourself during the process? Like, “Oh, it surprised me that I can go to that place…”

COULTON: I did. There were a couple of songs… I feel like I’ve learned a lot about my voice through all of this. Maybe part of that is learning to record it better. I don’t know. But I feel like I’ve discovered both the highs and the lows. I discovered that I can… how to really work a slow sad song with my voice, and also how to push it a little bit and make it sound a little more… oh, I don’t know, rock ‘n’ roll. Not that I sound very rock ‘n’ roll ever, but there were a couple of songs that I surprised myself at how much more dangerous I was able to get my voice to sound than usual.

KP: So you think it was just a matter of forcing yourself to go to those places?

COULTON: Yeah, that it was really just having the confidence to sing out loud and scream when necessary, and not worry about the neighbors hearing me.

KP: Is that what had prevented you before then?

COULTON: I think that’s a lot of it. It’s very hard recording in Brooklyn in an apartment building. It’s noisy. There’s noise coming in from everywhere. And it’s also, you can hear people through the wall on the other side, so you know that when you’re singing at the top of your lungs for the fifth time in a row because you can’t get the lyric right, a line about zombies wanting to eat brains, you know that somebody on the other side of the wall is saying, “What is going on?” It can be a little intimidating.

KP: But that’s what gives New York its character.

COULTON: (laughing) That’s true. And the museums are terrific.

KP: And now they’ve lost at least one of those things.

COULTON: I know! What’s happening?

KP: It’s people who want to go off and have roofs.

COULTON: I know (laughing). Totally unreasonable.

KP: I know. You’re gonna have to someday rectify to them. Now they miss you, I’m sure.

COULTON: I’m sure, I’m sure.

KP: They’re probably visiting your site every day.

COULTON: Yeah…

KP: “Remember the zombie guy? We go visit his site.”

COULTON: (laughing)

KP: Going back to the beginning, what was the initial impetus for doing the “Thing a Week”?

COULTON: Well, you know it actually came from… when I was wrapping up my day job – I had this day job writing software – it was the last few weeks that I was working there…

KP: What kind of software were you writing?

COULTON: I wrote in Visual Basic.

KP: Oh, I remember that well.

COULTON: Microsoft SQL server. It was a database for executive recruiting firms.

KP: Wow. Accounting wasn’t good enough for you, huh?

COULTON: No, no. I’m not an accounting schmuck.

KP: No, no.

COULTON: I’m about the recruiting.

KP: Numbers – no.

COULTON: I’m a people person. Which is why I wrote software for people.

KP: Yes. For people to use to find other people.

COULTON: Yeah. And so I was near the end of my time there and everybody knew that I was going, and I was talking to a coworker of mine, and he said, “What are you gonna do?” And I said, “I don’t know. I really don’t know!” ‘Cause I didn’t have any plan at all.

KP: Starve…

COULTON: Yeah. I sort of wanted to starve and not do anything for a little while. I was leaving specifically to try to do some music, but I didn’t have any specific plan. And he said, “You should write a song a week for a year.” And I said, “Ha ha, that’s insane, you could never do that.”

KP: “And now I leave you. Good day, sir.”

COULTON: Yeah! (laughing) And I sort of laughed it off and said, “Oh that would be amazing, but I can’t imagine that I could possibly do that.” And then a few weeks after I had stopped working, I said “Well, why not try doing a song a week for a little while, and see what happens?” And it wasn’t even gonna be a song, it was gonna be maybe an idea or a little sketch. A little interesting guitar part that I liked.

KP: Hence the “Thing” part instead of…

COULTON: I didn’t want to call it “Song a week” ’cause I felt like there was too much pressure. And I think the very first one was kind of this throwaway experimental thing… and then the second one was a song, and then the third one was a song, and then it was all over. I couldn’t go back.

KP: At what point did you feel locked into it?

COULTON: You know, I think not until… not until maybe 15 songs in. When I could actually see the halfway mark to a year… when I could actually start thinking about, “Oh, I might write 20 songs, I might write 25 songs, I could write 26 songs. That’s half a year.” Then it actually felt like a possibility to me.

KP: So, in other words, when you stopped looking for an easy way out.

COULTON: Exactly. Yeah. And that’s actually when it became a lot more difficult, I think. I think I was writing a lot more easily in the beginning.

KP: When you thought you did have an exit.

COULTON: Yeah, when I thought I could stop at any time, and when nobody was really paying any attention. And then every week more and more people were listening, and every week it was closer and closer to the possibility that I could go for an entire year.

KP: Well, I mean, the beautiful thing is that you also hit this perfect zeitgeisty moment with the rise of stuff like Boing Boing and YouTube and ScreenHead, and blogs in particular, to where you have this entire sort of rapid fire network by which these things can be shared with people.

COULTON: Yeah. I wish I could say that I thought that through and that that was part of my plan, but…

KP: It’s not like you were recording stuff on an answering machine or something.

COULTON: Yeah! (laughing)

KP: I mean, that’s so low tech.

COULTON: What kind of fool would do that?

KP: It’s so twentieth century.

COULTON: Yeah, exactly. But they did that every day.

KP: Yeah, well, that’s just nuts.

COULTON: Yeah, but it was also – they were not full songs.

KP: Yeah, not until you bought the album.

COULTON: Yeah, right. Then you realized that they… (laughing)!

KP: No but you really just hit this unique pocket whereby.. I mean, look at something like the Second Life concert you did, where that wasn’t even feasible technologically a year ago.

COULTON: Yeah. No, that’s very true. And it’s funny to see… and I’m not trying to claim credit for this movement, but…

KP: No, go ahead.

COULTON: I think that independently I think a lot of people have come up with the same idea of doing any sort of art on a regular… on a suicidally regular basis. There’s people who do a painting every day.

KP: Well I’m doing “Chat a Week” now.

COULTON: You’re doing “Chat a Week”?

KP: Yeah.

COULTON: What’s that?

KP: I have no idea yet.

COULTON: Oh. Fantastic.

KP: But get back to me in a year.

COULTON: (laughing)!

KP: You can buy the book.

COULTON: I mean, you can call it web 2.0 or whatever you want to call it, but I agree that the blogging world has gotten really big in the last couple of years, and podcasting has had this meteoric rise. And I credit those guys a heck of a lot for the number of listeners that I now have. I mean, it’s basically airplay on national radio, except there’s no radio involved.

KP: Well it’s not even national, it’s international.

COULTON: It’s international, yeah.

KP: At what point did you feel the momentum being taken from something that you were having to sort of push to all of a sudden it had a life of its own?

COULTON: I think when… well, early on, “Baby Got Back” was sort of a phenomenon. That was my first real taste of what a viral hit could do. By which I mean, take down your site. And that was very exciting, but it was like crack. Because it felt so good while it was happening, and then 24 hours later it was just gone. (laughing) It was this huge spike, and then back down to the levels where I was before. And so that was my first taste. And then I think somewhere after Christmas… well, there was “Flickr,” which was the next really big hit. And that’s when I started to notice that the tone had changed a little bit, and that people were speaking of me, writing of me, as if they expected the reader to know who I was. You know what I mean?

KP: Right.

COULTON: It wasn’t like, “Here’s this guy Jonathan Coulton and here’s what he does.” It was like, “Oh, Jonathan Coulton just did this.”

KP: “Here’s his latest.”

COULTON: Right. And that’s when I started to feel like there was definitely something going on out there.

KP: How does that feel?

COULTON: It felt terrific. It really was so, so validating. That’s why it’s so hard to stop Googling yourself, because you… if you’re lucky, you come across a complete stranger who’s saying these nice things about you who thinks that you’re a famous person. And it’s really…

coulton 03.jpgQS: So what was the longest, most disturbing Googling session you’ve ever done…

COULTON: (laughing)!

KP: Because we all know that’s where it leads. Sitting there for three hours going, “Oh, I’ll go to Classmates.com. See if they…”

COULTON: Yeah. No, it’s true. Well, you know, I have a whole routine that I go through every morning, which involves pushing as many things back out of my inbox as I can. Making a list of the things I don’t get to so that I can get to them later. And then doing the same on MySpace. Getting emails, accepting friendship requests…

KP: That’s a horrible phrase when you actually think about it.

COULTON: Oh, I know. It’s gross. It’s disgusting. I hate MySpace. You know, I feel like I gotta do it. Um, and then… then I’ll go to Technocrati, see what posts have come through, and of course you know that every time I get alerted about a trackback to an entry on my site I check out the context, ’cause I have to see what they’re saying about me. So yeah, it’s easy to get lost.

KP: I often wonder in this day and age of stuff like MySpace and approving friends and Googling yourself, what would Charles Schulz have written if he had done Peanuts and Charlie Brown now…

COULTON: (laughing)!

KP: Would it be a Valentine’s Day card, or would it be, “Why haven’t you approved me?”

COULTON: (laughing)! I think you’re absolutely right. Although you know, I gotta say, I don’t know…

KP: “No one approves Charlie Brown.”

COULTON: (laughing)! No one approves Charlie Brown. “I’m not gonna approve that blockhead.”

KP: Yeah! Meanwhile, Snoopy’s friend list is stratospheric. “How do you even get a laptop up there?”

COULTON: Yeah. I don’t even know if MySpace is gonna last long enough to have that kind of cultural resonance. I mean, I guess there’s always gonna be a thing like MySpace, but I don’t know if it’s always going to be MySpace.

KP: I think it’s gonna be one of those things where eventually it’ll collapse, but the idea of it will carry forth and people will always refer to it as a MySpace kinda thing.

COULTON: Yeah, that’s probably true.

KP: There’s a chance Google could disappear.

COULTON: Yeah, sure.

KP: Remember searching with Hotbot?

COULTON: Absolutely! Nobody could imagine Hotbot ever going away.

KP: That’s the smart one. You don’t use Yahoo.

COULTON: No, Yahoo sucks.

KP: And Google, what the hell is that? Not even a word. And this is just, what, 10 years and all this has gone by the wayside?

COULTON: I know. And it’s just gonna get faster and faster until we’re all replaced by robots.

KP: I find it encouraging that when you have so many flash in the pan endeavors on the internet, that you could have the consistency for “Thing a Week” over what, in modern time, is quite a huge span – and actually build the audience and build the reputation. Now you have people waiting with baited breath as to how it’s all going to end and what you’re going to do next.

COULTON: Right. Yeah, it’s been great. I would quibble with you on the suggestion that I’ve been consistent. I certainly don’t feel like I’ve been very consistent at all.

