Comments on: Masters Of Song Fu #1: Final Challenge Voting Begins http://asitecalledfred.com/2008/07/24/masters-of-song-fu-1-final-challenge-voting-begins/ Tue, 29 Nov 2016 17:36:17 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.9.4 By: Spiffworld | Blog » Live http://asitecalledfred.com/2008/07/24/masters-of-song-fu-1-final-challenge-voting-begins/comment-page-2/#comment-8053 Tue, 19 Aug 2008 15:45:08 +0000 http://www.quickstopentertainment.com/?p=7264#comment-8053 […] you can be forgiven for thinking it actually is a Jonathan Coulton song. It was written for the “Master of Song-Fu” songwriting competition. The challenge put to both Jonathan Coulton and Paul and Storm in that […]

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By: Dave http://asitecalledfred.com/2008/07/24/masters-of-song-fu-1-final-challenge-voting-begins/comment-page-2/#comment-7543 Mon, 04 Aug 2008 19:41:51 +0000 http://www.quickstopentertainment.com/?p=7264#comment-7543 My last paragraph was somehow clipped, here it is.

As for “Bowie says “Planet Earth is blue,”” drugs allow one to escape the reality of the world. In 1968 we had the assassinations of DR. Martin Luther King and Robert Kennedy. The Vietnam was going strong and British troops were sent in to take streets of Northern Ireland. The world was not a happy place. “Planet earth was blue.”

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By: Dave http://asitecalledfred.com/2008/07/24/masters-of-song-fu-1-final-challenge-voting-begins/comment-page-2/#comment-7490 Sun, 03 Aug 2008 19:52:52 +0000 http://www.quickstopentertainment.com/?p=7264#comment-7490 ll make one last comment. Perhaps it would help if I explained what I think Bowie’s songs are about. Bowie puts a lot of hidden meaning in his work, to get a good Idea of what that meaning is, will require listening to several one of his songs but let me see if I can get the gist of it across with just Two songs, Space oddity and Ashes to Ashes. Listen to both songs, print the lyrics and then read the rest of this. Bowie writes about a Spaceman but his songs are realy about drug addiction and his personal struggle with it. In Space Oddity, Think of Major Tom as a metaphor for drugs, heroin most likely. Think of Ground control as the drug dealer. Think of the trip to space as tripping out on drugs. Think of “I’m floating in a most peculiar way” and “the stars look different today” as being high on drugs. Think of “my space ship knows which way to go” and “There is nothing I can do” as the drugs are in control. Eleven years later, in Ashes to Ashes, Bowie is much clearer about the drug connection, “We know Major Toms a Junkie Strung out in the heavens high hitting an all time low.” And “Time and again I tell myself I’ll stay clean tonight” and “I want to come down right now” and at the end bowie repeats 4 times “My mother said to get things done you’d better not mess with Major Tom.” There is more but I hope you can see why I thought Jeff’s “High” was the better reimagining and homage especially when Jeff left in the two lines, although reversed in order, “And the stars look very different Today” “And I’m floating in a most peculiar way.” and added “I’m high!” I don’t know if Jeff intended the double meaning but I’ll give it to him. If you want more on the drug connection in Bowie’s songs, check out the lyrics to Bowie’s China Girl. Here are a few, “I could escape this feeling, with my china girl I feel a wreck without my, little china girl I hear her heart beating, loud as thunder Saw the stars crashing I’m a mess without my, little china girl Wake up mornings where’s my, little china girl……” Get the idea? There is a lot hidden meaning in Bowie’s work perhaps this one is relevant. In Ashes to Ashes Bowie gives us a clue to the identity of the person that inspired him to use “Major Tom” as his metaphor for drugs that have wrecked havoc on the world. He wrote “Just pictures of Jap girls in synthesis (a synonym for Fusion)….aint got no hair (radiation sickness)….the planet is glowing….one flash of light but no smoking gun.” (atomic explosion.) Was Bowie thinking of Major Tom Ferebee the bombardier on the Enola Gay? Major Tom Ferebee pulled the lever that dropped the first Atomic Bomb; he watched through the bomb sight as it went off and wrecked havoc on Japan killing thousands instantly and thousands more very slowly. If this makes me a “rabid” Bowie fan, so be it.]]> Ok, I’ll make one last comment. Perhaps it would help if I explained what I think Bowie’s songs are about. Bowie puts a lot of hidden meaning in his work, to get a good Idea of what that meaning is, will require listening to several one of his songs but let me see if I can get the gist of it across with just Two songs, Space oddity and Ashes to Ashes. Listen to both songs, print the lyrics and then read the rest of this.

