PLUME: It was also around this time that you were approached to perform another character that has attainted a cult status, Yoda. How did that come about?

OZ: All I remember was that I was shooting The Muppet Movie in Los Angeles, and Jim came to me and said Gary Kurtz, who was co-producer of The Empire Strikes Back, had a character and I think they asked Jim first – but with running a company and everything he couldn’t do it, so he recommended me.

So all I remember was that he said, “Come over here, I want you to meet this guy and look at this character.” So I went in my trailer on the set, and Gary talked about it a little and showed me this character, and sometimes you “get” a character immediately and sometimes, like Bert or Grover, it takes years. So he opened up this book and I saw this drawing, and for some reason, I immediately knew what this guy was. I can’t tell you why. I just knew it.

From then on, I was the one who kind of put all the elements of Yoda together, and although Jim didn’t make Yoda, George and he had an understanding that they would exchange technology information. George would give to Jim and Jim would give some of his people to George to help. Wendy Froud helped out a little bit with the character and two other people from Jim’s company worked the cables for me.

It was not Jim who made the puppet, he just consulted on it, then I continued on after that.

PLUME: Your next directing gig after Dark Crystal was Muppets Take Manhattan.

OZ: Right. That’s again where Jim’s support and the opportunities he gave me comes out.

There was a script written by two other writers, and I said to Jim that I felt it wasn’t in the right direction. I may have been wrong about it, but the point is that he allowed me to rewrite it, and so I rewrote the script. The he asked me to direct it. I was very grateful, and that was the first directing job I’d done really on my own.

PLUME: Was it an odd feeling to be directing your mentor?

OZ: That situation with the Muppets is so different. It’s guided play. When Jim and I had worked in the past, I’ll mention some ideas to him… I’d say “Why don’t you try it over here,” and he’d say to me “Why don’t we try it over here,” so we both kind of did that to each other anyway. Also not only us, but Dave Goelz, or Jerry Nelson, or Richard Hunt, or Steve Whitmire or anybody else would say, “Hey could we try this over here? This might be good.”

In a way, it’s more of a shared sense of creativity with each person guiding, it just happened to be that I was the one guiding it, but still there was a shared sense of creativity. The actual spirit of it wasn’t that much different. I think the puppeteers hated me because I was pushing them so hard. I was a bit too controlling on that film. I don’t think I was the best director for Jim or the other people on the first film I did.

PLUME: Was it just a matter of nervousness?

OZ: Inexperience. I think the more inexperienced you are, the more in control you think you have to be. The more experience you have, you realize you don’t have to be in control.

PLUME: How did you get Little Shop Of Horrors?

OZ: It’s very interesting. After Muppets Take Manhattan, I acquired two agents from CAA, Mike Marcus and Fred Spector. David Geffen had seen Muppets Take Manhattan, and he was interested in me directing Little Shop.

They sent the script to me and I met with Fred Spector and I said no. There was much too much…it was too big. I didn’t understand it. It had fourteen songs – as many as My Fair Lady – and it had guest stars, huge sets, and major special effects which were not done digitally, because that’s the way it was 15 years ago. So I said no. It had these three girls running around and I didn’t get it.

After about two weeks, I was in Canada doing a job – and I had an idea about how to approach the girls. It was the key that opened up the movie to me. I called David Geffen through my agents and asked if he was still interested. He said, “Yeah” and I came in and told him my ideas. He liked it, and then he asked if I wanted to rewrite it, and I said, “I’ll try.” I asked Howard Ashman if he wanted to be part of it and he said no, because I think he thought, “What the hell do I need to work with an inexperienced director for? He’ll screw up my script.”

So I spent about a month, month-and-a-half doing a rewrite on Little Shop, which really used some new material, but mostly restructured a lot of the old material. Both Howard and David liked it, and then we went on – it was a go.

PLUME: What was the hardest thing to tackle on Little Shop?

OZ: Oh, that f***ing plant. Also, people hadn’t done a musical before, and also 007…that huge stage…in the dead of winter…without heat. It was a massive project, but I think that plant was the thing that really… I mean, it took us about 8 weeks to shoot the song number with the plant.

PLUME: Does it surprise you how well the picture has held up?

OZ: I’m surprised, pleasantly so, that’s become a cult picture for people. I look at it and, like all my work – well, not all my work – but I see all the things I wish I’d done differently and better. In general, I think that’s one of the pictures I’m most proud of.

PLUME: What happened with the Little Shop of Horrors DVD fiasco?

OZ: Well, the fiasco is my f***in’ fault.

What happened was that when I did the DVD, they asked me did I have any footage, and I said, “Well, I have the ending,” which is some of the most brilliant model work done at that time. We had to shelve it, and I was very sad for the man who worked six months on this thing and spent so much money – it was great work. I said I had that original ending and they said, “Great!” so I said, “Yeah, you can use it.”

And then he used it, and I got a call from David Geffen a month later after the disc was out, and he says, “What happened? Why did you give them that footage?” I said, “I thought it would be okay. I thought it was cleared through you.” He said, “But it was black and white…” I said, “Well that’s all I had.” He said, “I have color, if you’re going to put it out. Let’s make it good. Let’s make it color.” I said, “David, I’m sorry. It’s my fault. I didn’t realize you had a color image of it.”

So he pulled all the DVDs. I don’t know at some point if he’ll put the color version out or not.

PLUME: That was your first real project outside the Henson fold…

OZ: Right, that was.

PLUME: What were your feelings about “leaving the nest?”

OZ: That’s the great thing about Jim. He gave me his blessings and said, “Of course… You have to grow.” That’s where the nobility came in.

(continued below…)

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