KP: Here’s the way I look at it: in this day and age, if you’ve finished it, you’ve been consistent.

COULTON: (laughing) Right!

KP: Because look at all the abandoned husks across the net.

COULTON: It’s true.

KP: Of Danny Bonaduce and Willie Aames fan sites.

COULTON: That’s very true. Just lasting for a year doing anything is a pretty…

KP: Actually completing a stated goal…

COULTON: Yeah, that’s true. A friend of mine who’s a professor of English literature, of all things, was talking about these shows, CSI, and he said, “It’s interesting – the heroes of the stories that we’re telling ourselves now, these are people who solve these crimes by using the tools that they have in an effective way, and by going over every inch… and all they have really is competency. But that somehow has become the heroic thing to do, is to be competent.”

KP: It has elevated them above the new norm.

COULTON: Yeah. They’re the only ones that have the patience to go over a room inch by inch with an ultraviolet light looking for blood splatter.

KP: That should be your byline: “Jonathan Coulton, Competency in the Modern Age.”

COULTON: (laughing)! Yeah! I like that.

KP: That’ll be the box set.

COULTON: That’ll be the box set, right.

KP: Which you have just about enough for at this point.

COULTON: I do.

KP: Are there plans to collect all four volumes?

COULTON: I’m trying to figure out a way to do it from a manufacturing perspective. I’m going to make all four CDs, and they’ll all be available for sale separately. I’m trying to… I haven’t actually begun to investigate this in any real way, but I’d like to find a way to have a box that I can put these CDs into and that will also have enough space for… Len Peralta is the guy who has a podcasting job on radio, who’s been doing a drawing for each song. He hasn’t done them all, but he started pretty early on. And what he and I would like to do is put those into a booklet, a sort of program guide. And then put that in the box with the four CDs. I need to find somebody who will be able to make that box and… it can’t be too expensive.

KP: No. And it’ll say Born to Run on the front.

COULTON: And it’ll say Born to Run on the front. It’ll say The Beatles.

KP: The Coulton Album. Surely there must be somebody out there.

COULTON: I’m sure that there is, I just have not begun to Google it.

KP: Or there’s always Tupperware.

COULTON: That’s an interesting idea. Just get those Glad disposable Tupperware containers.

KP: Yes. In fact, the uniqueness alone might be worth it.

COULTON: Or maybe a Ziploc bag.

KP: It’s got to be with the slide zip.

COULTON: It would certainly be cheap.

KP: It would be cheap. Especially with the holiday season coming up, are there any plans for anything special along those lines? You’ll have the first two out by the end of the year, right? The first one’s out, second one’s about to be out…

COULTON: The first one is out, the second one will be available for sale in a matter of days. Numbers three and four I hope to have within a month or so. I’m trying very hard to get all four of them out in time for the holidays.

KP: So, basically, it’s the perfect gift.

COULTON: Oh, it would make such a great gift for almost anyone.

KP: And anyone who doesn’t want it as a gift can certainly find someone who would.

COULTON: Yeah. Even if you give it to somebody as a gift and they don’t like it, I’m sure they know somebody who’d like it, and they could give it to them as a gift.

KP: Yes.

COULTON: You can’t go wrong.

KP: In fact, it’s the perfect re-gift.

COULTON: It’s the perfect gift, it’s the perfect re-gift, it’s the perfect thing to give somebody just to make the guilt go away, and they can throw it in the garbage.

KP: I like that as a tag line; “Makes the guilt go away.”

COULTON: “Makes the guilt go away. Throw it in the street, I don’t care. I’ve got your money.”

KP: Yes. That’s also a good tagline.

COULTON: “I’ve got your money.” – Jonathan Coulton.

KP: Yes, in fact, all of your receipts, when people actually order the stuff, should say that.

COULTON: Right. “Thanks, sucker.”

KP: I thought that’s what the secret track is on the end of every album. That’s the backwards one.

COULTON: (laughing)!

KP: So, everything out by the end of the year. What’s your sense now, coming to a close after you’ve run this gauntlet?

COULTON: It’s very complicated. I feel very proud to have done it, and sort of amazed that I was able to do it at all. And very glad that I did it, because there are so many good songs in there that I think I never would have written otherwise. But I’m also a little afraid… I’m relieved to stop because it’s exhausting, but I’m also a little afraid to stop, because this has become my thing now. And I’m not sure exactly what I do after this. The business model such as it is, I don’t know to what extent it’s worked because I was writing a song every week. I don’t know what happens to the money and the fans and the blog links when there’s not new content every week. There certainly will be new content. I will continue to write songs, just not on a certain schedule.

KP: So you think “Thing a Fortnight”…

COULTON: I think a fortnight or maybe something every now and then.

KP: I like that title.

COULTON: Catchy.

KP: Yes.

COULTON: And explanatory.

KP: Actually kinda whimsical.

COULTON: It is a little whimsical, you’re right. And so I don’t know what exactly to do next. One of the things I would like to do is sit back and take a little break, and let whatever happens next emerge as organically as possible. That’s how I got doing the “Thing a Week” is by quitting my job without any plan and letting myself sit still for a couple of weeks.

KP: So basically just letting it gestate and emerge when it feels like it.

COULTON: Yeah, exactly.

KP: Is there any worry about taking that approach again? It’s not like you’ve emerged out of doing programming again. You essentially did what you wanted to do…

COULTON: Yeah. Yeah, I think there’s… there’s definitely a feeling like, I need to keep pushing and pushing and pushing. So yeah, it doesn’t feel 100% correct to lay off. But I may find that what comes next is actually going back and pushing and pushing again. And take a few weeks vacation and then a “Thing a Week 2.”

KP: So you’re gonna write that rock opera then, is that what you’re saying?

COULTON: Right. I’ll do the rock opera, and then I’ll do a song for every site on the internet.

KP: Or do it as a film. A modern Rocky Horror.

COULTON: Thinking of this cyclical stuff, Ze Frank’s The Show, it’s just amazing. He does that every day. Or every weekday.

KP: I can barely do a podcast every couple of weeks.

COULTON: Yeah. I have a lot of respect for that.

KP: Of course, I’m inherently lazy.

COULTON: Me too.

KP: Yes, but you still managed something.

COULTON: Yeah, but I feel like a week, you got a little leeway. You can do it on any of those five days. But every weekday it’s like, oh god, the days when you wake up and you don’t want to do anything, too bad.

KP: Yeah. But I guess that’s how normal people work.

COULTON: Maybe that’s true. Maybe it’s just you and me that have trouble.

KP: Yeah. Now I’m kinda feeling bad. Anyone reading this is gonna go, “Buncha assholes!”

COULTON: “Why don’t they just do their damn job?”

KP: “And then they complain! ‘Oooo! I don’t know if I want to work today, creating…’ “

COULTON: (laughing)! You’re right, that’s pretty loathsome…

KP: “I might just sleep in or go up and vacuum, I don’t know.”

COULTON: “Yeah, I don’t know, whatever.”

KP: “Look at a tree.”

COULTON: “Let’s see what’s on television. I’ll wait for the next thing to come to me.”

KP: “I’ve never seen this Law & Order.”

COULTON: “Oh wait, yes I have. Zzzzzz….”

KP: “Well, no Thing this week. Got some sleep.”

COULTON: “At least I made all those meatballs.”

KP: “Ran into town. Got some mail. Catching up on email.”

COULTON: You’re describing my life.

KP: “And approving friends.”

COULTON: Yeah. That’s pretty much it.

KP: “So you work, what, 12 hours a day? Oh, I’m sorry. How did you lose the arm? You think they’d have a sign. Must make the work harder, no arm and such. Have you heard my music?”

COULTON: “Check it out. Last year I worked on it pretty hard. This year, not so much.”

KP: “I got four CDs worth.”

COULTON: Yeah. “Now I’m just gonna coast.”

KP: Now I feel really guilty. Not only have I made myself feel bad, but I’ve made you feel bad.

COULTON: You’ve made me look bad, too.

KP: Yeah I kinda did that, too…

COULTON: Yeah, take out all that stuff where we bash the working man. Leave that out if you would.

KP: Yeah, well, you have association with a friend of the working man, John Hodgman.

COULTON: Yes. An interesting way to describe him, yes.

KP: Actually, you can pretty much describe him as anything.

COULTON: That’s true. He’s an expert on all things.

KP: He’s kinda like Galactus that way. I think everyone perceives John differently.

COULTON: Yeah. I would agree with you.

KP: I don’t think there’s any one true John Hodgman.

COULTON: No. It’s hard to pin him down, ’cause he’s a true chameleon.

KP: How did that association between the two of you begin?

COULTON: Well, we went to college together. We were in the same dormitory. We were friends starting freshman year, and friends all through college, and…

KP: What was he like in freshman year?

COULTON: The same. He was pretty much the same. John Hodgman has always been sort of an old man. I didn’t know him, but I understand that when he was a freshman in high school he carried a briefcase to high school.

KP: Wow.

COULTON: I know!

KP: And yet he’s not British.

COULTON: And yet he’s not British.

KP: He seems like the type that would love a dormitory type school.

COULTON: Oh, sure. He was always very well spoken and very funny and devastatingly dry. But he did have incredibly long hair.

KP: That, I can’t imagine.

COULTON: Yeah. Which he always kept in a tight little bun in the back of his head.

KP: That’s kinda disturbing me.

COULTON: Yeah, it was really weird.

KP: If you’re gonna have long hair as a man, I’ve never seen the bun look really catch on.

COULTON: No. Grow it and show it, you know?

KP: Ponytail, yes. But bun?

COULTON: Yeah, it was… he’d hate that I was saying this.

KP: I gotta know if there’s photos.

COULTON: I’m sure there are plenty of photos. But it was always incongruent, because occasionally you would see him with it down, it was like, “Wow, who are you?” Because he always seemed like the button-down smarty pants. But, of course, we’ve been great friends for a long time, and my circle of friends and loved ones here in New York contains many people that I have met through John. In fact, I’m married to a woman who went to high school with John.

KP: So, really, he’s a master matchmaker as well.

COULTON: Yeah. He’s the hub of the giant wheel on which we all spin around. My wife is saying, “No, I’m the hub.”

KP: Yeah, you’re married now. You better get it right.

COULTON: (laughing)!

KP: So in other words one day someone’s gonna construct this John Hodgman Venn diagram.

COULTON: Yeah.

KP: With John at the center.

COULTON: It’s gonna be like that Kevin Bacon game.

KP: I think it’s already the Kevin Bacon game.

COULTON: Yeah.