Bowie writes about a Spaceman but his songs are realy about drug addiction and his personal struggle with it. In Space Oddity, Think of Major Tom as a metaphor for drugs, heroin most likely. Think of Ground control as the drug dealer. Think of the trip to space as tripping out on drugs. Think of “I’m floating in a most peculiar way” and “the stars look different today” as being high on drugs. Think of “my space ship knows which way to go” and “There is nothing I can do” as the drugs are in control. Eleven years later, in Ashes to Ashes, Bowie is much clearer about the drug connection, “We know Major Toms a Junkie Strung out in the heavens high hitting an all time low.” And “Time and again I tell myself I’ll stay clean tonight” and “I want to come down right now” and at the end bowie repeats 4 times “My mother said to get things done you’d better not mess with Major Tom.” There is more but I hope you can see why I thought Jeff’s “High” was the better reimagining and homage especially when Jeff left in the two lines, although reversed in order, “And the stars look very different Today” “And I’m floating in a most peculiar way.” and added “I’m high!” I don’t know if Jeff intended the double meaning but I’ll give it to him.

If you want more on the drug connection in Bowie’s songs, check out the lyrics to Bowie’s China Girl. Here are a few, “I could escape this feeling, with my china girl I feel a wreck without my, little china girl I hear her heart beating, loud as thunder Saw the stars crashing I’m a mess without my, little china girl Wake up mornings where’s my, little china girl……” Get the idea?

There is a lot hidden meaning in Bowie’s work perhaps this one is relevant. In Ashes to Ashes Bowie gives us a clue to the identity of the person that inspired him to use “Major Tom” as his metaphor for drugs that have wrecked havoc on the world. He wrote “Just pictures of Jap girls in synthesis (a synonym for Fusion)….aint got no hair (radiation sickness)….the planet is glowing….one flash of light but no smoking gun.” (atomic explosion.) Was Bowie thinking of Major Tom Ferebee the bombardier on the Enola Gay? Major Tom Ferebee pulled the lever that dropped the first Atomic Bomb; he watched through the bomb sight as it went off and wrecked havoc on Japan killing thousands instantly and thousands more very slowly.

If this makes me a “rabid” Bowie fan, so be it.

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By: Cambiata http://asitecalledfred.com/2008/07/24/masters-of-song-fu-1-final-challenge-voting-begins/comment-page-2/#comment-7451 Sat, 02 Aug 2008 01:46:56 +0000 http://www.quickstopentertainment.com/?p=7264#comment-7451 Oh yeah, and Bowie says “Planet Earth is blue”, so he must be human – or at least launched by Earth. I still think it would have been cool for one of the contestants to make the song about an inhabitant of another planet, thus changing species in a different way and throwing people into a tizzy.

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By: Major Jim http://asitecalledfred.com/2008/07/24/masters-of-song-fu-1-final-challenge-voting-begins/comment-page-2/#comment-7446 Fri, 01 Aug 2008 19:16:14 +0000 http://www.quickstopentertainment.com/?p=7264#comment-7446 Jeff, you really made the grade.
Love,
Ground Control

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By: Dave http://asitecalledfred.com/2008/07/24/masters-of-song-fu-1-final-challenge-voting-begins/comment-page-1/#comment-7444 Fri, 01 Aug 2008 18:16:18 +0000 http://www.quickstopentertainment.com/?p=7264#comment-7444 We know he was a man because he was asked by ground control who’s shirt he wore. That’s British slang for what soccer team do you support?

