PLUME: What was working on Saturday Night Live like?

OZ: I don’t remember much because, again, I was a drone. A performer.

I remember meeting with Lorne Michaels, Jim and I. Lorne was talking about how we would work on the show. He said he had this girl from Canada, which happened to be Gilda, and we didn’t know who that was. He thought we might work well with her, but Jim had a different idea. Jim didn’t know Gilda, and Jim had ideas to push the boundaries, not do the funny little Muppets, but to do bizarre creatures. He always wanted to push the boundaries, so this was an opportunity to have new, bizarre characters…a different world.

So he took it for that, in part to push those boundaries and express himself, and as a gig too. I just remember the process, working with their writers like Chevy (Chase), and Tom (Davis) and Al (Franken), and a lot of other guys. It was a difficult process. It was a frustrating process for everybody involved, because we came on the show and, bizarrely enough it’s hard to see that now, but during the first year, the Muppets were the most well known people on the show. Nobody else knew Danny (Aykroyd) or Chevy (Chase) or John (Belushi).

Then, of course, everybody realized that the other guys were getting more popular and the Muppets, as popular as they are, just didn’t fit into that kind of show. The humor is totally different. We were a more punchy, cartoony kind of thing and they were not. Fortunately at the end of that first year, we got The Muppet Show and we parted very friendly, but it was a frustrating year for everybody.

PLUME: I know it has been described as very uncomfortable for the SNL writers to write for the Muppets…

OZ: It was.

PLUME: How palpable was that to you? Belushi described them as the “Mucking Fuppets”…

OZ: Yeah. John was very friendly and we were very friendly with John and Chevy and Danny, actually, personally, I was very friendly with John.

But our personal friendship had nothing to do with how they felt about the Muppets. I don’t think it was really about the Muppets, I just think it was taking time away from their opportunities. Also, we were trying to squeeze the original idea of the Muppets onto a show which now had gained a different identity, and our identity didn’t mesh with their identity. That’s all it was.

There was no personal animosity, we were all friends and enjoyed each other, but we were from different worlds. The writing meetings were very tense – very tense – and rightfully show, because they were trying to write in a way that they’d never written before, and we were trying to get on a show that was wrong comedically for us.

PLUME: So basically it was just a stylistic clash?

OZ: I think that’s all it was. That’s really all it was. They didn’t know how to do it. They didn’t understand the Muppets. People think it’s very easy to write for the Muppets, but it’s very difficult.

They were very sardonic and sarcastic and brilliant, I loved ’em, I loved being on the show. It was wonderful to be on the show the first year, but with the Muppets, there’s not mean-spiritedness. They were sometimes mean-spirited taking a chance, which I love, but with us, our characters were more affectionate. Bizarre, but still warm. It just didn’t mesh. Eventually it was obvious that the styles didn’t mesh. I really believe that was totally it, because we were on a very friendly basis with them personally, but it just f***ing didn’t work.

PLUME: How would you sum up your years working on The Muppet Show?

OZ: Sum it up? Hmmm…

PLUME: Would you still consider yourself a journeyman performer? You assumed a lot of off camera duties during that time…

OZ: I still consider myself a journeyman performer. I was a workhorse. I felt it was an absolutely fabulous opportunity for me to learn. Jim allowed me to be part of that. I knew that I wanted to direct, and there were movies coming up and Jim and I knew that, so I said, “Y’know, I’d like to have a title, Creative Consultant, so I can stick my head into meetings and learn and people won’t ask ?What the f*** is this performer doing here?'”

So I asked for Creative Consultant, a half-assed title, which meant that I could go learn post-production, and go to writing meetings. I’m not sure how happy they were about that – but I was happy to learn. But my main job was still the workhorse, the performer.

PLUME: And Jim always facilitated those opportunities?

OZ: Always. He always supported and always gave me opportunities. That’s why I’m here now, because of those opportunities and the support Jim gave me.

PLUME: It was also during that time that Ms. Piggy attained a widespread cult status. Actually beyond a cult status…

OZ: It was beyond that – it was so massive. It was massive because it came during the time of women’s lib. I mean, we were on the cover of LIFE and all these magazines, and endless interviews.

Also remember, The Muppet Show was the most watched show in the world at that time – they said over and over, in 104 countries. It was massive. It was huge. I think it had a lot to do with the times in which we did the show. The timing was really right.

PLUME: How did you feel about a character of yours eclipsing the rest of the Muppets?

OZ: You know, I know it sounds odd, but we were so much of a group…I mean, I knew that I was a star performer – with all the articles written about Piggy there was no way I couldn’t see that. However, I was still doing all these other characters…and small stuff too…and I was still a workhorse on the show.

And we were a group. It was always for the work, not for fame. Jim was still the head of it, still the guiding light, the visionary, and he was the one who created the fun and created the extraordinary amount of work, so I didn’t think much about it – except that I was exhausted a lot.

It was a grind. It was both an opportunity and an exhausting playland, because we loved it also. You know, the fact that I was a star performer, and still am, one has to realize that you don’t do that in a vacuum. In order to be a star performer you have to have someone to play against, and there are brilliant performers that I play against.

(continued below…)

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