KP: In fact… my god… now I’m part of it.

COULTON: Yeah, except it’s just John in the center of a circle, and that circle’s in the center of another circle, and it’s just circles within circles, all the way down.

KP: It’s like the most disturbing MCI commercial ever.

COULTON: Yeah. Friends and family, and in every one of those circles is John Hodgman.

KP: Yes. “Do you know John Hodgman? Do you know THE John Hodgman?” In fact, that should be the new campaign – “Of course you know this man.”

COULTON: He needs to get an American Express ad, that’s what he needs.

KP: If they still did those.

COULTON: They should go back and do those ads just so they can give one to him.

KP: He should just do that as a viral video for the books.

COULTON: He should do it anyway and see if he can get paid after the fact.

KP: Yes. You need to suggest that to him.

COULTON: Yeah.

KP: ‘Cause he doesn’t listen to me anymore.

COULTON: No. Well, me either.

KP: How could he not listen to you? You’re going to be sharing a road trip together.

COULTON: Well, that’s true. I’m actually looking forward to this a great deal. It’s a fortuitous thing is that the song 52 is posted on Friday the 29th, as the very next day I fly to Chicago to be on tour with John for about a month. It’s like the end of the old thing, and then this great vacation around the country.

KP: Perhaps you should write a song a city, like They Might Be Giants did.

COULTON: Oh, like the Venue Songs.

KP: Yes. But for the book tour instead.

COULTON: But for the book tour, yeah. I’m really looking forward to it. It’s always fun…

KP: See, that’s the sad thing, and I just did it to you. Be brutally honest – does it irritate you a little bit that, from now on, people are gonna be asking you, “So what’s the next “Thing a Whatever”?

COULTON: Yeah, well, I am a little worried about that.

KP: And I’m guilty of it, and I apologize.

COULTON: No, not at all. I think that it’s only natural to ask that kind of question. I wish that I did have another fantastic project to do, but I don’t have one yet. I may come up with one, but we’ll see. I might just sink into obscurity.

KP: No.

COULTON: I don’t know.

KP: No… Websites never die.

COULTON: I guess that’s true.

KP: You might not produce a single new thing, but all those songs will still be out there.

COULTON: That’s true.

KP: If Geocities sites can still be out there…

COULTON: Right.

KP: Your stuff will still be around in perpetuity. Or at least the cyber equivalent of it.

COULTON: One of the benefits of being something of a small fish is that there are always new fans. I think somebody like U2, they’re not gonna get a lot of new fans over the next year. Maybe they are, but not as many as I am. I’ve got nothing but new fans.

KP: It’s also the type of thing that, again, utilizing the technology the way it is, all someone has to do is drop an email or an IM to somebody and say, “Hey, check this out.”

COULTON: Exactly.

coulton 04.jpgQS: Are you going to continue to archive the “Thing a Week” songs as free downloads, or are you going to take them down as the CDs go up?

COULTON: I think I’ll probably leave them up there. I can’t see much of a reason to take them down. I do believe that having this stuff available for free – optionally, you can buy it if you want. I think that that has certainly helped me, and the whole creative commons license, you know, it’s licensed in such a way that you can, in fact, put it on a mix CD and send it to your friends. And I wish you would. I wish every one of my fans would do that right now. Then I would have almost twice as many fans. Presumably there would be some people who didn’t like it.

KP: Yeah, but that’s one of the main points of a mix CD – just to expose someone to something.

COULTON: Exactly. You can pass that one. But I think that there’s no question in my mind that the place that I’m in, being an independent musician and not having a huge marketing engine behind me, having that stuff available so that people can listen is just incredibly valuable to me.

KP: Well, it seems also in this day and age, and maybe you’ve experienced this, that the need for something like a publicist has been greatly reduced.

COULTON: Yeah.

KP: Because you have a lot more one-on-one interaction, and people seek you out who actually want to do features.

COULTON: Yeah.

KP: So you know that whoever contacts you is going to want to definitely do something with you.

COULTON: Right, exactly. I think a lot of the traditional pieces of the puzzle are no longer…or less necessary. I’ve had some discussions with some label type of people here and there… or not label people, but people in traditional parts of the industry. And I always come away from it… you know, I’m always excited by hearing from somebody official, you know?

KP: Right.

COULTON: That’s always nice, just for the establishment to say, “Oh, you’re doing good stuff, let’s talk,” you know? But then I always come away from it saying, “Well, huh, I wonder if doing something official like this would benefit me, or if it would be worse.”

KP: Do you find that you crave that sort of traditional legitimization?

COULTON: I do. I do. I crave that kind of validation from the establishment.

KP: Because I noticed the link on your website, that if you’re someone official, please contact me.

COULTON: Yeah (laughing)! Yeah.

KP: Which I’m surprised doesn’t flash or something.

COULTON: (laughing)! Well I think it’s still… I’m torn about what the role of those people is going to be. I don’t know. I think it’s all still in flux.

KP: It seems like it’s now come down to almost adding an unnecessary middle man.

COULTON: Yeah.

KP: Your interaction with the public is right there now for you.

COULTON: Yeah, it’s true. And so the question is, how much value do you actually get from a middle man?

KP: Which is also based on a traditional retail model, where labels were needed get the record in the stores …

COULTON: Right.

KP: When now there’s no need for bricks and mortar.

COULTON: Yeah. I make so much more money off the MP3s than I do off the CDs. An enormous amount. Much more. So yeah, the idea of moving CDs is not as important. But at the same time, having somebody who can be a booking agent, and call venues and set that up and negotiate that stuff – you know, that’s worth something to me. I’m not particularly interested in spending my time on the phone and talking about money and stuff.

KP: Right.

COULTON: And I also think radio is still pretty important. It’s very hard to get airplay on the actual radio without this crazy direct cold-calling thing. You have to send your CD out and follow up, and, “Have you played it? Are you gonna play it?” You know you have to really push and push and push. Or pay somebody to play it. That’s done all the time as well. I think there are still ways that the establishment can benefit an artist. I haven’t figured out exactly what I want my relationship to be with that part of the business, but luckily it hasn’t come up yet.

KP: Do you feel that need for validation has lessened over time, or is it still pretty constant?

COULTON: Well, it’s pretty deep rooted. You know, it’s like wanting a parent to love you. It’s hard to give it up. (laughing) I certainly have started to think, “Oh wow, maybe this way of doing things actually can work.”

KP: You’re not on a rivet gang.

COULTON: Well, it’s true. And in some parts of the country, I’d be making a decent living. I chose to live in one of the most expensive cities in the country. I don’t know why I did that, but…

KP: Particularly doing what is essentially an internet-based thing. You could live anywhere.

COULTON: I could live in a hut on the top of a mountain somewhere. Well, I’d need broadband.

KP: Yes, and approval from your wife.

COULTON: (laughing)! But yeah, it’s true, I could do this anywhere. As I say, if it were a different part of the country, it’d be a pretty good living.

KP: But it’s not bad.

COULTON: No, it’s not bad at all. I have nothing to complain about, believe me.

KP: I mean, you’re not in the apartment building.

COULTON: That’s right.

KP: If you were to identify a handful of goals besides the mainstream validation, is there anything that’s left unfulfilled for you right now that you’re still chasing down?

COULTON: Uh… uh… huh. That’s a good question. I would like… I would like to be right. I would like to be undeniably correct about the idea that giving music away like this is beneficial. One of the reasons that I did it is I was… I saw Larry Lessig speak about Creative Commons. He was the founder of Creative Commons. And it was the most moving Power Point slideshow I’d ever seen. I was really just so jazzed about the idea, and it was such a beautiful idea, that I really wanted to be part of that change. I felt the need to be a kind of pioneer. I don’t know that I am a pioneer. There are plenty of people who have been doing this long before I’d even heard of it, but I like the idea that I’m part of something new, and I want for that new thing to continue being the new thing.

KP: Why do you believe that it has worked? If you’re looking for proof that it has, why do you believe it hasn’t? What in your experience so far gives you doubt?

COULTON: Well, I think it has worked for me. Maybe it’s just my own self doubt. I think the place that I’ve gotten to is pretty amazing, given the amount of work I actually did. I think the business model has shown itself to be pretty effective.

KP: What do you mean by the work you actually did?

COULTON: Well, I mean, you know, I didn’t do all this traditional knocking on doors and…

KP: Yeah, but the fact is that when you are a creative person and your endeavors are creative, then the measure of the creativity is in the output.

COULTON: Right.

KP: And by any stretch of the imagination… I mean, there are some bands and artists that can’t get an album out in a year, let alone 52 songs…

COULTON: Sure.

KP: … plus already having an album and an EP in a catalogue.

COULTON: Yeah. When I say work, I’m talking more about phone calls, live shows, sending CDs. Trying to get publicity, that sort of thing.

KP: But you also had a concert recently that just sprung up practically out of nowhere that surprised you, didn’t it?

COULTON: It did, yeah. That was really nice.

KP: Was it Seattle?

COULTON: Seattle, yeah. I was going to Seattle to do something with John for Bumbershoot, and at the last minute I discovered that I was actually gonna be there for the whole weekend. I thought that I was gonna come back to the east coast, but that fell through, and so on Wednesday I posted on my site, “Hey, if anybody can find me a venue that’s open on Saturday night, I’ll play it,” and several people came back to me with several different options, and they had already called the booking people and said, Yeah, they’d love to have you play, just give ’em a call,” you know? And so I picked one of them, and decided to do it there, and it was a packed house. It was great. It was like 80 people there.

KP: So, then, what makes you think that the process isn’t working?

COULTON: It just needs to be more overwhelming. I need to have overwhelming evidence. That’s what it is. I want to be able to show these statistics to somebody, and have them go, “Oh my god. We were so wrong.”

KP: So, then, why don’t you do a city experiment? Look at what your open days are, pick a handful of cities, and do the same experiment with those cities?

COULTON: That’s one of the things I’d like to try, and actually, as I’m going on this tour with John Hodgman over the next month, I’m setting up shows in a few cities that I’ll be in anyway, and I’m doing that based on this site called Eventful.com, which is where people can go and sign up to indicate that they would like to see me perform a show in their city.

KP: And there’s a link off your site to that.

COULTON: There’s a link off my site for that, right.

KP: I believe it’s the “dance, monkey” link.