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By: Cambiata http://asitecalledfred.com/2008/07/24/masters-of-song-fu-1-final-challenge-voting-begins/comment-page-1/#comment-7443 Fri, 01 Aug 2008 17:59:42 +0000 http://www.quickstopentertainment.com/?p=7264#comment-7443 Well, just out of curiosity, what if they had changed the planetary species of Tom? What if they made him a gender-neutral tiny green person from Alpha Centauri? Would that have violated the rules? For that matter, how do we even know if the ORGINAL Tom was a man in the sense of being human. For all we know, he might be one of the featureless blue Gods of the Andromeda galaxy. Nothing about where he’s actually from (or when) is specified in the original song. Which, in my humble opinion, is part of it’s beauty.

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By: Dave http://asitecalledfred.com/2008/07/24/masters-of-song-fu-1-final-challenge-voting-begins/comment-page-1/#comment-7417 Fri, 01 Aug 2008 00:03:32 +0000 http://www.quickstopentertainment.com/?p=7264#comment-7417 Gerry, Thanks for the support but as you say the point is moot. Just for the record, Laika was a female, all Russian space dogs were female because they peed in a more predictable fashion. Laika was the only one that was sent on a one-way trip with no hope of ever returning alive. Sad.

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By: Dave http://asitecalledfred.com/2008/07/24/masters-of-song-fu-1-final-challenge-voting-begins/comment-page-1/#comment-7406 Thu, 31 Jul 2008 19:43:51 +0000 http://www.quickstopentertainment.com/?p=7264#comment-7406 It’s clear to me that writing music about the space industry is a whole lot different than designing parts to extremely rigid specifications. Sorry if I took the “specs” too literally and I apologize if I offended anyone. The music was great and the discussion eye opening. Good luck to both Jonathan and Jeff with their music endeavors. When I think about Bowie releasing Space oddity in conjunction with the Apollo 11 moon landing I can’t help thinking what a risk he took. Had something bad happened on that mission Bowie’s song would have been pulled off the air and buried forever. Congrats to both of you for your songs and your willingness to risk entering a contest like this.

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By: Gerry http://asitecalledfred.com/2008/07/24/masters-of-song-fu-1-final-challenge-voting-begins/comment-page-1/#comment-7404 Thu, 31 Jul 2008 18:41:55 +0000 http://www.quickstopentertainment.com/?p=7264#comment-7404 Major Tom as a woman would have been a good reimagining as well but changing gender is one thing. Changing species is completely different. The term ‘manpower’ is considered gender neutral these days and Man, Woman and Human are usually pretty interchangeable as well. Dog doesn’t really fit in there.
Rules are by definition literal. Would it also be okay if one of them had sent in a painting of Major Tom in space instead? An interpretive dance maybe? Rules should be followed as stated because it looks like JeMac limited himself to all the rules pretty strictly and that JoCo bent one, albeit in the well intended spirit of following a separate one.
I’m very literal by personality and trade so I’m sure that affects this perspective. I’ll shut up at this point cos its moot in the vote. Maybe this is just a justification to me for why my choice isn’t ahead, as I think he should be, but unlike those folks in that other election, this case won’t go to the Supreme Court (anyways, I don’t think Ken P. would touch this with a ten foot Snyder…). ~gerry

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By: Cambiata http://asitecalledfred.com/2008/07/24/masters-of-song-fu-1-final-challenge-voting-begins/comment-page-1/#comment-7377 Thu, 31 Jul 2008 04:40:18 +0000 http://www.quickstopentertainment.com/?p=7264#comment-7377 Eh, I think you guys are taking the rules too literally. If one of the two had made Major Tom into a woman, would that have been against the rules? I don’t think so. In my opinion, they only say ‘spaceman’ for lack of a better generic term. ‘Space person’ sounds retarded. And the term astronaut is far too regional.

