PLUME: The Muppet organization always struck me as a very tightknit group.

OZ: We are.

PLUME: Do you think it’s just the nature of the work – or the people?

OZ: I think it’s the people involved. I don’t think it’s the nature. It’s the kind of people that Jim found.

Most of the key people (and creative people) here are still from Jim’s choices – Jim chose these people. I think the kind of people he chose… the people that we are…are people (who are innocent at heart and are also professional and loyal. Good people who are very talented and brilliant at what they do. I think it’s the people that Jim chose and not the nature of the work which makes us tightknit. It all stems from Jim. It all comes from that spirit.

PLUME: And the industry, overall, isn’t known for many of those factors…

OZ: Nope.

No, Jim was an exceptional human being. He was much more noble. There was a nobility about him because, although it was always about the work, it wasn’t always about the money.

For example, there was a prop man on the set who had to do a special effect for the Muppets for a particular character, and he would always screw up. Another director would say, “Okay, get another guy,” but Jim knew there was something larger. That’s a humane equation here, too – that the man would feel bad if he was let go and we got another prop guy. So Jim stayed with this prop guy.

I remember being on the set for take after take after take until he could get it right. Jim “got” two things, he not only got the performance right, but he also supported a human being. That’s very rare. That is the one thing… I don’t know if anybody else has that nobility. That generousness of spirit. He was always for not just what was at hand, but for the larger picture.

PLUME: It’s very rare to find a person who is universally described that way.

OZ: It is.

What I don’t like is describing Jim as that he was this wonderful, warm, sweet man because, yes he was a wonderful, warm, sweet man – but he was also the strongest man I ever met in character. He was very tough. He worked like a sonofabitch. He could get cranky and he got snarky at times. He would rarely get angry. I’ve seen him angry only about three times in my life.

He was a very complex guy, but he was that noble spirit.

PLUME: Was the decision for you to co-direct Dark Crystal made early on?

OZ: No – I remember it very clearly.

Jim didn’t have a script – he didn’t work that normal way. He wanted to have a laboratory of textures and designs and ideas and rehearsals. He had a story – but he wanted the script to work in conjunction with the laboratory of creating the characters.

So I was privy to that. I was there to help out. My job basically was to help Jim and to help the company. It was not my thing, but I wanted to help as much as I could. He did that for about a year or two, and then I think we went over to England once on an airplane a couple years before we started shooting, and that’s when he asked me would I like to direct – and I’ll never forget this…

This is Jim – he said, “Would you direct Dark Crystal with me?” and I said, “Why? I don’t know how to direct. You could do it yourself. Why would you want me to direct with you?”

He said, “Because it would be better.” And that’s all that mattered. He didn’t care about the credit. He knew that he had some weaknesses and he felt that I had some strengths, and so we worked together that way.

We were Yin and Yang to a degree, and so I could shore up some of those weaknesses and…at the same time…I can learn from him. I’m sure that was part of it, too. He was always about making something better. It was always about the quality of the piece and not anything else. That’s all he cared about.

And the truth is, I didn’t direct with him. He directed. I helped him direct his movie. He was generous giving the title, but really it was his movie, his vision, and I shored up the areas where he had some weaknesses, but it was not my movie, it was his movie.

PLUME: Very rarely does one hear of a co-directorship running smoothly. What was that process like?

OZ: It was not smooth at all, and it was because of me, not because of Jim. Jim should have f***in’ fired me several times. Jim was extraordinarily patient. I was a young guy who wanted to make his mark in the world, and if I was the co-director, by God why wasn’t I attending more meetings and why didn’t I get more say in things? I had a problem of self-esteem and it came through that way. It was difficult for Jim, not for me. It was frustrating for me, but that was an unhealthy frustration. It worked because Jim was patient. That’s why it worked.

PLUME: So it was a mentoring situation…

OZ: Absolutely. A mentoring situation except in certain areas I was able to shore up those things that the mentor was not sure in.

PLUME: And as you described, that was one of Jim’s gifts to allow that kind of creative input…

OZ: Always, always. He was nurturing, always.

(continued below…)

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