COULTON: The “dance, monkey” link, that’s right. And so I’m gonna pick the biggest cities, or the cities with the most number of demands, and when the schedule works out and when I can find a place to play, I’ll play there. And yeah, I want to continue that experiment and see if that can continue to be as successful as it was in Seattle. Because that’s the other thing, is I feel like, you know, I’ve only been attacking one angle, and that is the music distribution side, and sort of this viral promotion. But I think there’s also room for this same kind of model, a web 2.0 model if you will, in the area of live performance.

KP: I think it takes the guessing game out of a traditional tour.

COULTON: Yeah. Absolutely. And it’s like anything else, Metcalfe’s Law, the value of the network increases exponentially with the number of users, or something?

KP: I obviously stopped at the Peter Principle.

COULTON: The more people that actually use this model, the more valuable it becomes. If venues know that they can depend on that number translating into actual…

KP: They’re not dealing with empty seats on a night…

COULTON: Right. ‘Cause that’s the whole thing, it’s convincing a venue who’s never heard of you that you’re actually gonna be able to put asses in seats.

KP: Right.

COULTON: And so, you know, suddenly if the venue believes in it, and if the fans believe in it, and if the artists believe in it, then suddenly it’s real.

KP: Have you ever gone to the UK to do any shows?

COULTON: No I haven’t. There’s a fan of mine who I’ve never met who actually started a website called the Jonathan Coulton Project, which is dedicated to collecting and posting music videos for my songs. And he lives in the UK, and he has been trying to set up a tour in November for me. I’m not sure it’s gonna come through.

[Interviewer’s Note: What followed was a long exchange during which I discovered that Jonathan did not know who Neil Innes – the songwriter behind the Rutles, member of the Bonzo Dog Band, and tunesmith of many a Monty Python song – was… I was shocked.]

COULTON: Nope.

KP: Oh, come on!

COULTON: I don’t know! I’ve been writing a song a week for a year.

KP: You make it sound like a hermitage!

COULTON: It is! It’s terrible! So glad it’s over.

KP: Your musical monastery.

COULTON: That’s right. Only listening to my own music.

KP: Yes.

COULTON: And Cookie Monster singing “C is for Cookie.”

KP: How could you not?

COULTON: Yeah.

KP: Where’s your cover of that?

COULTON: Yeah (laughing)! I kind of wanted to do Mr. Rogers’ “You are Special.”

KP: Oh, that would be beautiful.

COULTON: I love that song.

KP: So have you had any thoughts whatsoever as to what immediately will follow the end of “Thing”? I mean, what do you think of the people going, “Well, we wanted you to end with one of your original songs for #52 instead of a cover…”?

COULTON: I say to those people, “Why don’t you write a song a week for a year, and then see if you can finish with an original song. And then get back to me.”

KP: It wasn’t a criticism as much as a hope, in that people thought it would be more poignant.

COULTON: You know, it would be, but it also… I can’t… I just can’t imagine it not being sort of a let down. For me, anyway. And it would just be so hard to do. I had such a hard time writing this last one because I knew that it was going to be the last original song of “Thing a Week.”

KP: And yet you couldn’t tell. I have to admit, it seemed pretty effortless, and is actually a very nice tune. So I could not tell the blood and sweat that went into it.

COULTON: Oh, thank you for saying that. That’s nice of you. It turned out okay, but it was really… it was pretty hard. And it was just the pressure of knowing it was the last one that… you know, it’s like, whenever you look at a series of things, you’re gonna look at the first one and the last one.

KP: Do you see a progression between the first and the last you’ve done? If you look at week one and then week 51?

COULTON: Yeah, I do. I feel like a very different songwriter from when I started. It’s hard to put my finger on how exactly.

KP: Would you characterize it as better?

COULTON: I would characterize it as better. I’ve gotten better in a number of places. I feel like I’m playing the guitar better, I feel like I’m singing better. I’m much better at recording things than I was when I started. The production and mixing has gotten better. And I’m also better at… I feel… I don’t want to sound too high-falutin’, but I feel like a better craftsman. I feel like I’ve sort of gotten the handle on some of my skills that I didn’t have before. And that now I know that if I need to I can sit down and actually make a song out of nothing. Whereas I think when I started, I was used to just waiting for things to happen.

KP: So at what point are you doing tune for hire?

COULTON: (laughing)! I don’t know about that. That’s even more pressure.

KP: “Hundred bucks, I’ll walk away and give you a thirty second tune.”

COULTON: I just set up a booth at a county fair.

KP: Yes, yes. That’d be perfect.

COULTON: Yes. Come back in an hour, I’ll have a thirty second song for you.

KP: Yes. “No change.”

COULTON: Yeah, no change.

KP: “Oh dangit, the musician’s gone…”

COULTON: “I was gonna buy a song…”

KP: “Time for skee ball.”

COULTON: “Ah, he’ll be back.”

KP: A hundred bucks worth of skee ball. That kid could have walked away with a tune.

COULTON: That’s right. Oh well.

KP: And now it’s just disappointment in his heart.

COULTON: Now it’s just 25 or 30 tickets and a cheap plastic ring.

KP: That’s an heirloom.

COULTON: If you take care of it.

KP: Pass that down to your kids. What are you gonna do with a song? A song that’s all written in D.

COULTON: Yeah. The same boring crap.

KP: “What the hell’s all this about a robot? I wanted to be about my girlfriend.”

COULTON: (laughing)! “Dude, it is about your girlfriend. It’s deep, it’s deep.”

KP: Yes, you gotta look for the layers.

COULTON: Right.

KP: It’s all about layers.

COULTON: It’s a metaphor.

KP: “No refunds. Did you see that sign?”

COULTON: Yeah, “No refunds. Get out of here.”

KP: It’s right below “No change.” So, I mean, overall – what’s your overriding emotion? Accomplishment, sadness…

COULTON: Accomplishment, I would say. It’s a combination of the pride of accomplishment and the relief of not having to do it anymore (laughing)! I’m going to be very happy to have a few weeks where I don’t have to have a new song on Friday. It’s just gonna be nice not to have it hanging over my head. I also am very proud of this work. I think there are a lot of great songs in there.

KP: I was listening to the entire lot of them over the weekend…

COULTON: It’s a lot of music.

KP: It is a lot of music. It’s a lot of music to do work by.

COULTON: (laughing)!

KP: I mean that in a good way!

COULTON: Oh, thanks.

KP: You know, there’s music that you don’t want to do work by.

COULTON: Right, right.

KP: But this was music that you could actually… there’s nothing I skipped, let’s put it that way.

COULTON: No, I understand.

KP: Which coming from someone who’s skip-happy and has 70,000 songs sitting here…

COULTON: Yeah, it’s a huge compliment.

KP: Yeah. I could have easily have turned on a George Harrison tune, maybe some Paul Simon.

COULTON: Sure.

KP: AC/DC. Well, probably not. Probably some Simon & Garfunkel. So no, there were other options there.

COULTON: These are all my niggas…

KP: Yes, your peeps.

COULTON: My peeps.

KP: Your posse.

COULTON: Yeah.

KP: Your songsmithing posse.

COULTON: Yeah.

KP: We’ll have to work a better terminology for all this. You know, for when you have that big charity concert, or one of those horrible middle-of-the-night jam sessions…

COULTON: Oh god.

KP: Where everyone gets together and fights for dominance.

COULTON: Yeah, where there’s like eight guitars on stage at the same time.

KP: 14 drummers.

COULTON: Yes.

KP: And Ringo.

COULTON: Right! (laughing) Poor Ringo.

KP: Who I hear is doing “Snare a week.”

COULTON: (laughing)!

KP: Really, I think you’ve started a trend.

COULTON: I would be thrilled if a real rock star did a weekly song. It would be amazing!

KP: I will make you a gentleman’s bet – a single dollar – that within the next, let’s say… wanna go three or six months? Your choice.

COULTON: Let’s do six. ‘Cause I’d like you to win.

KP: Within six months, that will happen.

COULTON: Alright.

KP: You will have a major person step forth, and claim the idea as their own.

COULTON: (laughing)!

KP: In international press.

COULTON: It could be.

KP: And that man will be Elton John.

COULTON: (laughing)!

KP: And it’s all gonna be versions of “Candle in the Wind.”

COULTON: (laughing)!

KP: So, a gentleman’s bet.

COULTON: Gentleman’s bet, alright, you’re on.

KP: And if I lose, I will Paypal it to you instantly.

COULTON: You can send me a dollar.

KP: And if I win, I want some kind of elaborate design on mine. And a signature so I can frame it on my wall of shameful deeds.

COULTON: You got it. You’re on.

KP: So was the interview painful?

COULTON: Uh, no, it was not very painful at all.

KP: Was it what you were expecting?

COULTON: I can’t remember a single thing we talked about.

coulton 05.jpgQS: Even better. Because I honestly wasn’t listening to you.

COULTON: Good, good, That’s a relief. I don’t think I said anything. Did I?

KP: No. I think at one point you did pretty much insult just about every single race there was.

COULTON: That’s fine, I do that from time to time.

KP: But hey, they’re fine with it.

COULTON: Hey, I’m just bein’ real, man.

KP: It’s all about people living together.

COULTON: Yeah.

KP: And nobody’s gonna read this anyway. So, really, you’re not sticking your neck out.

COULTON: Right, right.

KP: Do you want to say anything else about economic policy or the war?

COULTON: Um, no thank you. No thank you to the war, and no thank you to the economic policy.

KP: You know, all criticism in this country should take a more gentlemanly approach like that.

COULTON: Yeah!

KP: “No thank you.”

COULTON: “No thank you.”

KP: No “War is bad,” or “Stop the war” – just, “No thank you.”

COULTON: “No thank you, we would not like to go.” That’s what they should have said about Vietnam.

KP: Or, “I’ve had my fill.” No one uses that phrase anymore.

COULTON: (laughing) I’ve had my fill.

KP: It’s the kind of thing you should say with white gloves on.

COULTON: “I don’t care for it.”

KP: Yes. “It’s not my cup of tea.”

COULTON: Right.

KP: Another phrase that’s fallen into disuse. You know, if we ever let this into John’s hands, they’d be full chapters in his book.

COULTON: Oh, that’s true. Well, they will be anyway, even if we don’t tell him about it.

KP: Because the other thing is, he knows all.

COULTON: Yeah, that’s true.

KP: You know, inclosing, you really should just throw down the gauntlet to everyone else, and have them do a “Thing a Week.” Everyone else in the world.

COULTON: Yeah.

KP: “Hey. Bring it. I brought it. A year.”

COULTON: “Shut the fuck up, motherfuckers.”

KP: “I did a year of bringing the shit. What are you bringing?”

COULTON: Right.

KP: “Show me.”

COULTON: Give me something.