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By: SaganGathering http://asitecalledfred.com/2008/07/24/masters-of-song-fu-1-final-challenge-voting-begins/comment-page-1/#comment-7370 Thu, 31 Jul 2008 03:27:44 +0000 http://www.quickstopentertainment.com/?p=7264#comment-7370 I just now heard about this musical contest, thanks to an Eric Schwartz video about the Amiga using the song “Still Alive”. I hit the songwriter’s site which directed me here.

The SAS site is under construction but on it there are already references to monkeys and dogs being exploited for space research.

These songs are good in different ways. As a Laika sympathizer, JoCo’s lyrics won me over by a nose. A wet nose.

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By: Gerry http://asitecalledfred.com/2008/07/24/masters-of-song-fu-1-final-challenge-voting-begins/comment-page-1/#comment-7368 Thu, 31 Jul 2008 01:53:54 +0000 http://www.quickstopentertainment.com/?p=7264#comment-7368 Not until Dave pointed it out did I re-read the rules more fully. Its true that he doesn’t have a spaceman in his song and that is listed as a basic point. It is definitely a good and complete reimagining though which was also a requirement… hmmm… this is a quandry to say the least…

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By: Dave http://asitecalledfred.com/2008/07/24/masters-of-song-fu-1-final-challenge-voting-begins/comment-page-1/#comment-7367 Thu, 31 Jul 2008 01:32:27 +0000 http://www.quickstopentertainment.com/?p=7264#comment-7367 t because I’m a rabid fan" and you did not quote the entire statement "You will be judged on how closely your reimagining hits the basic “story points” - spaceman goes up, spaceman talks with control, spaceman goes for a walk, spaceman disappears - but beyond that, anything goes. "BEYOND THAT ANYTHING GOES" You may be right about Bowie's legacy but I certainly did not find either song boring.]]> Cambiata, Sorry I miss under stood your comment “And it actually isn’t because I’m a rabid fan” and you did not quote the entire statement “You will be judged on how closely your reimagining hits the basic “story points” – spaceman goes up, spaceman talks with control, spaceman goes for a walk, spaceman disappears – but beyond that, anything goes. “BEYOND THAT ANYTHING GOES” You may be right about Bowie’s legacy but I certainly did not find either song boring.

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By: Steven BREWER http://asitecalledfred.com/2008/07/24/masters-of-song-fu-1-final-challenge-voting-begins/comment-page-1/#comment-7366 Thu, 31 Jul 2008 01:06:55 +0000 http://www.quickstopentertainment.com/?p=7264#comment-7366 I like JoCo’s song better — they’re both good, but his hits me where it counts.

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By: Cambiata http://asitecalledfred.com/2008/07/24/masters-of-song-fu-1-final-challenge-voting-begins/comment-page-1/#comment-7365 Thu, 31 Jul 2008 01:00:24 +0000 http://www.quickstopentertainment.com/?p=7264#comment-7365 Actually, it’s kind of interesting… it sounds like you’re telling me you *are* a rabid fan, of Bowie. And as such, you don’t like his legacy toyed with, which possibly makes it difficult for you to be objective in the choosing of the song. In any case, “anything goes” does not mean “follow Bowie’s plot exactly”, which is good, because that would have been boring.

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By: Cambiata http://asitecalledfred.com/2008/07/24/masters-of-song-fu-1-final-challenge-voting-begins/comment-page-1/#comment-7364 Thu, 31 Jul 2008 00:54:15 +0000 http://www.quickstopentertainment.com/?p=7264#comment-7364 Er, I thought I made it clear that I’m not a rabid fan?

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By: Dave http://asitecalledfred.com/2008/07/24/masters-of-song-fu-1-final-challenge-voting-begins/comment-page-1/#comment-7357 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 18:16:54 +0000 http://www.quickstopentertainment.com/?p=7264#comment-7357 s song is not just a tweak of the original. As for being too much like Bowie’s actual song and style that's where homage (something that shows respect or attests to the worth or influence of another) comes in. I think it must have been more difficult to stay with a spaceman and not come up with what would be perceived as a tweaked original than it was to switch the main character to a space dog, a real dog at that, and write essentially a new song about a real space dog and place that character in similar circumstances. Don't get me wrong, it was a very creative song but I disagree that to “completely reimagine that song with your own lyrics and music” means "do your own take” and toss out the main character. Jeff got to the finals by writing a song about pudding, had he written it about Jell-O instead would that have mattered? Jonathan got to the finals by writing a song in the style of his opponent, would it have mattered if he wrote that song in his own style? Perhaps I am reading the challenge and it's judging guidelines too literally. "For this final duel between Master and Challenger, we’re going to combine a little bit of all the previous challenges." I interpret the challenge to mean this song was supposed to be a song about a spaceman in the style of David Bowie with your own lyrics and music. I also liked both songs and I don't want to take anything away from Jonathan's creativity but I do think the challenge meant to limit the bounds of that creativity "For this ultimate show of skill, adaptability, and personality" adaptability is the key word here. You say you are a "rabid fan" of Jonathan's well, I'm a fan of Bowie, I was around on July 20, 1969 when the Eagle landed and Bowie released his song in the UK; I’ve also been a fan of Major Tom and although disappointed when Jeff demoted him to a civilian, replacing him with a dog went too far.]]> Cambiata, At least we agree that Jeff’s song is not just a tweak of the original. As for being too much like Bowie’s actual song and style that’s where homage (something that shows respect or attests to the worth or influence of another) comes in. I think it must have been more difficult to stay with a spaceman and not come up with what would be perceived as a tweaked original than it was to switch the main character to a space dog, a real dog at that, and write essentially a new song about a real space dog and place that character in similar circumstances. Don’t get me wrong, it was a very creative song but I disagree that to “completely reimagine that song with your own lyrics and music” means “do your own take” and toss out the main character. Jeff got to the finals by writing a song about pudding, had he written it about Jell-O instead would that have mattered? Jonathan got to the finals by writing a song in the style of his opponent, would it have mattered if he wrote that song in his own style? Perhaps I am reading the challenge and it’s judging guidelines too literally. “For this final duel between Master and Challenger, we’re going to combine a little bit of all the previous challenges.” I interpret the challenge to mean this song was supposed to be a song about a spaceman in the style of David Bowie with your own lyrics and music. I also liked both songs and I don’t want to take anything away from Jonathan’s creativity but I do think the challenge meant to limit the bounds of that creativity “For this ultimate show of skill, adaptability, and personality” adaptability is the key word here. You say you are a “rabid fan” of Jonathan’s well, I’m a fan of Bowie, I was around on July 20, 1969 when the Eagle landed and Bowie released his song in the UK; I’ve also been a fan of Major Tom and although disappointed when Jeff demoted him to a civilian, replacing him with a dog went too far.

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By: Cambiata http://asitecalledfred.com/2008/07/24/masters-of-song-fu-1-final-challenge-voting-begins/comment-page-1/#comment-7345 Wed, 30 Jul 2008 03:29:22 +0000 http://www.quickstopentertainment.com/?p=7264#comment-7345 Hmm, maybe my preference has to do with how I read the challenge. To do your own take on someone else’s song means to *make it your own*. Being too much like Bowie’s actual song, in that context, seems more of a liability than an asset; it says that you really don’t have the creativity to remake the song in your own image, you can just tweak the original. Mind you, I *don’t* think that’s what Jeff did this time, I just think that being too much like Bowie’s song was not a point in his favor.

Also? I really just liked JoCo’s song better. And it actually isn’t because I’m a rabid fan and I didn’t have to work a little to make the choice. I, too, listened to both songs over and over again and found it a tough choice. Space Doggity simply appealed to me more.

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By: crazy diamond http://asitecalledfred.com/2008/07/24/masters-of-song-fu-1-final-challenge-voting-begins/comment-page-1/#comment-7342 Tue, 29 Jul 2008 20:31:40 +0000 http://www.quickstopentertainment.com/?p=7264#comment-7342 don’t make me choose! i love them both!

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