KP: “Justify your existence to me now.”

COULTON: Do it for two weeks. Do it for one.

KP: Do a thing, period.

COULTON: Yeah! (laughing)!

KP: That should be your drive for, like, the nation’s children.

COULTON: Get everybody to do a thing a week?

KP: Yes. Or just a thing, period.

COULTON: Just a thing, period… Yeah.

KP: “Jonathan Coulton’s Do Something.”

COULTON: Do Something.

KP: That’s a campaign that could take off. You could be on the Today Show, on CNN…

COULTON: Yep.

KP: “So how’d this all start?” “Oh, I did this music thing and it’s like, you know what? Other people should do things.”

COULTON: Right.

KP: “You know, the people are just sitting there doing nothing.”

COULTON: Just like that Pay it Forward movie.

KP: Yes, exactly. It can be just as treacly as that.

COULTON: My fingers crossed.

KP: And Haley Joel Osment can actually work with you as part of his work release.

COULTON: Oh, god bless that sweet beautiful boy.

KP: Yes. And the telephone pole that took him out. I didn’t say that. I’m sorry. It was actually the alcohol that took him out. The telephone pole had nothing to do with it.

COULTON: Yeah yeah. An innocent bystander.

KP: So I guess I’ll be seeing you sometime next month.

COULTON: Yeah. I’m back literally the 31st…

KP: Are you in a neighborhood now? Are you going to be doing the whole Halloween thing?

COULTON: Well, we’re in Park Slope, so there’s actually a Halloween parade that goes on here. So yeah, there may be some festivities happening.

KP: You’ll be the only guy giving out songs to kids.

COULTON: Yeah, right? “Hey kid, you like monkeys?”

KP: A little CDR to each of them. “Yeah, put this up on your MySpace.”

COULTON: “Link back to me, okay kid?”

KP: “I know you got ’em. And approve me, for chrissakes.”

COULTON: “Thanks for the add.”

KP: Well listen, it’s been a real joy talking to you.

COULTON: Well, it’s been fun. I certainly appreciate the willingness to say important things about me on your important website.

KP: Well I’m all about lies.

COULTON: (laughing)!

KP: Seriously, though, I would not have done it unless I actually wanted to feature you and get the word out.

COULTON: That’s very nice.

KP: And did fully respect and get a kick out of the music.

COULTON: Well that’s good.

KP: So know that I don’t feature people that I dislike.

COULTON: That’s even better. 100%.

KP: So yes, your songs are in full rotation, and I hope that you get something planned for the future. Because I can only listen to this stuff so much.

COULTON: You’re gonna need another 52 songs pretty soon.

KP: Yes, I need that sequel to “Re: Your Brains.” Like Harry Chapin did with “Taxi.”

COULTON: Oh god. Oh god.

KP: You know, revisit it a couple of hours down the line.

COULTON: Yeah, just see what happens.

KP: Yeah, why not? Some kind of post-apocalyptic, Omega Man kinda thing.

COULTON: Yeah.

KP: You know, he set up a house, and yet his coworker’s still coming after him. Every once in a while he’ll see him outside the gate when he’s up there shop vaccing.

COULTON: Yeah. Or maybe the tables have turned.

KP: You know, maybe the tables have turned.

COULTON: Maybe he’s got the zombie captive now.

KP: Yes, so actually it’s a memo replying to the reply.

COULTON: Yeah. “Re: Re: Your Brain.”

KP: Yes!

COULTON: Song #53.

KP: Yeah, I’ll pay you a dollar.

September 13, 2006

Interview: John Hodgman

Filed under: Interviews — UncaScroogeMcD @ 12:37 am

-by Ken Plume 

hodgman-01.jpgOnce in a generation, a humorist will step forward whose thinking is so uniquely, sublimely outside of the box that a new box must be hastily constructed – usually out of found materials, since the process must be undertaken with incredible speed or risk losing so gossamer a genius. In this generation, that freak of nature is named John Hodgman, and he has written a book called The Areas Of My Expertise.

Mr. Hodgman is a man of letters (26, to be exact – and he used every last one of them to write this book) and a current guest correspondent on The Daily Show – his past is shrouded in mystery, though it may have involved editing, agenting, writing, and constructing the world’s largest popsicle castle.

Presented in the form of an ersatz almanac, his book is a hilarious journey into the secret Hobo culture (and the list of 700 Hobo names), the American presidents who had hooks for hands, plus little known facts about the 51 U.S. States, Lycanthropic Transformation Timetables (very important), and much, much more. Hodgman writes in an easily accessible, quite matter-of-fact style about matters most surreal – yet disturbingly plausible. Now that it’s available in a newly expanded paperback edition and audiobook form, you have absolutely no excuse not to pick it up. Mr. Hodgman’s family, and his myriad creditors, will thank you.

He is also currently on tour, accompanied by cyber-troubadour Jonathan Coulton. Like The Monkees before them, they could be coming to your town – check for dates at the official website, www.areasofmyexpertise.com.

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JOHN HODGMAN: So how are you?

KEN PLUME: I’m doing quite well.  I keep hearing all these wonderful things about you from all different contacts I have within the industry.

HODGMAN: Oh, that’s very nice to hear.  Glad that’s happening.

KP: So, I can either start with a serious question or an even more serious question.

HODGMAN: I think you should pick the one that you most want the answer to.

KP: Should I be afraid of the hobos, and where are they now?

HODGMAN: Is that the serious question or the more serious question?

KP: I’m really not sure anymore.  I think it’s the more serious question in this day and age.

hodgman-02.jpgHODGMAN: Well, as you may know, there are still people in the world who ride the rails, and ride box cars… Emulate the hobo lifestyle as it was sort of defined in the early 20th century.  But these people are hobo emulators – what we call in the hobo observation business “fauxbos” – instead of the true hobos, who left after 1941.  Some believe that, after Pearl Harbor, they gave up their wandering ways and joined the fight against our common enemy, Europe.  Others believe that they went to another planet or another dimension. Others think they just simply went underground and are waiting to come back.  But that’s not true.  Most historians agree that they probably went to another planet.

KP: So they were like the Heaven’s Gate of happy wanderers.

HODGMAN: Yes, but with success.

KP: But will they return?  Or have they abandoned us?

HODGMAN: Well, the point of the hobos in my book is that they are unknowable and simply… they represented a sort of subculture that is so far out of the mainstream that they are not understandable to civilized humans like you and me.  And so what they might choose to do and what they might not choose to do, it’s really a question that’s impossible to answer.  Should we fear them?  Well, you know, I would exercise caution if you were to go back in time and see one. Or if they were to come back.  You know, a hobo might just as soon sit and stare at you for several hours, or make you a hobo soup out of old soup that they collected for many months. Or they might try to stab you with a needle.

KP: So a hobo is just like my grandmother.

HODGMAN: (laughing) Well, I didn’t want to get into your grandmother, but you know, it’s the elephant in the room.  We might as well talk about it.

KP: Yes, well, I’m glad that you’re bringing up all kinds of bad memories now.

HODGMAN: Yeah.

KP: Along with the prospect of time travel, which I’m quite intrigued by.

HODGMAN: Yeah, exactly.  Time travel’s gonna… I predict it’s gonna be reality.

KP: If we were to extrapolate off the time travel aspect, you certainly had an interesting career prior to launching into writing.

HODGMAN: Yeah…

KP: It seems like it’s a certain kind of person that goes into agenting.  How would you describe the John Hodgman of, let’s say, even 10 years ago?

HODGMAN: Well, let’s see.  This is 2006.  In the year 1996 I was working at a literary agency in New York City called Writer’s House, very happily sort of deciding that I would not have to ever bother with actually writing anything myself because that is very… it’s very hard work.  Very time consuming, and I could live like a parasite off of other writers by representing their work and being their advocates to the publishing industry.  And also, while drinking their blood, also helping them in their careers and editing their works – which is something that I actually get a lot of reward from.  In 1996, we did not have the World Wide Web at the office yet, and I had AOL at home.  So in many ways my career – as I suspect your career – was at that point impossible.  No offense.  I mean, maybe you were running Quick Stop in 1996.  I don’t know.

KP: Yes, we ran it out of a small kiosk in Red Bank.

HODGMAN: Is that true?

KP: No.

HODGMAN: We had two Apple 2Es connected to each other in the garage.

KP: We would just share news between each other…

HODGMAN: In 1997, which was a more interesting year, we did get the internet at work, and we moved up from DOS – which is what we had been using – to Windows 95, and I found a website for the actor Bruce Campbell, and then my life really began to change. Because Bruce Campbell, who you may know is the star of Evil Dead 1 and 2 and Army of Darkness and several other… uh… B movies, which is a term that he uses proudly, answers all of his own email.  And I said, “Would you want to write a book?”  Because I was a big fan of Bruce Campbell.  And like many things that I was a fan of, I thought I was the one of maybe five or ten or fifteen in the world.  But I think what most people discovered when they found the internet was that they unknowingly were members of groups that were much, much larger who wanted to share information about things.  Meanwhile, Bruce Campbell emailed me back and said, “I always wanted to write a book about being a B movie actor.”

KP: This would be If Chins Could Kill?

HODGMAN: Yep.  And I said, “Great. If you want, I can try to represent it to you, or I could recommend an actual agent…” But Bruce is a very nice guy and let me do it, and I thought I had a big hit on my hands right away.  Took a long time to actually sell that book.  But when we did, it did turn out to be a great big hit – because that was the lesson of 1997, as far as I was concerned, that there were other people out there in the world who were just waiting to talk to one another about crazy things that they loved.  And as a result, I ended up meeting up with a bunch of people who were working on a literary journal and website called McSweeney’s, and began developing a voice in various little writings that I would do for them as a sort of semi-deranged publishing professional.  And eventually that became… Well, that was never successful and never made any money, but I began writing for magazines and began having to learn all of a sudden about… very quickly learn about hangover cures and chronic knee pain and the history of vodka and all other sorts of things you need to know. All the other things you need to know when you’re writing front-of-the-book pieces for magazines.  Just trying to get a foothold.  And pretty soon I decided that I wanted to leave book publishing as an industry and try to write, and that’s when I started writing a column for the McSweeney’s website called “Ask A Former Professional Literary Agent,” where I would dispense advice on publishing as well as on hangover cures and chronic knee pain.  And more and more developed a voice that would become the voice of me and the book as you know – a world expert on every subject.  Which is really just my voice, the kind of voice that I like to use when I’m talking to people or writing things for myself – but because I had met via technology and good fortune a lot of other people who liked this sort of voice, I could find an audience and develop it.

KP: Was there anything that surprised you in that transition?

HODGMAN: Is there anything that surprised me?

KP: In your transition, now being in the position of those who you had once represented…

HODGMAN: Oh, well, I mean, I was surprised at how quickly I transformed into a desperate, loathsome, needy person. 

KP: You were expecting the process to be a lot slower, then…

HODGMAN: Well, yeah, perhaps I expected it to be slower.  Perhaps I expected that because I had worked in publishing and I worked with authors, and while I loved them, of course I never wanted to speak to them or deal with them in any way, and their small problems and their desire for money and free lunches and everything else.

KP: So here’s where the hobo fascination comes in…

HODGMAN: Yeah, perhaps.  But I ended up being represented by an old colleague of mine from the agency.  So this is someone I knew when I was a publishing professional and a respectable person who wore clean clothes and was taken out to lunch.  And then I became a client and a writer and the transformation was so complete and, like, awful… I could hear myself become this whining creature of pure need and desire, calling up, “Yeah, this royalty statement is five cents off!  I can’t stand for this.  And tomorrow I have to take a shower.”  I was really aghast at myself, I have to say.

KP: So, when you’re so completely submerged in irony like that, is there any way to pull yourself back up and sort of dust yourself off and realize where you are at that point?

HODGMAN: Where I was at what point?

KP: At the point of which… was there a realization point that, “My god, I’ve become them…”?

HODGMAN: There was probably one particular conversation but I’m sorry that I can’t remember what it was.

KP: You could make it up.

HODGMAN: Yeah, I know I could.  But it’s better when it’s true.  The thing about my book is that there’s a lot of truth in it. And I would say most of the things… it’s primarily a book of fake trivia, but I never wanted it to be pure absurdist non sequitur.  When I was answering questions as “Ask A Former Professional Literary Agent,” someone would ask me questions about chronic knee pain and I would want to know about chronic knee pain before I answered the question, so I could talk about the Patello-Femoral Syndrome.  Do you know what I mean? Having a ring of plausibility or even actual plausibility, I think, was what was interesting to me, and then following that plausibility to absurd extents is sort of where I really gained pleasure from it.  So I’m actually not very good at making things up. Just sort of coming up with things.  Where I feel like I gain pleasure – and this is another area where I would not be able to live without the internet – is coming across some bit of folklore or some weird urban legend on an urban legends page, or some shared cultural memory that I’d forgotten about – about, you know, like Star Blazers from when I was a kid, or whatever – and realizing that people are thinking about this, and then suddenly seeing a joke that I had never thought of.

KP: I think the book wouldn’t work if it didn’t have that solid foundation… That plausibility for absurdity to build upon.

HODGMAN: Right.

KP: You unfortunately see people who go off on flights of fancy without any ground beneath them, and you really can’t buy into that absurd world they’re trying to build – whereas with your book, instantly when you get into it you realize that there is a solid ground to stand on before you take off.

HODGMAN: Well, I’m glad you feel that way.  I’m not surprised to some degree that people have gotten so much pleasure out of the hobo section of the book, because it is crazy.  The hobos did not take over the United States government, but I think that there is a…

KP: I could have sworn I saw bindle during the State of the Union.

HODGMAN: Yeah. I saw that too.  Turns out it wasn’t a bindle.

KP: It was just a sack

HODGMAN: I think people are fascinated with hobos.  I think I’m one of a generation of people who sort of 15… or… yeah, 15 or closer to 20 years ago were in elementary school sort of learning about hobo symbols and just being fascinated by this subculture that seemed to have existed, and does it exist now still…

KP: The section of the book I enjoyed most is the section on the 51 states.  Which really is exemplary of that idea you were describing, of the fact that it has to have some grounding in the reality of each of those states for the humor and the absurdity to play off of, or else the joke is lost.

HODGMAN: Yeah, I was just thinking about that, because I spent a lot of time during writing that with an old book called The National Geographic Picture Atlas of our 50 States, which is from the 70s. An old sort of kid’s textbook from the 70s with… let’s see a fact… I have it here.  For example, in Ohio, they mine coal, petroleum, stone lime, natural gas, sand and gravel.  Sort of general little bits of propaganda for each state.  So I spent a lot of time with that and I really found it really funny and fascinating and weird, what states are known for.  I think I make a reference to the famous glittering marble mines of West Virginia, and I think not many people are gonna know, except maybe a few people, that West Virginia is the center of the marble industry.  I don’t mean marble, but marbles. They make glass marbles for playing with.

KP: It would have been great if that were the case.

HODGMAN: Well it was the case around the time in the late 70s when this book was published.  So who knows if that’s gonna ping against someone’s actual experience out there, but…

KP: I’m envisioning this great marble empire of the west.

HODGMAN: Yeah, exactly.  And of course, West Virginia with its mines is one of the gateways to the world beneath the earth’s crust and the empire of the mole men, who are going to play a very big role in the second book.

KP: What is the current status of the second book?

HODGMAN: I am beginning to write it.  Ideally in about a year it will be written.

KP: Is writing a difficult process for you?

HODGMAN: No, in this case… I find writing to be very anxiety producing for me, which is part of the reason why I tried to avoid it for so long.

KP: Where does that anxiety stem from?

HODGMAN: When I write something, I don’t really know what’s happening.  And I never… when I have an idea it suddenly happens, I write it, and if I like it then that’s good.  But the moment that it’s over, I can’t remember how I… it seems impossible that I could have had that idea.  And not even necessarily a good idea, you know, it just seems… there’s a chemistry in my brain that is a little misaligned, I guess, because it just… the idea of sitting down now just talking about it, sitting down like writing a sentence – like, I don’t know how to do that, and then something just sort of happens and I do it, and then after it’s done like I don’t know who wrote that.

KP: So, creativity for you is a spontaneous process…

HODGMAN: I think it involves a certain amount of auto-hypnosis and a measure of, I think, possession by an ancient prehistoric star-traveling spirit that I call Gobus.

KP: So, in other words, you’re the one who’s been hogging Gobus.

HODGMAN: Yeah, I’ve been hogging Gobus for a long time, and I know…

KP: You bastard.

HODGMAN: Well, he’s no picnic, let me tell you.  A lot of people want Gobus, but when he comes in, he eats up all the crackers in the house.  And then doesn’t do the dishes.  He’s kind of a pain in the ass.

KP: So he’s like John Belushi as “The guest who wouldn’t leave”…

HODGMAN: That would be very nice, but no.  More like Jim Belushi.

KP: How did The Daily Show thing come about?  Because obviously you were originally a guest in November of last year.

HODGMAN: Yeah.

KP: But now you’re a regular contributor…

HODGMAN: Well, I’ve been on a few times and I hope to be on again, though nothing is certain.  We seem to all like each other pretty well and I’m a huge fan of the show.  So, knock wood, I’ll be back again.

KP: I think it was fascinating comparing your first and second appearance, and seeing the audience’s learning curve in understanding exactly what you were doing with the delivery of the humor.  Did it seem that way in the studio, that the audience wasn’t quite sure how to take it?

HODGMAN: Well, no. From my point of view, in all three cases that I’ve been on the show as a guest and the two times sort of contributing, it was all just a complete blur to me, those moments that I was actually on stage.  It goes so quickly and it’s so sort of very difficult for the brain to process that you’re actually doing it.  Particularly if you’re a fan of the show.

KP: Did they approach you?

HODGMAN: Yeah. I had met the executive producer socially one time, a couple times before I was on the show as a guest. So we had been in touch.  We knew each other.  He made some very flattering noises about having me back some time to do something on the show. And then all of a sudden he called me on Friday and said, “Can you work up something for Monday on the Iran nuclear capability issue?”  And I said, “Okay.”  And the next thing I knew, there I was.

KP: That was also on the heels of the thing you did with They Might Be Giants.

HODGMAN: Yeah.  ‘Cause They Might Be Giants was also a similarly surreal experience for me because I’ve been a fan since I was a kid of They Might Be Giants, and I had met them through McSweeney’s. McSweeney’s had done an issue with the original CD from They Might Be Giants, and so they had done some joint readings together.  At some point in the history of McSweeney’s I got tapped as the occasional emcee of various literary events, so I had this completely surreal experience, for example, of emceeing these They Might Be Giants/McSweeney’s readings in Chicago and London.  Just very, very weird.  And I remember when we went to London in 2003 to do it at the Barbican, which was this huge house, 1000 seat house that was full, and I could believe it. And my wife came with me, and the morning after the show we’re sitting in this cheesy Euro hotel eating bad three-day-old croissants.  My wife, with whom I went to high school, also liked They Might Be Giants.  She’s like… just having difficulty understanding that I’m sitting here eating breakfast with They Might Be Giants.  It’s very weird.  And the whole experience has been like that.  Just a very unbelievable adventure.

KP: if you were to pick one thing that’s been the most surreal that you’ve been able to do, what would you point to?

HODGMAN: In life or with regard to the book?

KP: Either/or.

hodgman-05.jpgHODGMAN: I think it would had to have been… I think that moment in London, playing at the London Barbican, which is a huge performing arts center in London, and introducing Zadie Smith and Nick Hornby and They Might Be Giants and Arthur Bradford and Dave Eggers.  It’s like, “What’s going on?  How did this happen?” That was a moment where you felt a learning curve.  Then, of course, all those people knowing who I was, and I went out and just started talking about radio attack ads – which is a piece that ended up being in my book – and doing that piece, and I could feel this audience of 1,000 people suddenly get it all at once, and then they really got it and they really liked it.  You know, it was very much like writing, actually, because I could not for the life of me write out what it was that I wanted to say on that event. Then two seconds before I went on stage I knew exactly how I wanted to set up the radio attack ads piece.  It was like channeling Gobus, you know?

KP: Creatively, where are you most comfortable?

HODGMAN: Creatively?  You mean physically in the world? 

KP: Or in a creative fashion.  Is it writing? Is it being in front of an audience?  Where do you feel most at ease and most creative and fulfilled?

HODGMAN: There’s a difference between where I feel most at ease and creatively most fulfilled.  I feel most at ease sitting on a couch watching TV or watching a movie or hanging around with some friends.  I don’t… the writing is pure dis-ease from then, and the performing as well.  But, of course, it is the most creatively fulfilling thing that I could do, because without it, where would I be? I don’t know.  I wouldn’t have that memory of going to London, or whatever.  Being on The Daily Show

KP: Is the hurdle higher to sit down and write, or to walk out in front of an audience?

HODGMAN: Um… I’d say they’re about the same.  Usually when I’ve gone out to an audience, I’ve already written what it is that I’m gonna say, so, you know, basically what I’m doing is reading dictation from the time traveling spirit known as Gobus, you know?  I guess it’s probably… sitting down to write is a little more anxiety producing, but of course there is less concern about your pants falling down, ’cause who cares if that happens when you’re writing.

KP: Well, then it’d just be vaudeville for no one but yourself.

HODGMAN: Right, exactly.

KP: What would you say has been your worst experience writing, and your worst experience performing in front of an audience?

HODGMAN: Well, every experience of writing is my worst.

KP: Is there any writing experience that has actually gone surprisingly easy?

HODGMAN: Yes.  This book was a surprisingly easy thing for me to write.  It was a surprisingly enjoyable thing for me to write. Even though it was nerve wracking in the same way, and even though each time I would sit down to do it I’m like, “What am I doing?  How do I write sentences?”  You know, that whole experience.  But for the most part it was very enjoyable and I’m very excited to be back involved in writing the next one. So that went well.  But otherwise, generally speaking, each time I sit down to write it’s the exact same complete anxiety.  Total pancellular anxiety.  It makes writing sound very glamorous, I’m sure.  My worst experience performing… gosh… I don’t know. There are plenty of things where I feel like I didn’t really get where I wanted to be.

KP: Have you ever walked out and – comparing it to the London experience – where an audience just didn’t click at all?

HODGMAN: Yeah, but I’m not gonna tell you about it!  Because I think I feel things much more differently.  I’m glad to say that there have been no unparalleled, unquestionable disasters.

KP: So no one’s run you out of town at this point.

HODGMAN: No one’s run me out of town.  No one’s, like… my pants have not fallen down, I haven’t completely blown my lines.  For the most part I’ve been very lucky in that even if it’s only a few people and that’s happened, you know…

KP: It’s a hell of a night where they all happen at once – you forget your lines, your pants fall down, and then they run you out… which would be very difficult with your pants down.

HODGMAN: Yeah, exactly.  I wouldn’t be running, exactly.  Well I guess for me it’s probably about as fast as I move anyway.  No, I’ve been very lucky that even when the crowds are very small – and that happens fairly frequently on book tours and that sort of thing – people are extremely gracious and nice and responsive. And if they don’t get it, I don’t really blame them.  It’s usually because… it has something to do with talking about hobos.  Maybe I’m talking about weird esoteric Muppet trivia, for example.  I’m sure you’ve experienced, in your life, that not everyone gets it the same way that you do for me.

KP: Are you surprised at all by the attention and the accolades you’ve gotten?

HODGMAN: It is very gratifying and I think that probably, you know, things… books or comedic sensibilities, they have their own audience, and I think for me this book was really gonna… I was gonna work very hard to promote the book and just test to see just how large the audience is out there for deranged fake trivia.  And I had sort of steeled myself for the possibility that the audience, while very gracious and people that I like, might not be more than a couple thousand people, you know?  And then I was gonna have to sort of, you know, focus on other kinds of writing professionally and keep doing this on the side.  So I was very happily surprised in many ways that it seems to touch a diseased part of many more brains than that.

KP: Is there anything about the attention that you regret?

HODGMAN: No.  Oh, I’m sorry that the book isn’t longer.  One of the jokes of the book was that it was… like the 700 hobo names, it was going to be so massive and comprehensive-seeming as to be almost incomprehensible. 

KP: You should have just printed the book twice over and bound it together.

HODGMAN: Yeah, that would have been a way.  But you know, instead I decided to write two more and make them all part of the same book.

KP: So when should the next book be out?

HODGMAN: Hopefully it’ll be written by the beginning of next year and then it would come out a year from this fall. More Information Than You Require will come out in 2007.  Fall of 2007. One of the things that is important to understand about the three books that will ultimately complete The Complete World Knowledge is that they are not a trilogy in the same way The Lord of the Rings is not a trilogy, but one long novel that is sometimes published in three parts.  And similarly, the second book, More Information Than You Require, and the third book, That Is All, will be all part of one complete, deranged whole.  And if I have my way, the page numbers of the second book will pick up exactly where the page numbers of this book left off, and so on.

KP: So eventually we’ll see a compendium of all three.

HODGMAN: Yes, and then a “Page a Day” calendar and maybe some themed cruises and lots and lots of matchbooks.

KP: And when will the animated series be premiering?

HODGMAN: I don’t know, you should talk to your friend Jackson Publick about that.

KP: So, now, what can we do with the uranium we were talking about?

HODGMAN: What can we do with it? ‘Cause I’ve got a lot of it here.  A lot of enriched uranium.

KP: No one has had, like, a Tupperware party for uranium.

HODGMAN: I know.

KP: Have you thought about that?

HODGMAN: I was thinking about it.  You can put me in touch with the world leaders who need it.  I’d like to get some of this stuff out of my house, because I need to get my office back, you know what I mean?

KP: I can get you Muppeteers but not world leaders.  Although you never know what you can do with a uranium powered Muppet.

HODGMAN: Well, you can entertain some children and then blow them up, I guess.  And adults alike.  I didn’t mean to limit it.

KP: I know. But back to the book – you know, as soon as I got my hands on it, I called up people and read them portions.  It seems like a book that people want to share with other people.

HODGMAN: It’s a book of many, many small portions. It is not designed necessarily to be read from start to finish, but more to be dipped into and appreciated over time, lest you see the underlying con of the whole thing.

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September 11, 2006

Interview: Robert Vaughn

Filed under: Interviews — UncaScroogeMcD @ 1:36 am

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-by Ken Plume

vaughn-01.jpgIf there is a master list of actors whom you immediately identify whenever they show up on screen, Robert Vaughn surely has a secure place on it. From The Magnificent Seven to The Man From U.N.C.L.E., from The Towering Inferno to Superman III – you know, the list just goes on an on, in a career spanning nearly 50 years.

His latest foray is the BBC drama Hustle, the first season of which has just hit DVD. Like Ocean’s 11 with a multigenerational group of cons substituting for the fabled thieves, Hustle one of those confection dramas that you devour greedily, enjoying the dramatic cake and the sweet character icing all in one go, unable to stop with just one episode. Maybe the cake metaphor was a bit much, but this is still an amazing show, if only for Vaughn’s performance as an aging con with much wisdom to impart to the young, sometimes foolishly cocksure, turks.

We had a chance to chat with Vaughn about his life and career…

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KEN PLUME: I guess the first question I have to ask you is – this many years into your career, what exactly does it take for a part to excite you?

ROBERT VAUGHN: Well, the first thing I consider is where it’s going to be filmed.  Then I find out how much money they have, and then I read the script.  In some 125 movies I’ve done over the last 50 years, I’ve been on some disastrous locations which I would never want to return to for any amount of money.  So always make sure to check that out. In the case of the current show, it’s filming n London, which is my second home.  I lived there off and on since the late 50s.

KP: You’ve done quite a bit of work there, as well.

VAUGHN: Yes, I did a series there for three years in the 70s, and I’ve done various other films like Julius Cesar with Charlton Heston, Jason Robards and Diana Rigg. In various periods in my life I’ve lived in London, and we’re living there now until we finish Hustle, whenever that happens.

KP: Hopefully no time soon.

VAUGHN: I hope not, because I’m really enjoying it. I love doing it.

KP: When you talk about locations, and I’m not asking you to name names, what is it that makes for a bad location for you?

VAUGHN: Well I can tell you quite clearly what I feel is a bad location.  I’ll just cite three different pictures.  One I did in Caracas where I was under house arrest and couldn’t get out of the country, and eventually I had to put on a costume with my wife and my dog, a Mexican and Spanish costume, and sneak into the airport – and I had to take the first flight out of Caracas that I could get, and it was to Barcelona, not to the United States.  So my dog and my wife and I wound up in Barcelona and came back to the United States after having been under house arrest for several weeks in Caracas because the producers of the film were in jail.  That was one instance.  Another instance, I did a film in Prague, Czechoslovakia, and it was invaded by the Russians at the time I was filming, so once again I’m under house arrest.  Nothing could be done about that.   It wasn’t anyone’s fault.

KP: Well, except for the communists.

VAUGHN: And then I did another film in Yugoslavia where there were only four Americans in the cast. The rest were all Yugoslavians, and it was a three month shoot and I literally had no facilities at all. I had a tree to go to the bathroom behind.  It was Robert’s tree…

KP: That’s because they have a strong guild.

VAUGHN: They did not serve food that was edible.  In other words, they treated actors like trees, like chairs. I also did a film in Peru where I had a 24 hour bodyguard because The Shining Path, the Maoist guerillas, were kidnapping Americans right around when we were shooting on the top of Machu Picchu, the large mountain outside of Lima. That’s just a handful.

KP: So, really, it’s just locations that produce anecdotes that you don’t like…

VAUGHN: Oh absolutely, no question.  Also, as the years go by, it puts unnecessary strain on my brain and my heart and I don’t want to experience that anymore.

KP: No, we definitely want you working for quite a few more of those years that stress would take away. We particularly want to keep you out from under house arrest or a communist invasion.

VAUGHN: Yeah, enough of that.  I’d like to be under house arrest at Buckingham Palace.

KP: You’ve also been an actor over the years that hasn’t been afraid to make the transition back and forth between TV and film…

VAUGHN: Yeah, I was very lucky, because many actors that had great success in television series seem to disappear off the map, the acting map, and I was fortunate enough that the first movie I did after The Man from U.N.C.L.E. was a picture called Bullitt with my old friend at that time, Steve McQueen.  We’d known each other at that time for eight years.  We met doing The Magnificent Seven.  So that picture, Bullitt, was one of the top ten grossing pictures of 1968, which is the year that U.N.C.L.E. went off the air, and I went on into other motion pictures, and Towering Inferno and Superman III, and on and on and on – but lots of times that doesn’t happen.  Most of the time it doesn’t happen to actors who’ve had a successful television series, but I was very fortunate.

KP: Particularly at that point.

VAUGHN: It was particularly having Steve as a friend at that point.  He was producing the picture and he wanted me in it.

KP: Well, it’s good to have connections.

VAUGHN: Yes.

KP: Especially at that point in the industry, it was not an easy transition for an actor to make, to go from TV to film.

VAUGHN: Oh no, very definitely. I think the only two people who had done it at that time were James Garner and Steve McQueen.  Other people did it as time went on, but most of the other actors, 90% of them, either disappeared altogether or reappeared many years later in some lesser vehicle.

KP: I also find it fascinating that during the 70s you pursued and attained a PhD.

VAUGHN: Yeah, I got my doctorate in June of 1970.  I’d been in graduate school all through the 60s.  I got my masters degree in 1960, and then during the 60s I did get my doctorate. USC, where I got my doctorate, were very kind to accommodate me in terms of my work schedule in television.  Somebody let me off the hook in terms of certain time limits that would normally be put on somebody getting a PhD.  They allowed me some flexibility – which was certainly alright with me, and I was able to complete the work.  My doctorate dissertation, I revised as a book titled Only Victims, that dealt with Hollywood blacklisting.

KP: It’s a topic and attitude  that seems to recur every once in a while in more insidious forms.

VAUGHN: Yes.  I don’t think it’s ever going to reoccur again in exactly the same form, but there are still cases when people, even now who are supporting the war in Iraq, who are to some degree at least graylisted in Hollywood because Hollywood is a predominantly liberal community.

KP: You obviously have been very political over the years. I was surprised to find that you were asked to run for governor in the 70s.

VAUGHN: Actually it was Senator.  And it was the Peace and Freedom party. It was made up of a lot of people, Black Panthers, so I declined.

KP: But at least you felt honored to be asked, right?

VAUGHN: Yeah, right.

KP: I also have to ask what the status of your autobiography is…

VAUGHN: I’m looking at part of it right now.  I’m waiting… there are two publishers that are down to the wire that I’m meeting with, and my projected manuscript handing-in would be the Spring of 2008, and that would be exactly my 50th full year in the motion pictures and television business.  So it’d be released on the 50th anniversary of my life in Hollywood.

KP: Does it have a title?

VAUGHN: It’s currently titled A Fortuned Life.  And it’ll have a picture of me on the front and a picture of me on the back and my name on the top of the book and the title will be probably smaller than my name. 

KP: It’ll should just be a picture of you.  You don’t have to put your name on it at all.

VAUGHN: I hadn’t thought of that.  Maybe I’ll check that out.

KP: How exactly did Hustle come about?

VAUGHN: In May of 2003, my wife and I had scheduled a visit to Scotland, where we had never gone even though we lived in England many, many years off and on.  Every time we had made a preparation to go to Scotland, something had canceled it with work or I had to come home for something.  So we had this trip to Scotland planned. Five days in May. And about a week before we were to leave, I got a call from my British agent, Jean Diamond, and she said, “Are you coming through England any time in the near future?” And I said, “Well, oddly enough, I’m coming through in about a week on my way to Scotland.  Stopping in London.”  “Oh, wonderful,” she said, “The BBC wants to have lunch with you and tell you about a new series they’re doing about con men.  And we’ll set it up.” So they did indeed set it up and I had a lovely long liquid lunch with all the producers and directors, and a great deal of hugging and kissing, we will know each other forever at the end of lunch, and all that kind of thing.  So we went to Scotland and I didn’t hear anything back.  In the meantime, they sent me three of the scripts for Hustle.  They also sent me a videotape of a series they did called Spooks, in London, which is MI5 in America.  This is the same production company that did Spooks – and is doing Spooks, because it’s still on the air.  So I looked at the scripts, which I thought were wonderful – best scripts I’d read in years – and I loved the production values on the television shows that they sent me.  So I said to the agent, “Green light. Absolutely.  London is definitely a fine location for me, I’m very happy there.”  So time went by and May went into June and June went into July, and I basically forgot about it because that happens quite often. There’s nothing unusual about it.  There’ll be a great deal of movement and then all of a sudden it’s quiet.

KP: And you got a lunch out of it.

VAUGHN: Yeah.  So in August, we had a huge blackout as you may remember, on the East Coast of America all the way from Canada down to North Carolina.  Well, we knew from prior experience in the house that we lived in, in Connecticut, that when we had a blackout that affected us, which was fairly often, there was one phone in the garage that seemed to work while all the other ones did not work.  So we were sitting there in the dark. It was about 9:00 at night and it was 2:00 am in London, and we’re watching television – a battery operated television – by candlelight, but we’re very used to it.  It’s nothing unusual for us.  And the phone rings in the garage.  And so I went to the garage because it was only about 20 feet away.  I picked up the phone and it was my agent, Jean Diamond, and she said, “They want you… they started shooting last Wednesday on Hustle and they want you there to shoot on Wednesday.  So you have to take the flight out tomorrow night.”  And I said, “Well, wait a minute. We haven’t even talked a deal.” And she said, “Don’t worry. They’ve already started shooting, they don’t want anybody else – they want you.  And get over here.”  So I did. I arrived Tuesday morning and started filming Wednesday morning, and that’s the story of Hustle.

KP: Well, that’s a great way to be wanted. 

VAUGHN: Even though I didn’t know I was hanging in there, apparently I was and didn’t know it.

KP: It’s good when you’re contacted and it’s a fait accompli.

VAUGHN: Yeah!  Right.

KP: And then stepping into the role, what is it about the character that you found appealing?

VAUGHN: Well, the day after I started filming, which was on a Wednesday, I was overwhelmed at my hotel with calls from the British press wanting to interview me.  Everybody wanted to know what I thought of the character of Albert Stroller, and I, since I hadn’t actually given it zero thought – since I hadn’t planned on doing it – I said, “Well, look at it this way.  Suppose my character from The Man from U.N.C.L.E., Napoleon Solo, after leading this glamorous international adventurous life, retired on his government pension. And realized after a while he couldn’t live that life anymore.  What could he do that was still within the confines of the law that could take advantage of his knowledge of everything from women and cars to jewelry to international events, gambling and so on? He said, ‘Well, why not be a con man?”‘  So I just made this up as I went along.  But that’s what’s now playing in all the columns in the U.K.  That I’m playing Napoleon Solo, the later years.

KP: Wait a second… You make stuff up when you talk to the press?

VAUGHN: Well, I made it up at that point because I had nothing to say.  I hadn’t given it any thought.  So I told them in advance I’m just winging this as I go along, so bear with me.  And everybody took it for gospel and that’s what it was. And what it remains today.  Napoleon Solo, but he is now called Albert Stroller.

KP: Has that now legitimately become your hook into the character?

VAUGHN: Well basically, yeah, because it’s the kind of role that just lends itself to, I’m wearing a tux most of the time, I’m in gambling casinos, I do deal with various lovely ladies from time to time – so it is, in effect, a later version of the character I played in The Man from U.N.C.L.E.

KP: It’s amazing how many roles you’ve performed that have found you in a tux.

VAUGHN: Yeah, my wife said I’m the last three piece suit/tux actor still around.  I wear it very often.  In Hustle I wear a three piece suit with a double breasted vest.

KP: Maybe that should be the subtitle for your autobiography.

VAUGHN: Yeah.

KP: “Last of the Three Piece Suit Men.”

VAUGHN: Exactly. I’ll get it in there somewhere, I’m sure.

KP: Nothing ever goes away.  The Man from U.N.C.L.E. should be on DVD soon, even…

VAUGHN: Yeah.  As a matter of fact, last year I did a whole day of filming for the DVD of the first year which was going to be… I think it was coming out this fall.  And I suddenly found out that after I’d done all this, the company that I was doing it for didn’t actually have the rights to the DVD.  And they still don’t have it, and I think someone else in the meantime got the rights to it, so it should be coming out this spring now under a different brand than the one that I worked for.

KP: Hopefully they’ll be able to repurpose the footage they shot with you.

VAUGHN: I hope so, yeah, because it really was literally an entire day of them asking me questions while I was on camera, and they just drilled me for eight hours about the show.

KP: Maybe they just used it as a great way to meet you.

VAUGHN: (laughing) Well, it’s a fairly expensive way.  Lunch would be easier.

KP: And your season of The A-Team will be out soon as well.

VAUGHN: Oh, The A-Team!  I didn’t know that.

KP: It’ll be out in a few months.

VAUGHN: Oh, is that right?  I didn’t know.  Well, I just did the last year.  I didn’t do the whole… however many years they were on. I only did the last two.

KP: So really, with the release of that and Hustle, and The Man from U.N.C.L.E., this could be the year of Vaughn.

VAUGHN: Yeah, I hope so.

KP: Are there any other projects that you haven’t been able to do yet that are kinda personal that you love to be able to do?

VAUGHN: The only thing that I have always wanted to do – and now it’s too late to do – was I wanted to do My Fair Lady onstage.  A couple years ago I got a call from the president of Los Angeles City College, where I had gone to school in the early 50s, and they were having the 75th anniversary of the school, and they wanted to put all their budget into some big production of some kind and wanted to know if I’d be interested in doing anything.  And I immediately suggested My Fair Lady, and they said, “That’s wonderful. Do you think Jim Coburn would do Pickering?” And I said, “Well, I see Jim fairly often and I’ll mention it to him.”  So fade in, fade out, they did get together with a lot of money to do the production, and Jim passed away, and then the woman who hired me – who was the president of the school – got a new job as chancellor of all the junior colleges in Michigan, and so she was out of the picture. So it never happened, and now I’m sure it never will.  It’s too late in life for me to do that.

KP: You would have made a great Eliza, though.

VAUGHN: (laughing) Well, you’d have to get an elderly Eliza, or middle-aged, at least.

KP: I think you’re underestimating your ability to still carry off the role.

VAUGHN: Oh, thank you very much, that’s very kind of you.

KP: So really, doing that… is that something that you’ve always harbored a desire to do?

VAUGHN: Yes. I saw the original production on Broadway with Rex Harrison. I also saw, that same year, a production of Inherit the Wind with Paul Muni playing the lead on stage, and I remember at the time I said, “I must put this in my mental checkbook that I will someday be these two parts.”  And I did do Inherit the Wind with E.G. Marshall at the Papermill Playhouse in New Jersey about 15 years ago, so I did get a chance to do that. But unfortunately, I didn’t get a crack at My Fair Lady.  I learned all the songs and I spent a lot of time preparing for it, and unfortunately, I didn’t get a chance to use my efforts.

KP: Well, maybe you can do just an audio version of it.

VAUGHN: Yes.

KP: Release your own cast album for it…

VAUGHN: Yes…

KP: At least all the preparation won’t go to waste.

VAUGHN: Well, we shall see.

KP: It’s been a real pleasure speaking with you.

VAUGHN: Thank you very much.

KP: And I wish you the best of luck and can’t wait to see what comes next, and I can’t wait to read your autobiography…

VAUGHN: Thank you very much, Ken…

 

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